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THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED


Jay

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1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

I don't get people having a problem with the lack of a big central theme for the First Order. It makes total sense not having one.

 

- It would immediately be compared with the Imperial March, and as Giacchino's was in Rogue One, it isn't necessary.

 

- The story is focused heavily on Rey vs Ren, as is the score. Ren's theme serves as the big bad theme, like the Imperial March was mostly serving Vader's character. So you could say that this new trilogy's 'Imperial March' is already Ren's theme.

 

- The Resistance is heavily represented in the score, whereas the Rebellion was not really at all musically represented in the original trilogy, thus leaving space for the Imperial March. 

 

- The original trilogy was all about the heavy might of the empire being all powerful and galaxy-wide, therefore they had a huge overpowering musical presence. But in this trilogy the First Order are less so.

 

I just think that the original trilogy had an overbearing evil theme, so this trilogy has an overbearing good theme. 

The way you explain it makes sense to me and I agree with the overall direction. I think the issue that becomes evident in the film is the lack of any strong motivic idea whenever he have grand shots of giant First Order ships and machinery. I'm cool with using Kylo Ren's theme in some of those moments, but at many others we just get some kind of brassy flourish instead and that feels like a missed opportunity.
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Just now, artguy360 said:
The way you explain it makes sense to me and I agree with the overall direction. I think the issue that becomes evident in the film is the lack of any strong motivic idea whenever he have grand shots of giant First Order ships and machinery. I'm cool with using Kylo Ren's theme in some of those moments, but at many others we just get some kind of brassy flourish instead and that feels like a missed opportunity.

 

 

Perhaps Williams did intend to extend that little snippet heard in the opening shot of TFA and whenever we saw Starkiller Base, into a theme for this film, but after seeing it he realised that Kylo Ren is now the leader of the First Order, thus in Episode 9, his theme can finally be all-powerful in every shot concerning The First Order.

 

I predict that Ren's Theme will be used now to fully musically represent the First Order, now that he's the Supreme Leader. I guess that was Williams intent.

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I do agree. But not so sure about First Order being not being overpowering presence given that they eradicate probably 99% of the Resistance in this movie.

 

Karol

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True but they do feel less powerful than the Empire. I guess simply because we knew the Emperor literally ran the Galaxy, whereas Snoke was a man in hiding and who struck secretly, and turned out to be a place-holder for Ren.

 

 

In a perfect world, I would have liked variations on this (1:36 - 1:44) when the First Order ships showed up at the start and Snoke's ship showed up later.

 

 

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^That would have been great if it was a bit more built up it would work well as a First Order motif. I think it does more or less serve that purpose in TFA but perhaps a bit too subtly and inconsistently. Overall, it does make sense to focus more on Kylo Ren's themes as JW has done.

 

Unrelated, does anyone else find it slightly weird that the new theme for Luke's island life has such a militaristic sound to it? Before I saw the film, I thought it was a new Resistance/Rebellion theme. I thought the urgency in the music was to reflect a new dire situation the Resistance was facing. Even now, having seen the film I think that music could work well as a motif for the extended space chase between the First Order and the Resistance. It would give that arc some musical drama and identification that I felt was missing. But back to my point, isn't it strangely militaristic given the subject matter it represents? 

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I didn't find it too militaristic. I think it perfeftly fit Luke's new mindset and break away from the Galaxy, but Williams did go for a militaristic approach for Luke as he approached Ren to face him in 'The Spark,' so perhaps it was his intent.

 

 

To me, Luke's new theme sounds built upon his original (main titles) theme for Luke. Specifically if you hum the down and back shape of the main titles, the 3rd to 7th notes. Hum them over and over, repeating and it sounds like Williams took it from there.

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10 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I didn't find it too militaristic. I think it perfeftly fit Luke's new mindset and break away from the Galaxy, but Williams did go for a militaristic approach for Luke as he approached Ren to face him in 'The Spark,' so perhaps it was his intent.

 

 

To me, Luke's new theme sounds built upon his original (main titles) theme for Luke. Specifically if you hum the down and back shape of the main titles, the 3rd to 7th notes. Hum them over and over, repeating and it sounds like Williams took it from there.

You mean the short motif and builds and builds in the second half of the track? I wonder why more of this new Luke theme isn't featured in Luke's confrontation on Crait. I suggested earlier that it is specifically for the island sequence and not for Luke himself. Almost like a theme for this rugged, survivalist lifestyle.

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8 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

You mean the short motif and builds and builds in the second half of the track? I wonder why more of this new Luke theme isn't featured in Luke's confrontation on Crait. I suggested earlier that it is specifically for the island sequence and not for Luke himself. Almost like a theme for this rugged, survivalist lifestyle.

 

Yeah that one. 

 

Perhaps so yes, maybe it comes off in a militaristic way, because Luke is a survivalist as you say now in his way of life and the film shows as much, when we see him getting milk from the creatures and food from fishing. He is an intense individual when we meet him again after 30 years, and he has a 'lone soldier left behind on an island to fend for himself' vibe to him. 

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1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

 

Yeah that one. 

 

Perhaps so yes, maybe it comes off in a militaristic way, because Luke is a survivalist as you say now in his way of life and the film shows as much, when we see him getting milk from the creatures and food from fishing. He is an intense individual when we meet him again after 30 years, and he has a 'lone soldier left behind on an island to fend for himself' vibe to him. 

Yeah that's my impression. I like the new theme, but I think it would work better as a new Resistance motif than a new theme for Luke.

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3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Unless, of course, it counts as the new extension of Rey's theme. 

 

Karol

I had that exact same thought, because there are some similarities between this new theme and the more mysterious section of Rey's Theme and JW mixes them together in the scene where Rey starts training with the lightsaber. But again the theme never appears again once the movie shifts away from the island. I wish we had an interview or featurette where JW comments on the new music and this new theme. Right now I think its more of an island experience theme than a new theme for Luke or Rey. And to make matters worse, on the OST it's paired with Rose's Theme and called The Rebellion is Reborn! Ridiculous!

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I think the term "Rebellion" in this track simply refers to the new flame of characters taking for good by the end of this film, not so much Rebellion/Resistance as we know it. So Rose, Poe and Rey are somewhat represented musically in this piece. That's how I see it.

 

Karol

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Is the track The Last Jedi missing any important music? I'm finding myself not really caring for this track but I also don't remember the music in the film well for this sequence. The Spark is such a great highlight, The Last Jedi seems out of order chronologically(?) I'm not sure.

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54 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

Perhaps Williams did intend to extend that little snippet heard in the opening shot of TFA and whenever we saw Starkiller Base, into a theme for this film, but after seeing it he realised that Kylo Ren is now the leader of the First Order, thus in Episode 9, his theme can finally be all-powerful in every shot concerning The First Order.

 

I predict that Ren's Theme will be used now to fully musically represent the First Order, now that he's the Supreme Leader. I guess that was Williams intent.

 

I was also thinking this today. At the end of the score we hear Kylo’s theme on a marching rythm and a bit of an extension - which could be a hint of what is to come. Now that Kylo seems to have dealt with his issues and becomes the Supreme Leader, it would be appropriate to have a First Order/Kylo Ren march theme for the final movie.

 

I get the impression now that the films are made faster after each other, and since they immediately connect story-wise, the end result will be a far more cohesive SW trilogy than the prequels, musically speaking. 

 

Also about what has been said earlier, one might have personal issues with how this score is done compared to expectations, but I can’t think of a better way to score this film. It doesn’t ask for many new themes, and at least the other material has a clear leitmotivic purpose most of the time, unlike RotS for instance.

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1 minute ago, crocodile said:

No it is the very next cue.

 

Karol

Ok, so can you help me out. The action music at the very start of the cue scores all the lasers firing at Luke? Then the Force theme is when Luke is shown still standing. So what's happening when the choir kicks in? I can't recall. For some reason I thought the choir was for when Finn thought he was going to die.

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The choir at the end of Crait battle cue is for the Finn moment, yeah. When the choir in The Last Jedi enters when Rey uses the Force to lift all the stones. And then you have the rest of the confrontation between Luke and Ren.

 

Karol

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4 minutes ago, Remco said:

 

I was also thinking this today. At the end of the score we hear Kylo’s theme on a marching rythm and a bit of an extension - which could be a hint of what is to come. Now that Kylo seems to have dealt with his issues and becomes the Supreme Leader, it would be appropriate to have a First Order/Kylo Ren march theme for the final movie.

 

That's an interesting take, I was just wondering about this in the other thread. I feel like most of us assumed that Kylo's theme was "incomplete" in TFA because so was the character, in a way, and we thought that'd be different in TLJ. Now that he's finally established himself as the Supreme Leader, maybe this is a hint of his First Order's theme.

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5 minutes ago, crocodile said:

The choir at the end of Crait battle cue is for the Finn moment, yeah. When the choir in The Last Jedi enters when Rey uses the Force to lift all the stones. And then you have the rest of the confrontation between Luke and Ren.

 

Karol

Thanks. I completely forgot what scored Rey's jedi moment. 

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I might be wrong here but there is a bit missing between The Spark and The Last Jedi actually. It's the bit when we hear Poe's theme and all his "spark" speech.

 

Luke's death opens Peace and Purpose (as the title suggests).

 

Karol

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On 12/15/2017 at 7:11 AM, Damien F said:

There are a few more statements of Rey's theme in the movie that aren't on the album however most aren't too different to what we already have. Except for one really nice and somewhat cute version when she is on the island which I don't believe is on the OST. It is brief but my favorite unreleased moment. It appears in the scene when she is practicing with her staff .

 

Yes, another one I really hope is on the FYC! That cue was beautiful, really struck me when watching the film.

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Having seen the film, it's hard to fault JW with using old themes where he did or even the renditions themselves. I wish this movie was less reliant but each use of an old theme made sense and worked well in film. I guess I wish the film itself were different so JW would have written different music. 

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1 minute ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

I think it's also just the case of Williams kinda deciding to kick back and just have fun with the music for this installment. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he probably felt a lot better health-wise during the scoring of TLJ. He possibly saw TLJ as an opportunity to, now with renewed vigor, really maximize the potential of the themes he had written in TFA, as well as to celebrate his 40th year with this franchise, and I think that attitude is reflected in the music and in his usage of prior themes. The score just seems so much more consistently spritely and fuller than TFA, and I guess I can't help but see that as in somehow being tied to Williams' own vitality. I don't know. Possibly a stretch. 

I thought it possibly reflected temp score more closely more than anything else or Rian Johnson's specific directions. Parts of TFA gave me the impression that JW was writing in "this might be my last SW mode and I got a similar impression from ROTS so many years ago. I think you're right that there may be a renewed vigor in TLJ's score. It certainly is very high energy and almost omnipresent in the film. But nothing about the score gives me the impression that JW was in a celebratory or "I'm back!" kind of mode. 

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14 hours ago, rpvee said:

“Luke and Leia” is my favorite Star Wars theme - it’s so heart wrenchingly beautiful - and I’d hoped that Williams’ including it in recent concerts meant he’d remember it for the new score, if a scene gave him the chance to use it.

 

Yes! I thought it was very interesting that he performed this piece at a concert right around the time he was writing/recording TLJ. At that point I knew the theme would return IF the two characters reunited (which they fortunately did, in the most beautiful way possible).

 

10 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Talking about the First Order theme (or more specifically, the lack of theme): did anyone think the melody heard as the big phat destroyer shows up during the opening battle (the one they try to blow up) would have made a fine theme for the villains of the story? When I first heard it, I actually thought: "Hey, Williams finally came up with something for the First Order!"

 

Yes, I love that little motif. It appears about 3 times in the score from memory, so that's enough to be a recurring motif for the First Order.

 

Their underused motif from TFA also returns several times during TLJ.

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9 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

^That's kinda what I was thinking. And I think the March of the Resistance might be the best treated returning TFA theme here, lots of great statements.

 

And you can hear it so clearly in the film, too! When it first appears in TFA, the initial couple of seconds are fairly lucid but it quickly becomes tough to make out parts. The first time it appears in TLJ, it comes out blaring, unmistakable, crisp. I am still just beyond thrilled by how kindly the mix is to the music this go-around. 

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After all those years complaining about TFA's shitty treatment in the mix, along comes TLJ and could well be the best treated JW score, like, ever. Even better than Giacchino got for Rogue One.

 

Is this driven by the director? Sound mixing team? I assume the latter were all the same film to film?

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Director has final approval. Johnson must have been really happy with the music. Although I generally loved how loud the music was in the mix, there were times where I felt it should have been dialed back. 

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35 minutes ago, crumbs said:

After all those years complaining about TFA's shitty treatment in the mix, along comes TLJ and could well be the best treated JW score, like, ever. Even better than Giacchino got for Rogue One.

 

Is this driven by the director? Sound mixing team? I assume the latter were all the same film to film?

  maybe Ben Burrt wasn't there

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Has anyone noted yet how well the new Luke/Rey training theme works in counterpoint to both Rey’s and Luke’s themes? I think you could almost consider it a more developed version of the Beastie Boys/flute riff of Rey’s theme, and it plays well over the main melody of Rey’s theme. And there’s a moment in ESB that I can’t find at the moment where Luke’s theme plays in a minor key over a bouncy riff that feels very similar to the new theme.

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It's reprised in the Battle of Crait:

 

And I'm certain it's in another track, either The Supremacy or elsewhere earlier in the film. I distinctly recall thinking this was a new theme when watching the film.

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3 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of an overarching villains theme is a big problem in terms of musical narrative and in terms of making the villains memorable and feel like a huge threat to our heroes. 

 

Which has been a frequent film music problem since the 90's.

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There's something I remember from the film

 

When we see all the Stormtroopers assembling in a hangar near the end of the movie (somewhere before the Phasma fight), there's a loud brass fanfare that plays. Is that on the c.d.?

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So, not sure if this has been mentioned, and I could be 100 percent wrong. But I'm pretty sure "The Resistance" from TFA's FYC was tracked into the final battle battle kind of messily. Haven't listened to the OST yet, but it stuck out to me in the film.

 

EDIT: I'm wrong. It's on the OST, but it still sounds real messy.

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4 hours ago, king mark said:

There's something I remember from the film

 

When we see all the Stormtroopers assembling in a hangar near the end of the movie (somewhere before the Phasma fight), there's a loud brass fanfare that plays. Is that on the c.d.?

 

I think no.  I'm seein this again on monday. We are missing so many brass moments me thinks

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6 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

I know it's been mentioned but I can't find the post... where is the music on the OST were Holdo turns the ship around?

 

Immediately following Yoda’s theme in the credits

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8 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

And you can hear it so clearly in the film, too! When it first appears in TFA, the initial couple of seconds are fairly lucid but it quickly becomes tough to make out parts. The first time it appears in TLJ, it comes out blaring, unmistakable, crisp. I am still just beyond thrilled by how kindly the mix is to the music this go-around. 

 

I feel like if March of the Resistance was introduced here, and not TFA, no one would be complaining about how this score doesn't have one new signature theme that ties the whole film together.

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12 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

 

Immediately following Yoda’s theme in the credits

 

18 minutes ago, king mark said:

somewhere in the end credits

 

Thanks.  I really love this music.  However, I will say I'm glad Yoda's theme did not appear in the film version of the credits. Although, it was hard to listen and pay close attention to the music with everyone getting up and the guys behind me arguing whether Phasma really died.  Apparently her armor protected her from not only the fire but the fall too.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I get major flashbacks to Qui-Gon's and Padme's funerals in this piece at 0:10 - 0:28 . I guess it's fitting as Luke is essentially going to die and ascend into the force.

 

 

 

OK, if you're gonna keep posting like that, Youtube has a share button right under the big red subscribe button, and there's a box you can tick so you get a link with the correct starting point. Paste that new link in here and you get an embedded video where we won't have to pixelhunt to find what you're commenting on!

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By the way, is it just me or do most of the action setpieces (at least three of them) feature the action ostinato from I Can Fly Anything?

 

(Which also happend to be featured in Quidditch match. ;) )

 

Is it Poe/Resistance action ostinato or something?

 

Karol

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