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Close Encounters of the Third Kind - La-La Land MUSIC Discussion

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Received my copy up in Toronto during the holidays and was able to listen a few days ago. As someone who grew up with my favourite record being the Arista LP - the music was so inspiring but the sound was a bit of a mess even by 70s-80s era standards - there was no way for me to really prepare for the revelation of Matessino's new version. Blown away. Reading that the transfers were done from 16-track masters and then hearing all of this detail I never had before suggests to me that it's not only a remaster but a proper remix as well, i.e. radically different (and welcome) balances. At least in some cases on CD1 (ex. Barry's Kidnapping). Has this been confirmed?

Thanks as well to whomever created the chrono playlist. I'm currently favouring it, although with the inclusion of Inside and the wild Visions (CD1 track 1). Watching the Skies sounds so fresh, like it could've been tracked on the 2016 film Arrival and fit right in. The whole thing just feels like the proverbial room in your house you never knew was there... hopefully containing a closet with the Dracula masters inside, back from the dead! 

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

I agree with that!

 

I think it would be neat if the 40th BD had an easter egg fourth cut that basically combined all the footage from all 3 cuts into one longest possible cut.  Would be great if they cleaned up the deleted scenes and integrated those into this hypothetical easter egg cut too

 

U F O 

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On 1/4/2018 at 5:13 PM, The Five Tones said:

Reading that the transfers were done from 16-track masters and then hearing all of this detail I never had before suggests to me that it's not only a remaster but a proper remix as well, i.e. radically different (and welcome) balances. 

 

It's not a remix, just a transfer of the original first generation elements from 1977 and prepared for stereo release.

 

UPDATE: I was wrong, see correct information below

 

Quote

At least in some cases on CD1 (ex. Barry's Kidnapping). Has this been confirmed?

 

Barry's Kidnapping on disc 1 include vocal overlays that were not mixed into the cue for the OST or 1998 (but are heard in the film).

 

Quote

Watching the Skies sounds so fresh, like it could've been tracked on the 2016 film Arrival and fit right in. 

 

I freaking love that track!

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My first listen to my favorite score of all time. F*ck

 

Amazing, timeless my biggest love of all time.

 

Returnees

brobably greatest cue ever

 

edit: what a fuck is eleventh commandment????

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

The twelfth:

 

"There is one and only one true God of film music, and to his disciples he shall be known as Johnny Baby."

 

Nay! Goldsmith was superior!

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11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The twelfth:

 

"There is one and only one true God of film music, and to his disciples he shall be known as Johnny Baby."

 

10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Nay! Goldsmith was superior!

 

I agree 50% with each of you!

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On 30-12-2017 at 10:55 AM, fommes said:

What is "Dark Side of the Moon" (the first part) exactly: should it be placed before Outstretched Hands or after, and was it meant to replace part of "Outstretched Hands" or the preceding cue?

Also, the second cue in "Dark Side of the Moon", does it start at 0:43 or at 0:52?

 

Nobody else? Jay? Is Corellian right in assuming that the cue is an alternate for the second part of Outstretched Hands?

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On 1/5/2018 at 4:46 PM, Jay said:

Hey, so it turns out I was completely wrong :P

 

The new LLL release IS a remix!  The score was recorded to 16 tracks and Matessino used all 16 tracks to completely remix the entire thing for the release.  He had notes about how it was mixed for the original album as a guide to use to remix it all again in a similar way.  It's a great remix job!


Both your answers made sense to me Jay. "Remix" is most commonly interpreted to mean a totally new conception of how to balance the tracks and/or remove/add elements from/to an earlier mix and/or change the structure of a composition, and it would make sense to say this wasn't a remix when it mostly sounds like the CE3K we've known from the film and prior two official releases. I figured even if MM had deemed it technically to be a transfer not a remix, he would've had to have notes from the original mixing sessions. Or at least that in "transferring only" he caught much that had been muted in the original. But thanks for confirming that it is a remix. My ears caught the changes - I've spent many years mixing myself. This is an incredible edition, especially considering its history.

Also, re much earlier questions about where to fit Inside (I suck at quoting), I think dramatically it doesn't really work anywhere and is just one bit of ear candy too much for the 1977 score as a self-contained entity (esp. with the extra quote of "When You Wish" and preempting the reveal of the Contact theme). But it's irresistibly beautiful. MM does a great job at matching the '77 and '80 sonics, so that's not an issue. One could edit Contact to split it so that Inside is programmed as it is in the SE of the film, just before the full statement of the Contact theme itself (the "religious" one with very wide melodic intervals, that rises higher and higher every few notes). But you don't have to, as JW key matched it. Brilliantly - arguably as an intentional, practical thing in advance of music editing being finalized - JW scored Inside so that its initial and final chords maintain the key that is preserved in the segue between The Appearance of the Visitors and Contact. For me, that makes the lack of dramatic fit worth it, it just locks into place harmonically. I may go back to leaving Inside as part of the CD2 program and restoring the "proper" 1977 flow, but right now I'm loving it.

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Well it truly was a full and complete remix in the true sense of the word.  It was recorded to 16 tracks, IE 16 different microphones in the room recording different instrument sets were each saved to their own track.  IE one track had the horns, another had the brass, one had keyboards, one had violins, one had male choir, one had female choir, 2 had percussion, 2 were ambient room noise, etc etc, etc etc.  He then used all 16 tracks to make new a stereo (or maybe 3 channel stereo, I dunno) master at the same resolution the first gen elements were transferred at (24 bit / 96 khz) of every cue he was putting on the set.  The 1998 CD had to be remixed too and you'll notice they put the harp in the left channel on the 1998 mix, but its back in the center in the new remix like it was on the original album (and the film).

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On 12/30/2017 at 4:55 AM, fommes said:

What is "Dark Side of the Moon" (the first part) exactly: should it be placed before Outstretched Hands or after, and was it meant to replace part of "Outstretched Hands" or the preceding cue?

 

Isn't it heard in the film near the end of Climbing The Mountain, before Outstretched Hands proper begins?  I can't recall now, I'll have to check.

 

 

Quote

Also, the second cue in "Dark Side of the Moon", does it start at 0:43 or at 0:52?

 

0:52.

 

 

 

On 12/30/2017 at 7:37 PM, Corellian2019 said:

I think "Dark Side of the Moon" was intended as an alternative for the second part of "Outstretched Hands"

 

On 1/7/2018 at 11:16 AM, fommes said:

Nobody else? Jay? Is Corellian right in assuming that the cue is an alternate for the second part of Outstretched Hands?

 

Oh, hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar now, I honestly can't remember and don't seem to have any notes on it, I'll have to dig into things and report back.

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That's honestly the one problem I have with the new set: you have no information what the hell you're actually listening to with a lot of cues. I understand the focus on this new listening experience, and based on Jay's breakdown, I can see why they didn't label every cue, it would discourage a lot of people to see what a huge mess (if you purely look at what the tracks are: alternate, additional, early, duplicate, OST track, source cue...) the second disc is; but would it have been hard to dedicate the last 2-4 pages of the booklet to give at least a minimal info on each track, which cues they're made of, and perhaps give a complete intended and chronological order?

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11 minutes ago, Holko said:

That's honestly the one problem I have with the new set: you have no information what the hell you're actually listening to with a lot of cues. I understand the focus on this new listening experience, and based on Jay's breakdown, I can see why they didn't label every cue, it would discourage a lot of people to see what a huge mess (if you purely look at what the tracks are: alternate, additional, early, duplicate, OST track, source cue...) the second disc is; but would it have been hard to dedicate the last 2-4 pages of the booklet to give at least a minimal info on each track, which cues they're made of, and perhaps give a complete intended and chronological order?

Agreed (partly in principle as I already recognize most tracks). A chart or some other detailed breakdown would've been appreciated. Perhaps a marketing/branding choice not to include it. I've noticed both this release and E.T. were short on notes.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Isn't it heard in the film near the end of Climbing The Mountain, before Outstretched Hands proper begins?

 

No, in the film, the music segues from the last piano note of "Climbing The Mountain" to the beginning of "Outstretched Hands"

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14 minutes ago, Corellian2019 said:

 

No, in the film, the music segues from the last piano note of "Climbing The Mountain" to the beginning of "Outstretched Hands"

Between Outstretched Hands and Dark Side of the Moon, which version of the Devil's Tower theme statement (the identical material between the two tracks) accompanies the reveal of the landing strip? Is Dark Side simply an alternate or was any of it used?

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For those of you who have the 40th anniversary BD, in the "Home Movies & Outtakes" feature, there's a lovely moment from the scoring sessions where we see the orchestra perform "Stars and Trucks" alongside the original assembly of shots for that section in the film (including a deleted shot of Lacombe looking up at the sky before the scene cuts to the truck convoy). Cool stuff! I just wish there was more

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On 12/2/2017 at 8:13 PM, Fal said:

Surprised the chant wasn't in the "The Five Tones" track.

However, it IS in the surround audio of the DVD/Blu-ray! (hear attached)

CE3K_chant_thing.wav

 

So I just watched the short but interesting feature highlighting Spielberg's Super 8 footage shot during the making of the film, and there's a neat shot of Williams conducting the orchestra as they perform the cue known as 'Stars and Trucks'. But the neat part is seeing the footage they're scoring to. It's an unused transition that takes us from the deleted scene of Neary on the roof of his house looking skyward...then cut to Lacombe doing the same...then cut to the gate being opened for the government trucks to be let out. (see attached)

Stars_and_Trucks.mov

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Yea its a shame they didn't put the full scene with the cue restored properly in the deleted scenes section of the BD

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Okay, what the fuck is responsible for the sound of this recording?! It was the 70s and it sounds like it was recorded yesterday! There's absolutely no comparison to any other recording from that time!

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Yea, it might just be the best sounding 70s score in my collection, I love the sound of it.  Certainly one of the most improved scores from old edition to new edition I've heard.

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Indeed, it is quite amazing what modern technology can do to improve old analog recordings.  Even damaged elements can be salvaged and made to sound like they were never damaged again.  Great stuff.

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On 3/13/2018 at 8:02 PM, Hedji said:

I've been enjoying the release, and trying different configurations of the listening experience.  I ended up merging 22. Contact with 23. End Titles to replicate the flow as it was on the 98 Arista.  It's a much better transition and critical to the crescendo of the five note motif.

 

One motif that I don't think gets mentioned much, and I don't think Matessino counted it in the liner notes, is the one that appears in "Contact" and "Inside".  So, it gets repeated at least 3 times in the Special Edition.  And it even has its own Disco version:

 

Any thoughts on this motif?  Or is it not substantial enough to be counted as such?

That IS an awesome find. I don't have the (minimal) liner notes at hand, but I seem to recall Matessino mentioned the wide intervals of the this theme. It's the perfect theme for that point in the film, related in terms of pitches to the other motifs but a little more complex (i.e. hard to sing) and Messiaen-like. Its long melodic line is the first real contrast with the short motifs before the full statement of Devil's Tower in the finale.

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well it's the theme for the Finale so  of  course I always noticed it

 

My absolute favorite moment of the score features this theme: at 2.12 in the end Titles (LaLaLand disk 1 ) when it's played on the strings

On 3/13/2018 at 8:02 PM, Hedji said:

I've been enjoying the release, and trying different configurations of the listening experience.  I ended up merging 22. Contact with 23. End Titles to replicate the flow as it was on the 98 Arista.  It's a much better transition and critical to the crescendo of the five note motif.

 

 yes , that's the only thing I didn;t like of the LLL. That transition is critical

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59 minutes ago, King Mark said:

well it's the theme for the Finale so  of  course I always noticed it

 

My absolute favorite moment of the score features this theme: at 2.12 in the end Titles (LaLaLand disk 1 ) when it's played on the strings

 

:huh:

Are you talking about track 23 of Disc 1?

that theme at 2.12 is When you wish upon a star.

it's not the theme we were talking about.

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wait your right. It means the Finale theme (with he choir) is based on When your Wish Upon a Star and I was thinking of the wrong theme

 

The theme I mean is at 2.22 in Contact

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Barry's Kidnapping

 

The LLL cd track set to the picture.  I really think everyone on JWFan should watch this, with headphones on.  This sequence with just the music is extraordinary.

 

EDIT:

Created new thread for these videos here

 

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Would you considering having all your videos in their own thread that you can update as you do each other, rather than letting them get buried in a random page in various threads for the specialty label release of that score?

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I bought this from LLL a little over 3 weeks ago!  Excited!

 

(still waiting on the package, which also will include a bunch of random Bear McCreary releases that were on sale at the time - just waiting until LLL's "contact us" 4 week time limit is up...)

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Would you considering having all your videos in their own thread that you can update as you do each other, rather than letting them get buried in a random page in various threads for the specialty label release of that score?

 

Sure, although that seems to impart some level of professionalism to them that they don't deserve.

 

For this one I'm especially iffy.  CE3K has a TON of microediting and fussing around with the score.  But when I just laid the track on top of the video, so many of the sync points seemed to be there.  Others are not.  Still, it's a lot of fun to watch, even if it might be wrong.

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5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Sure, although that seems to impart some level of professionalism to them that they don't deserve.

 

I dunno about that, are Bloodboal's or Faleel's or Mr. Breathmask's threads "professional"?

 

OK I'll merge away!

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

I dunno about that, are Bloodboal's or Faleel's or Mr. Breathmask's threads "professional"?

 

OK I'll merge away!

 

Oh I just made the thread.  I thought it made sense to have two, one for Williams videos and one for non-Williams, being that this is JWFan.  Might as well keep the Williams related videos together in one place.

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