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James Horner's TITANIC (2017 4CD expanded edition from La-La Land Records)

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Partly agree, but I still think that the way some people hate Cameron because he dared mess with sacred James Horner's music unjustified. For me, 90% of the film edit just works brilliantly and once I had watched the film, it became rather difficult to adjust to what Horner originally had in mind.

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The score works because that's what people are used to. But does it really truly work? Every time I've ever put the music back as intended it works even better. Especially cues like "Leaving Port" and the unreleased battle cues in "Avatar". 

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are we talking about the original score or this new release now?

 

(besides with Avatar I can most certainly say I prefer none of the film edits)

 

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On 2/10/2018 at 3:40 PM, NL197 said:

In the case of the Suicide Attempt it's not so much an alternate as it is just the same cue with the synths dialed out. 

 

I skimmed through the film after purchasing it on YouTube, and if you listen closely, you can still hear the synths in that cue.

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On 12/6/2017 at 12:53 PM, NL197 said:

 

For Titanic there are minor differences between the film and the live performance, letting certain pieces play longer (Southampton has its entire middle section dialed out in the film but plays through in the live performance) and the source music is also performed live with the score. 

 

Don't forget.  "Trapped on D deck" had its ending removed in the film but plays through in the live performance.

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11 hours ago, TitanicFan2018 said:

 

But "The Beacon" is available for purchase on iTunes.

 

I skimmed through the film after purchasing it on YouTube, and if you listen closely, you can still hear the synths in that cue.

 

The point was not to list where pieces could be found elsewhere. The point was that it wasn’t included in the live performance film stem leak. 

 

“Dialed out” doesn’t always mean removed entirely. Sometimes it’s  more a remix of the elements to quiet some down. Sometimes it’s dialing the element out by fading it away. YouTube? Blu-ray or DVD not superior enough?

9 hours ago, TitanicFan2018 said:

 

Don't forget.  "Trapped on D deck" had its ending removed in the film but plays through in the live performance.

 

I said certain pieces. I mentioned one as an example.  Sounds like the only thing you’re interested in is trying to one-up or counter everything I’ve said. Good for you. 

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I wish my live concert had taken place after this release came out. Would have been awesome to compare all the music as heard in the film and in concert (I had only watched Titanic once).

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I'm not one of your foremen in your mills that you can command! Long story short, I have only been watching films since 2011 after accidentally discovering audio description (I'm blind), so I've been trying to fill cultural holes at top speed since then by picking two films from the TV guide that seem interesting every week. Titanic just came up rather late, I guess.

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I watched Titanic a lot since 1998; first we rented it from my local grocery store (it was a 2-VHS set at the time), and then my sister got a set of her own.  She also recorded the movie off a blank VHS tape when it aired on NBC in late 2000.

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In 1998, I bought the VHS gift set, which included lobby cards and a 35mm cell. As soon as the first DVD came out in 1999, at a whopping $49.95 for a 4:3 letterbox transfer with no significant extras, I dived on that. Then of course the 4-disc DVD, and the 2012 blu-ray set, including the 3-D and 2-D transfers.

 

All I ever missed was that friggin bigger-than-doorframe sized framed poster that was at the picture shop in the late 90s. I swear I'll find it someday. I always seem to find the things I wanted when I was younger.

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16 hours ago, NL197 said:

 

The point was not to list where pieces could be found elsewhere. The point was that it wasn’t included in the live performance film stem leak. 

 

“Dialed out” doesn’t always mean removed entirely. Sometimes it’s  more a remix of the elements to quiet some down. Sometimes it’s dialing the element out by fading it away. YouTube? Blu-ray or DVD not superior enough?

 

I said certain pieces. I mentioned one as an example.  Sounds like the only thing you’re interested in is trying to one-up or counter everything I’ve said. Good for you. 

 

 

I see.  Well you have a point here.

 

I've also been interested in the other unreleased cues, especially the aforementioned version of "Hard to Starboard" that was heard in the film but not even released on the LLL album.  Another track not on the LLL release is Horner's other arrangement of the "Rakish Paddy" reel for Heaven Help Us (it's on that soundtrack), which was heard when Jack and Fabrizio were dashing towards the ship just as it was about to depart, and when Jack and Rose were running in the boiler room.

 

Oh, and by the way, I noticed that in the film, the middle section of "Southampton" plays at a slower tempo and has wind chimes heard at the beginning just as the key modulates to B major.

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Just found out that the slowed down middle section in the "Southampton" film edit with the percussion at the beginning is indeed taken from the "Trailer" track.  My mistake.

 

That being said, I too have created an album of the film mixes for my iPhone.  And I even edited them such that they are a more enjoyable listening experience than the butchered edits in the final film.  Below are the tracks I created for my album in the order based on the music heard in particular scenes.

 

1. Opening Titles, 2 1/2 Miles Down - used "A Promise Kept (Alternate)" as the intro, recreated the "Violin Tool Kit" and "Wild Piano" cues myself, recreated the synth string cue heard right before the thumping bass line in "2 1/2 Miles Down (Alternate)" towards the end, used the synth choir from "A Promise Kept" OST version where "Drone and Chord" was placed in the final film edit, crossfades into "To The Keldysh" at the end

2. Rose Revealed - no crossfade

3. Distant Memories - a couple of cuts, first section repeats

4. My Drawing, Relics & Treasures - only cut in "My Drawing" is in the beginning, crossfaded into "Butterfly Comb"

5. Southampton - only a couple cuts, includes all of the middle section, trailer music mixed in

6. The Winning Ticket  - edited "A Lucky Hand" from Heaven Help Us to closer match "Lovejoy Chases Jack"

7. Leaving Port 

8. Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch - amped up the thumping bass line by recreating it in GarageBand, and then delicately added it back into my custom film edit

9. First Sighting, Rose's Suicide Attempt  - second part beginning with "2 1/2 Miles Down", crossfading into "Rose's Suicide", then into the OST version of "A Promise Kept"

10. Jack Saves Rose - cuts in a couple of places

11. The Heart of the Ocean - segue with "2 1/2 Miles Down", crossfades into "Rose's Suicide" with former overlapping near the end

12. The Promenade - just 40 seconds of that track

13. Rose - crossfades into the OST version in two spots because Sissel's voice is better heard, at "the big moment" mixed in a fan-made edit of the OST cue that features only Sissel's vocals and the flute

15. The Portrait - the first minute and 45 seconds of Horner's demo

16. Lovejoy Chases Jack and Rose - second part is material from Heaven Help Us

17. Lovemaking - second part I got from another fan-made edit that was ripped from the film: the ending of "Rose" with the flute pitched up an octave, sound effects dialed out

18. Hard To Starboard - few cuts, mixed in with "Hard To Starboard (Alternate)" in places, used a similar whooshing sound effect to the the one heard when the iceberg is spotted

19. Rose Frees Jack - achieved a clean beginning by using "A Building Panic (Album Suite)", mixed it in with "A Building Panic (Film Version)", then crossfaded it into "2 1/2 Miles Down", included the piano entrance in "Rose's Suicide Attempt" to emulate Rose freeing Jack with the axe

20. A Building Panic - crossfaded "A Building Panic (Film Version)" into "Trapped on 'D' Deck" and then into "Hard To Starboard" with the "Al Bathra" cue from Courage Under Fire overlapping it, created a clean ending by looping the last chord of the intro in "A Building Panic (Film Version)"

21. Women and Children First - crossfaded the intro in "Trapped on 'D' Deck" into "A Building Panic (Film Version)", "Rose's Suicide Attempt" repeating at the end

22. Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave - used jointy95's edit where he dialed out the dialogue

23. Trapped on 'D' Deck - created a clean beginning, crossfaded into "Hard To Starboard" midway through, then crossfaded into "Trapped on 'D' Deck" (6:30 to end), included the entire coda (as heard in "Titanic Live" performances)

24. The Sinking, Death of Titanic - used "A Building Panic (Album Suite)" for when the big choral theme returned because I think the whooshing sound effects work

25. A Promise Kept - recreated the synth choir overlaying the low brass in the first half, no cuts, crossfaded into "A Promise Kept (Alternate)", recreated the "Drone and Chord" cue overlaying the synth flutes, used Michael Stearns' "The Beacon" in place of the screechy synth bridge before Sissel's vocals

26. A Life So Changed - first half only

27. A Woman's Heart is a Deep Ocean of Secrets

28. An Ocean of Memories - used the string cue from "Relics & Treasures" for when "Rose (Alternate)" crossfades into "Unable To Stay, Unwilling to Leave", used flute ending from jointy95's edit

29. My Heart Will Go On - ripped the intro from the film, crossfaded it into the OST version

30. Post - used the synth choir from "A Promise Kept" OST version to bridge second half of "Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch" film version with the closing to "Hymn To The Sea"

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I like some of the film edits, very few of them. The majority I just wash my hands of. 

 

For me I like more of the film mixes, which everyone seems to confuse. Mixes meaning cues like "Rose", which has its elements mixed differently in film compared to the OST and the intended version. Film edits are often terrible, like "Leaving Port" which butchers the Uilleann pipe "Heaven Help Us" section. I recreated the "Southampton" film edit, but without truncating the first half or fading the string section. I just liked how the trailer music was used in its place because the slower tempo added some grandeur to the shot of Rose under her huge hat.

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On 6/18/2018 at 11:13 PM, NL197 said:

I like some of the film edits, very few of them. The majority I just wash my hands of. 

 

For me I like more of the film mixes, which everyone seems to confuse. Mixes meaning cues like "Rose", which has its elements mixed differently in film compared to the OST and the intended version. Film edits are often terrible, like "Leaving Port" which butchers the Uilleann pipe "Heaven Help Us" section. I recreated the "Southampton" film edit, but without truncating the first half or fading the string section. I just liked how the trailer music was used in its place because the slower tempo added some grandeur to the shot of Rose under her huge hat.

 

"Rose" Alternate on the LLL album sounds very similar to the film version, and the differences seemed very subtle to me when listening to both versions.  But can you chime in on that one (regarding which elements are mixed in differently in the film version and the alt. version on LLL)?  

 

I have to agree that even I don't like a lot of the film edits; most of them don't flow musically.  That's why when I recreated them, I edited them such that they sound more like pieces of music to enjoy, much like how the score was arranged for "Titanic Live" performances, than just film cues jumbled together.  And in a couple edits, I even added in the beginning or the ending of a cue.

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The film mix of "Rose" is different to the LLL cue, in two key areas: 

-Sissel's voice in the LLL seems to be more distant, at times drowned out by the surrounding instruments as if the center channel was muted and all you have are her vocals reverberating in the stereo channels. It's the same in the "Main Title" which is literally the exact same recording as "A Promise Kept", but missing that center mix. 

 

When I did my own custom assembly of the score, I took the 5.1 channel version of "Rose" and added back in (delicately) Sissel's vocal so it wouldn't be as drowned out in that LLL cue. 

 

-The harp is all over the stereo mix of the LLL version and it appears as though two harps are playing through that big moment in the music where Sissel's voice soars ("I'm flying! Jack!")
whereas in the film mix there seems to be only one, and it's primarily on the right channel. 

 

In addition to that some of the synth work is more subdued on the film mix versus the LLL cue. All in all I'd honestly say the film mix of that piece of music is better. 

 

 

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Another film edit I don't particularly care for is the final trailer music.  What Horner intended would have worked better than crossfading the trailer music into "Al Bathra" from Courage Under Fire.  After listening to the trailer music on the LLL album, I thought "Al Bathra" was a bit too heavy.  And.I would've preferred to use what Horner intended, albeit with a couple cuts, because you hear the love theme motif playing through the end of the piece.

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On 6/20/2018 at 8:59 PM, NL197 said:

The film mix of "Rose" is different to the LLL cue, in two key areas: 

-Sissel's voice in the LLL seems to be more distant, at times drowned out by the surrounding instruments as if the center channel was muted and all you have are her vocals reverberating in the stereo channels. It's the same in the "Main Title" which is literally the exact same recording as "A Promise Kept", but missing that center mix. 

 

When I did my own custom assembly of the score, I took the 5.1 channel version of "Rose" and added back in (delicately) Sissel's vocal so it wouldn't be as drowned out in that LLL cue. 

 

-The harp is all over the stereo mix of the LLL version and it appears as though two harps are playing through that big moment in the music where Sissel's voice soars ("I'm flying! Jack!")
whereas in the film mix there seems to be only one, and it's primarily on the right channel. 

 

In addition to that some of the synth work is more subdued on the film mix versus the LLL cue. All in all I'd honestly say the film mix of that piece of music is better. 

 

Other than the elements being mixed in differently, the film mix is the exact same recording as the LLL cue.  That's why the differences seemed subtle to me at first (whereas I noticed even more of a difference between either the film mix or the alternate LLL cue and the OST version).

 

 

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On 6/23/2018 at 5:10 AM, TitanicFan2018 said:

Another film edit I don't particularly care for is the final trailer music.  What Horner intended would have worked better than crossfading the trailer music into "Al Bathra" from Courage Under Fire.  After listening to the trailer music on the LLL album, I thought "Al Bathra" was a bit too heavy.  And.I would've preferred to use what Horner intended, albeit with a couple cuts, because you hear the love theme motif playing through the end of the piece.

 

I like how a few parts of it work - the transition from Horner's cue to CUF goes nicely with the transition from starting the voyage to the robbing. I also love how the percussion at the end works. However, the editing needed to sync everything is very jarring, and they only got away with it because of the dialogue/sfx.

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Hello, perhaps this isn't the right thread, but since is "titanic"....does anyone know what is music used in the TITANIC 3D/ Re-released (2012) trailer, what is the first one, I know the second is Southampton, and the a little bit of Leaving port and the third is Celine Dion - My Heart Will Go On....but I want to know the first one. I've searched in many different sites, including Shazam and tunefind...but no results :( hope someone help ;)

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2 hours ago, Jokerslb said:

Hello, perhaps this isn't the right thread, but since is "titanic"....does anyone know what is music used in the TITANIC 3D/ Re-released (2012) trailer, what is the first one, I know the second is Southampton, and the a little bit of Leaving port and the third is Celine Dion - My Heart Will Go On....but I want to know the first one. I've searched in many different sites, including Shazam and tunefind...but no results :( hope someone help ;)

 

The first one is just a synth string cue and then crossfades into the OST version of "Southampton".  Perhaps NL would know better, but highly doubt it's part of the score.  The re-release trailer also used the radio version of "My Heart Will Go On", not the soundtrack/film version.

 

 

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12 hours ago, NL197 said:

For the introduction and the tolling bells, right? That's likely some generic library music because it certainly isn't part of the score. 

 

Yes, it's the introduction with that tolling bells, I know isn't part of the score, because if it was, Iwould  definitly recognize, but thanks , if anyone finds...thank you anyway.

 

12 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Indeed. Why would you even want that?

Well, I DON'T need it, like my life is depended on it... nothing is gonna happen to me, just curious, that's all....

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I think that bit sounds rather nice. In fact, if I knew which library they used I'd probably try to find it (I look for a lot of library music).

 

Although the bells would certainly narrow it down

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I suppose the synchronisation with the text would suggest that. I've heard a lot of library tracks with added effects though. Could go either way.

 

If Shazam (etc) doesn't work then it's pretty unlikely we'll identify this one as there are hundreds of libraries out there and we could be hearing an underscore version.

 

Similar passage again from 1:10, with a more obvious trailer buildup.

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On 7/3/2018 at 8:42 AM, Batman's Diet Coke said:

I still can't believe the LLL set didn't include "My Heart Will Go On".

 

It's only a small disappointment that "My Heart Will Go On" wasn't included, but it was already included on a lot of previous releases, including the Collector's Edition that got released in 2012 when the film was shown in 3D.  That alone doesn't bother me.  What makes me disappointed is that the LLL release didn't include "Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave - New Ending" (I like listening to cues in their entirety rather than film edits).

 

Like NL, I don't mind film mixes like amping up the bass line in "Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch" or Sissel's voice in "Rose".  Most of the film edits are just jumbled and don't flow together musically.

And NL would likely know why the intro in "My Heart Will Go On" sounds different in film than on the OST, other than it being truncated.  I'm talking about stereo mixes here.

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I made a film mix version....and in the track Leaving Port....the film version is a mix of the Leaving Port Alternate with Southampton, but in the transition of the scene after jack and fabricio wave goodbye in the stern to the scene when the ship bow is heading toward the ocean there's an like cymbal effect that I can't recognize , with 5.1 channels is easy to listen the music , perhaps this is very confusing to understand...sorry 

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1 hour ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

The cymbal effect is the key to all of this.

 

Well if some people want to "try" to make a film version edit/mix every detail is important....clearly is not just a " cymbal"...is a track merged with other that make that effect, but don't know which is 

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On 2/22/2018 at 10:49 AM, NL197 said:

 

The film used "The Beacon" by Michael Stearns, and it's not in this film stem thing either.

 

Also, the concert stem edit of "A Promise Kept" is missing two other elements that are otherwise heard in the actual film edit.  In the film, you hear a choir synth mixed in with the trombones in the first half.  And in the second half, you hear "Drone and Chord" mixed in until "The Beacon" segues,  neither of which are in this concert stem.  The only time you hear "Drone and Chord" in the concert stem is in the modified edit of "2 1/2 Miles Down".

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