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THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

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If there really are only two new noteworthy ideas involved in this score, and nothing sweeping like Across The Stars or similar, as indicated in the other thread, that would be dissapointing.

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9 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

If there really are only two new noteworthy ideas involved in this score, and nothing sweeping like Across The Stars or similar, as indicated in the other thread, that would be dissapointing.

 

I agree, that would be disappointing. What TLJ material is Williams going to play at his concerts?

 

Regardless, I'm going to try not to form an opinion before I've heard anything myself.

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But if the two themes are included in the end credits suite, they must be significant to some extent. The prospect of two new themes excites me regardless of how sweeping they are or aren't. I'm a fanboy.

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31 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

Four words: The Dark Side Beckons!

 

The Dark Side Beckons is the greatest musical moment in Star Wars, and a prime example of John selling something that wouldn't have much weight on its own.  He is the reason you feel something during that sequence.

 

Interestingly, when there isn't such a gap between the quality of score and film, you don't get those blowout moments as often.

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Spoiler

 

Rose’s theme is sweeping, and is definitely used in that type of fashion.  It seems to have strong ties to the force theme in its opening intervals, though it’s in a major key.

 

March of the Resistance is used a lot, some unique variations and some that feel pulled right from the concert suite.

 

Leia’s theme gets a lot of play, especially early on.  Some of it is straight out of the concert suite.    There’s a nice new variation of it for piano on the end credits.

 

You do finally get a complete statement of the force theme in this film for Luke, not abridged like they all were in TFA. 

 

Emperor’s theme is back, in a POWERFUL new statement.  Better than I heard in the prequels.

 

Yoda’s theme is back.

 

Rebel fanfare is back.

 

Luke’s theme appears a couple times.

 

Han and the Princess appears in nice new variations, and there is a nice extended variation of Luke and Leia - I’m glad he worked that one in there!

 

Rey’s theme appears of course, in both muted and sweeping varieties.

 

Some statements of Kylo’s theme feel pulled from TFA.  But there are nice new ones too.

 

Canto Bight has some good music - PLUS it features The Long Goodbye from Williams/Johnny Mercer.  No.  I’m not kidding.

 

Theres a chase scene on Canto Bight that has a fantastic set piece cue, but it’s covered a lot in the mix.

 

Poe’s theme is heard early on in the film.

 

The Superstructure Chase music from ROTJ is used in the battle on Crait for some Falcon scenes, with some new inserts that don’t really gel for me.

 

So these are spoilers for the music.

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Right.  There is.  Honestly on the first viewing it was forgettable.  Overshadowed by other material and it fits into the palette of militaristic music almost too well to stand out.  The album or repeat viewings will help it.

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So that may be one of the biggest let downs of the score, Holdo's Theme (if it is a theme). I really wonder if that Long Goodbye is distracting in the film with no real context for the use of it, sounds like it to me. Sounds temp tracked because that film is one of Johnson's all-time favorite films. Why, why use that thing here... was it a new variation of it in the casino or what's the context?

 

Is there more choir here, or is it just the very low voices for Snoke again? What would you say is the biggest surprise of the score (if there are any surprises that is), aside from the old themes you mentioned returning?

 

I have no more questions for now.

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Sounds like a "full" score with the old and new themes. Hopefully Williams will extend a few pieces for his typical five-movement SW suites. 

 

The Long Goodbye's inclusion is perfect.  I wonder if it was Johnson's or Williams' idea?  He should throw it into the background in The Post as well. 

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How much music would you say is "new" not including new statements of existing themes? 

 

Is this similar to Home Alone 2 where most of the music is new with a good amount of rehashing/adaptations of existing material?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just getting a little too excited! 

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The Long Goodbye isn’t distracting at all, it’s more of a cameo than anything else.  Goes by fast, maybe 5-10 seconds of it, in a hectic moment.  It appears in the casino.

 

The choir is just low voices again for Snoke, nothing big or stand out for that. 

 

Biggest surprise was probably the use of the emperor’s theme - it’s a great variation!  Very powerful.  That and the Luke and Leia theme from ROTJ, which was used very well and wasn’t just a straightforward repetition of the concert theme.  And having a full statement of the force theme was a great payoff!

 

Just now, someonefun124 said:

How much music would you say is "new" not including new statements of existing themes? 

 

Is this similar to Home Alone 2 where most of the music is new with a good amount of rehashing/adaptations of existing material?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just getting a little too excited! 

 

I’d say Home Alone 2 is a great comparison.  It’s really mostly new material.  It’s just that when you hear a true rehash it sticks out like a sore thumb.  Especially the superstructure chase music.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Brausam said:

The Long Goodbye isn’t distracting at all, it’s more of a cameo than anything else.  Goes by fast, maybe 5-10 seconds of it, in a hectic moment.  It appears in the casino.

 

The choir is just low voices again for Snoke, nothing big or stand out for that. 

 

Biggest surprise was probably the use of the emperor’s theme - it’s a great variation!  Very powerful.  That and the Luke and Leia theme from ROTJ, which was used very well and wasn’t just a straightforward repetition of the concert theme.  And having a full statement of the force theme was a great payoff!

 

 

I’d say Home Alone 2 is a great comparison.  It’s really mostly new material.  It’s just that when you hear a true rehash it sticks out like a sore thumb.  Especially the superstructure chase music.

When does emperors theme play

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Awesome!  Thanks for sharing with us!  I'm really looking forward to hearing all the new music and new statements of existing themes, particularly Rey's theme.

 

I will say rehashed music is disappointing to me.  "Burning Homestead" in TFA was really distracting, but that was tracked in and beyond Williams control at the time.  It seems the superstructure chase music was a deliberate choice but not surprising if Johnson really temped the film with only Williams music.

 

2 hours ago, Blumenkohl said:

Four words: The Dark Side Beckons!

 

Is this in reference to...

 

Spoiler

the Emperor's theme used in TLJ?

 

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Hey Joe, how did you feel the overall sound and the use of music compared to TFA in cinematic terms? Any general remarks you can make in terms of how the score was used for drama and atmosphere? Did you feel like there was anything about Johnson's visual style that offered anything neat for Williams that he was able to run with that you haven't seen him do in awhile?

 

Always interested in the differences between Williams's sequel scores, especially when there's a change in director. Not necessarily expecting a Columbus -> Cuaron type contrast or say Jurassic Park -> The Lost World, but just curious if there was anything in terms of how the music added to this film that jumped out to you as cool or different in tone or style? Or did it feel like it would probably not make much difference if you were to plop TLJ's music into TFA?

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Oh!  Also, coming out of the main title Williams uses the original piccolo solo from ANH.  It’s a new performance, but the same music.

 

As far as being pulled directly from concert suites - don’t think too much on it.  I’m sure there are differences that I didn’t catch on the first viewing.  But there are moments like a French horn solo of leia’s theme that plays out exactly as heard in the concert suite.  And many statements of the resistance march tend to sound exactly like the concert arrangement, though there are also plenty of fresh statements of it as well.  We hear a version of the force theme that plays out exactly as it did as Rey drove Kylo’s lightsaber into the snow in TFA. 

 

Again, don’t think doom and gloom here.  These rehashes are isolated moments that stick out to me, but they are by no means the bulk of the score.

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Was the superstructure chase music completely tracked or re-recorded? This is the same music as TIE fighter attack, right? Don’t mind hearing that again :)

 

Months ago, Williams said in an audio interview somewhere that TLJ is ‘a continuation of The Force Awakens, really...’ and so it appears he has scored it that way. Since I loved TFA, I’m beyond excited!

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The Jedi steps is back, primarily early on in the film.  I feel like there may have been some sparse references to it later on with music in sort of the same vein, but nothing that stood out.

 

As for the end credits suite - it's long.  I think a lot of it was reworked in editing so the album version will likely be a different experience.  I hope.  It's more disjointed than the TFA suite.  It includes Rose's theme, a piano solo of Leia's theme, which I believe transitions into material for Holdo. Superstructure Chase/TIE Fighter attack appears.  There are some nice statements of Rey's theme later on.  But as for the actual structure it's tough to really say.  It ends quietly again like TFA, with the celeste part from Rey's theme.

 

There is a point in the score that uses material from The March of the First Order in Walt Disney Hollywood Studios.  I'm unsure if this was music from TFA or not, but its thematic material is lifted directly from the Disney event.  Even down to the percussion that's meant to mimic the sound of marching.  I mean the low brass riff here, and the percussion.

 

 

 

Superstructure Chase/TIE Fighter attack is a new recording with new inserts in it - the new inserts are pretty jarring if you're familiar with the original cue, and noticeably stylistically different when compared to his earlier writing.

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New parts like that are always jarring when you’re used to another version for a long time. It’ll probably feel less strange after a while. And nice to hear that First Order March - it is the same motif that appears in ‘Attack on Jakku Village’!

 

As for not many new themes - I guess then the movie didn’t allow for more basically. And I can’t blame Williams for reprising his thematic foundation for TFA quite a bit, considering it was not presented very well in that movie. I wonder if his First Order motif is heard more this time - JJ basically made it disappear in his movie.

 

By the way, I always thought the term ‘insert’ always refers to an actually *recorded* part that is then edited inside an existing cue recording. But sometimes people refer to it when a pre-existing cue’s composition is altered to match a new scene. Can someone clarify what exactly its definition is?

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33 minutes ago, Joe Brausam said:

Yup!

 

Thanks for confirming.

 

Sounds a bit disappointing, to be honest. Not that I really expected a big Imperial March-like theme for the First order, but still... As much as I like Kylo Ren's themes, they're still very much attached to the character, and not the bad guys as a whole, so it feels like once again, the First Order lacks a strong musical identity. Pity.

 

Well, hopefully, Rose's theme is really awesome.

 

26 minutes ago, Remco said:

By the way, I always thought the term ‘insert’ always refers to an actually *recorded* part that is then edited inside an existing cue recording. But sometimes people refer to it when a pre-existing cue’s composition is altered to match a new scene. Can someone clarify what exactly its definition is?

 

The definition you gave is the correct one (as far as I know).

 

I think what Joe meant was more that Williams extended the original composition, added new phrases in some spots, stuff like that, then recorded that. The term "insert" may not be accurate in this particular case, but you get the idea. ;)

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Since this is a continuation of TFA, it's not surprising there aren't many new themes since most of the returning characters already have established themes.  Adding too much more thematic material could have turned into a mess.  Williams was pretty thorough with developing themes/motifs in TFA.  Even the First Order had a theme/motif in TFA so I hope it is utilized more.  What really surprises me is the lack of theme/motif for the Porgs considering how much they've been marketed.

 

Like with TFA, I imagine the OST presentation will be superior to the film version.

 

 

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1 minute ago, someonefun124 said:

Like with TFA, I imagine the OST presentation will be superior to the film version.

 

Here's hoping the The Battle Of Crait track isn't just the extended Tie-Fighter Attack/Superstructure Chase cue, but is focused mostly on new material!

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Don't lose hope yet!  The OST is yet to be heard! :yes:

 

13 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Here's hoping the The Battle Of Crait track isn't just the extended Tie-Fighter Attack/Superstructure Chase cue, but is focused mostly on new material!

 

Will this be the fourth time we've heard this piece in a Star Wars film? 1x Star Wars 2x ROTJ 1x TLJ

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I wonder if the Superstructure music ended up being an alternate at the request of Johnson or if it was something they planned from the get go. Like if it's an alternate maybe we'll hear the original thing on the album.....

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14 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Well, shit. I knew it was all doom and gloom. Hopefully Rose's theme is a treat!

 

From what I've read (here and other places), Rose's theme is actually pretty good.  Maybe Williams found a new crush. :wub:

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3 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

I wonder if the Superstructure music ended up being an alternate at the request of Johnson or if it was something they planned from the get go. Like if it's an alternate maybe we'll hear the original thing on the album.....

 

Hopefully!

 

2 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

From what I've read (here and other places), Rose's theme is actually pretty good.  Maybe Williams found a new crush. :wub:

 

Williams: "Daisy who? I'm sorry, my first and only love always was and always will be Kelly Marie Tran!"

 

8 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Will this be the fourth time we've heard this piece in a Star Wars film? 1x Star Wars 2x ROTJ 1x TLJ

 

Hey, maybe it's used more than once in TLJ. ;)

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1 minute ago, Sandor said:

I cannot escape the feeling that Dear Basketball will end up being the most appealing music wrote in 2017... Ouch.

 

01. Dear Basketball

 

 

02. The Post

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

03. The Last Jedi

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