Memoirs of a Geisha & Seven Years in Tibet Remastered

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I'm filling some gaps in my collection: Seven Years in Tibet and Memoirs of a Geisha. These recordings were remastered when the lavish box of Yo-Yo Ma's complete Sony recordings came out, and in 2015 they were released on single discs. As we all know it varies how successful remasters are. Has anyone compared them with the original releases?

[mstrox 6,643]

Man, I didn't even know that they were remastered.  The sound on both (original) OSTs was great, in my opinion, so I doubt there would have been any meaningful change.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

1 minute ago, mstrox said:

Man, I didn't even know that they were remastered.

 

I'm wondering whether Bespin has gotten them registered in his discography.

[Bespin 8,475]

Honestly, I don't think it bother anyone on this forum.

 

I will wait for an expansion before buying again those "remastered" CDs...

 

I will add reissue notes in my discography... why not ;-)

 

 

[Jay 37,281]

The difference is barely noticeable.  They probably just slightly re-EQed the final album master.

 

This isn't anything like what MM does, where he has the first gen tapes transferred and rebuilds all the tracks again from that, etc.  It's just big labels doing their normal big label thing.

[publicist 4,643]

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

First, "Seven Years in Tibet" was not on the 30-CD box of Yo-Yo Ma released in 2009.  The previously unreleased performance recorded live in 2008 of the suite from Memoirs of a Geisha was.

 

The "Seven Years in Tibet", the track, was reissued on a 2011 compilation of Yo-Yo Ma.  Don't know if it were remastered.

After, it's true that if you look on amazon, the new CDs you may get of the those soundtracks have now the mention "(remastered)".

 

Honestly, I don't think it bother anyone on this forum.

 

I will wait for an expansion before buying again those "remastered" CDs...

 

But I can make some researches the next week-end, because, yes, maybe it would be a great addition to my discography.

 

But where to find the exact information?

 

 

 

The box was indeed released in 2009, but it contains all 90 CDs which was his whole Sony output up to that point. That includes the original soundtracks of both Tibet (CD 60) and Geisha (CD 86), remastered using DSD technology. As DSD didn't exist in 1997 they must have gone back to the PCM master file at least for Tibet. The whole box was remastered and it was overseen by Ma's regular producer Steven Epstein.

 

Each of the discs in the set has been re-evaluated and remastered using Sony's Direct Stream Digital (DSD) system and SBM direct - an exhaustive effort that has brought the highest standard in audio playback to the entire catalogue. Grammy-winning producer Steven Epstein, who has produced most of Ma's recordings since 1987, oversaw the remastering, working with engineers Richard King and Todd Whitelock, both also Grammy winners for their work on Ma's recordings.

 

http://sony.mediaroom.com/2009-08-07-Yo-Yo-Ma-30-Years-Outside-the-Box,1

 

Here's a short review with some info on the release:

 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Oct12/YoYoMa_30years_88697523072.htm

 

 

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

The difference is barely noticeable.  They probably just slightly re-EQed the final album master.

 

Have you actually compared the original releases and the remastered releases in CD quality?

[Jay 37,281]

I have not done a headphone test using the physical CDs or anything, but the remastered versions are on Spotify

 

https://open.spotify.com/album/4wcOu3JLqjWjcFpMwKS69C

 

https://open.spotify.com/album/4sMqJBrYm0HGnul9tqMTAD

 

And other digital platforms, of course.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

I have not done a headphone test using the physical CDs or anything, but the remastered versions are on Spotify

 

https://open.spotify.com/album/4wcOu3JLqjWjcFpMwKS69C

 

https://open.spotify.com/album/4sMqJBrYm0HGnul9tqMTAD

 

And other digital platforms, of course.

 

I've been an avid supporter of Spotify for ten years, but I don't think that's the best place to check the quality of the remaster. I hope they'll soon upgrade to CD quality!

[Bespin 8,475]

@Jurassic Shark You're right, I will edit my post, sorry.

 

Website updated... hum... hum... thanks! ;-)

 

Seven Years In Tibet [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1997, Sony Music/Mandalay Records, SK 60271; Ma, Gyuto Monks, Williams) Seven Years In Tibet; Young Dalai Lama And Ceremonial Chant; Leaving Ingrid; Peter's Rescue; Harrer's Journey; The Invasion; Reflections; Premonitions; Approaching The Summit; Palace Invitation; Heinrich's Odyssey; Quiet Moments; Regaining A Son; Seven Years In Tibet (Reprise).   (Reissued in 2012, Sony Classical, 88697561252, Remastered)

(Reissued in 2016 as 2-LP, Music On Vinyl, MOVATM086)

	Memoirs Of A Geisha [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (2005, Sony Classical, 82876747082; 82876-77857-2; Ma, Perlman, Yoshizawa, Ishigure, Hashibe, Williams) Sayuri's Theme; The Journey To The Hanamachi; Going To School; Brush On Silk; Chiyo's Prayer; Becoming A Geisha; Finding Satsu; The Chairman's Waltz; The Rooftops Of The Hanamachi; The Garden Meeting; Dr. Crab's Prize; Destiny's Path; A New Name... A New Life; The Fire Scene And The Coming Of War; As The Water...; Confluence; A Dream Discarded; Sayuri's Theme And End Credits.
	(Released in 2005 as "For Your Consideration" Academy Promo CD)
	(Reissued in 2012, Sony Classical, 886975628421, Remastered)
	(Reissued as 2-LP in 2016, Music On Vinyl, MOVATM074)

btw... this one too was remastered...

 

	Yo-Yo Ma Plays The Music Of John Williams (2002, Sony Classical, 89670; Ma, Recording Arts O of LA/Williams) Concerto for Cello; Elegy for Cello and Orchestra; Heartwood; Three Pieces for Solo Cello.   (Reissued in 2012, Sony Classical, 756145, Remastered) (Reissued in 2016 as a SACD, Sony Classical, SS 89670)
	(Reissued in 2017 as 2-LP, Music On Vinyl, MOVCL033)

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

10 hours ago, Bespin said:

@Jurassic Sharkbtw... this one too was remastered...

 

	Yo-Yo Ma Plays The Music Of John Williams (2002, Sony Classical, 89670; Ma, Recording Arts O of LA/Williams) Concerto for Cello; Elegy for Cello and Orchestra; Heartwood; Three Pieces for Solo Cello.   (Reissued in 2012, Sony Classical, 756145, Remastered) (Reissued in 2016 as a SACD, Sony Classical, SS 89670)
	(Reissued in 2017 as 2-LP, Music On Vinyl, MOVCL033)

 

Yes, I forgot about that. I like the Jurassic Park influence on his cello concerto.

 

Btw, is the Geish promo any different from the OST?

[artguy360 1,843]

The original Geisha CD release still and has always sounded fantastic. The mixing perfectly balances the full orchestra with the solo cello. Tracks like Becoming a Geisha really highlight the quality of the sound mix.

[Arpy 4,145]

Is the original still in print? I want to pick one up when I get the chance...

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Just now, Arpy said:

Is the original still in print? I want to pick one up when I get the chance...

 

It's probably not in print, but still possible to get.

[Bespin 8,475]

9 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Btw, is the Geish promo any different from the OST?

 

No same content.

 

Btw I have the "remastered" Version of the Yo-Yo Ma plays JW (I started collecting seriously on the late...). If someone wants to send me a track by flac of the original CD, I will be able to compare it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

10 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

No same content.

 

Btw I have the "remastered" Version of the Yo-Yo Ma plays JW. If someone wants to send me a track by flac of the original CD, I will be able to compare it.

 

If lossless WMA is OK I'll send it tonight (in about 8 hours).

[Bespin 8,475]

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

31 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I interpret that as a yes

[rough cut 1,714]

Cool! Share your findings here on the forum, Besp!

[Bespin 8,475]

Nobody here has the 2005 remastered CD versions of Tibet and Geisha?

[Jay 37,281]

Have you listened to them on Spotify, Bespin?  I provided the links earlier.

[Bespin 8,475]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Have you listened to them on Spotify, Bespin?  I provided the links earlier.

 

I can't compare music on... Spotify. I have to compare loseless files and to look at the waveforms.

[Jay 37,281]

Have fun!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

9 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I can't compare music on... Spotify. I have to compare loseless files and to look at the waveforms.

 

Ah, you just look at the waveform and translate it into music. You must be the chosen one.

[Bespin 8,475]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Ah, you just look at the waveform and translate it into music. You must be the chosen one.

 

Exactly, like the Matrix. Yeah, I actually can read the Matrix.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

 

I can't compare music on... Spotify. I have to compare loseless files and to look at the waveforms.

 

You should compare them to the remastered LPs. 

 

[Bespin 8,475]

If you want to live long here, don't ever use "remastered" and "LP" in the same sentence.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

19 minutes ago, Bespin said:

If you want to live long here, don't ever use "remastered" and "LP" in the same sentence.

 

Well, they actually exist.

[Bespin 8,475]

Yo-Yo Ma Plays the music of John Williams.

 

The original album on the top, the remastered version at the bottom.

 

I see very light differences in the waveform, but very light.  But hearing the two versions, I really can't tell what's the difference.

 

It's very light... 

 

 

 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

Seems to me the same kind of remastering the Star Wars SEs went through a couple of years ago. That time they didn’t just “remaster” them (again) after the initial release - they went through something called DSD mastering if I remember correctly. It sounds cool but has minimal impact on the sound quality compared to the original release.

[Jay 37,281]

48 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Seems to me the same kind of remastering the Star Wars SEs went through a couple of years ago. That time they didn’t just “remaster” them (again) after the initial release - they went through something called DSD mastering if I remember correctly. It sounds cool but has minimal impact on the sound quality compared to the original release.

 

On 11/28/2017 at 3:38 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

 

The box was indeed released in 2009, but it contains all 90 CDs which was his whole Sony output up to that point. That includes the original soundtracks of both Tibet (CD 60) and Geisha (CD 86), remastered using DSD technology. As DSD didn't exist in 1997 they must have gone back to the PCM master file at least for Tibet. The whole box was remastered and it was overseen by Ma's regular producer Steven Epstein.

 

Each of the discs in the set has been re-evaluated and remastered using Sony's Direct Stream Digital (DSD) system and SBM direct - an exhaustive effort that has brought the highest standard in audio playback to the entire catalogue. Grammy-winning producer Steven Epstein, who has produced most of Ma's recordings since 1987, oversaw the remastering, working with engineers Richard King and Todd Whitelock, both also Grammy winners for their work on Ma's recordings.

 

http://sony.mediaroom.com/2009-08-07-Yo-Yo-Ma-30-Years-Outside-the-Box,1

 

Here's a short review with some info on the release:

 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Oct12/YoYoMa_30years_88697523072.htm

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

8 hours ago, Bespin said:

Yo-Yo Ma Plays the music of John Williams.

 

The original album on the top, the remastered version at the bottom.

 

I see very light differences in the waveform, but very light.  But hearing the two versions, I really can't tell what's the difference.

 

It's very light... 

 

 

 

 

 

It's good the waveforms are similar; means no dynamic compression has been applied. Then I'll buy the remastered ones on sale. When it comes to noise tweaking it's usually not very visible in the time domain waveform.

[Bespin 8,475]

The background noise seems indentical to me.

[rough cut 1,714]

@Jay, I didn’t understand your post?

[Chewy 2,372]

18 hours ago, Bespin said:

Nobody here has the 2005 remastered CD versions of Tibet and Geisha?

I own the 2012 remaster of Geisha, is it what you ask for?

 

13 hours ago, Bespin said:

Yo-Yo Ma Plays the music of John Williams.

 

The original album on the top, the remastered version at the bottom.

 

I see very light differences in the waveform, but very light.  But hearing the two versions, I really can't tell what's the difference.

 

It's very light... 

 

 

 

 

When you have 2 tracks perfectly "offseted" in Audacity, you can invert one and mix both together, this will give you the exact differences between the two tracks (i.e. if the result is a perfect silence, this means the two tracks are exactly the same).

[Bespin 8,475]

Well I wrote they are not exactly the same. :-)

[Jay 37,281]

34 minutes ago, rough cut said:

@Jay, I didn’t understand your post?

 

Which one?

[rough cut 1,714]

It was just quotes?

[Jay 37,281]

You made a post saying you remembered something about DSD remastering on the Star Wars SEs.  I quoted a post that said that DSD was also used on these remasters.

[Arpy 4,145]

Am I the only one who understood the intention of Jay's quotes?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Am I the only one who understood the intention of Jay's quotes?

 

Nope, it was one of his usual in-your-face posts.

[Arpy 4,145]

You just jumped the Jurassic shark, Shark.

 

[mstrox 6,643]

Jason is totally extreme!

[Bespin 8,475]

For Geisha, I compared Chairman's Waltz.  The waveforms looks identical to me.

 

Frequencies analysis of the OST:

 

 

Frequencies analysis of the remastered version:

 

I only see a cut out of frequencies over 20000 Hz, so only your dog will notice the difference between the two versions.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

12 hours ago, Bespin said:

I only see a cut out of frequencies over 20000 Hz, so only your dog will notice the difference between the two versions.

 

Too bad, since it's my dogs favorite JW score, and I only have the remastered one...

[Chewy 2,372]

That 15.65 kHz noise can be heard on many many OSTs especially on Geisha and Munich, I still can't believe how the engineers never remove that old-TV sound from the recordings..

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

6 minutes ago, Chewy said:

That 15.65 kHz noise can be heard on many many OSTs especially on Geisha and Munich, I still can't believe how the engineers never remove that old TV sound from the recordings..

 

What do you mean by TV sound? It's a quite narrow peak.

 

@Bespin, do you know anything about the sound quality on the 2015 Best Selection album, from Decca Japan?

[Jim Ware 526]

22 hours ago, Jay said:

You made a post saying you remembered something about DSD remastering on the Star Wars SEs.  I quoted a post that said that DSD was also used on these remasters.

 

DSD remastering is pointless if they started with a 16/44 PCM digital master and the end result is a 16/44 CD.  For it to have any validity the starting point would have to be analogue tape or native DSD masters* and for the most benefit the end result would be an SACD.

 

*I'm confident that these scores weren't recorded using DSD - I can only think of three scores recorded with that technology and subsequently released on SACD.

 

[Jay 37,281]

Yep.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

1 hour ago, Jim Ware said:

 

DSD remastering is pointless if they started with a 16/44 PCM digital master and the end result is a 16/44 CD.  For it to have any validity the starting point would have to be analogue tape or native DSD masters* and for the most benefit the end result would be an SACD.

 

*I'm confident that these scores weren't recorded using DSD - I can only think of three scores recorded with that technology and subsequently released on SACD.

 

 

Upsampling can be used to shift distortions up to higher frequencies, which makes them easier to filter. There's an article by Mark Levison on the subject.

 

And it's also possible that they have a "pre album master" with a higher bit-rate and sample frequency than 16/44, which can be used as the basis for the DSD remastering.