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THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED


Jay

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The example I showed above isn't the raptor motif. The Raptor motif is a different 4 note motif. I'm looking for it now in TLJ. I swear I heard it a few times.

 

Also the percussion and brass fanfares towards the end of A New Alliance is very Lost World.

 

I would love that if Rey dies in Ep9, then something like the end of 'Finale' plays as she dies. The emotional high strings of her theme, and then those 'to be continued' chimes and harp of her secondary theme at the end as she transforms into the force. I think what Williams did with her music at the end of 'Finale' would completely fit a scenario like that.

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2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Does anyone get some Jurassic Park vibes in TLJ? I swear the 4 note raptor motif is in there somewhere and this of course at 0:08 - 

 

 

 

It surely reminds of Williams' typical gestures when it comes to put music for baddies. Interesting use of augmented fourth (aka "diabolus in musica"). The motif here sounds like a development of Snoke's musical material.

 

15 minutes ago, thx99 said:

FWIW...

 

For The Last Jedi, Williams recorded 138 minutes of music with the orchestra, which Williams says “is something of a record.”

 

Source: http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/pdf/SW_PRODUCTION_NOTES.pdf

 

Thanks for pointing out!

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Didn't he record just as much for Return of the Jedi? and even more for The Force Awakens?

 

Also, is Williams misremembering when he says: "“Rey has a theme, Kylo Ren has a theme, Finn has one, Rose has one." Either he's refering to that "pursuit" ostinato from The Force Awakens (which I don't recall at all in this), or he is talking about new material from this film which relates to Finn, which again I certainly can't point to, or he's misremembering slightly.

 

Interesting that he doesn't mention Holdo as having a theme, I'd say it's a case for naming that motif as "desperation", but than ex silentio isn't my favorite way of proving a point.

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Maybe he just confused Finn with Poe? Seems more likely. The part about the 138 minutes being a record is a little confusing... he recorded something like 178 minutes for TFA. Maybe he meant music included in the final film?

 

Also, I'll amuse myself by imagining Williams was making passive-aggressive jabs about JJ to Rian with those comments about leaving all the music in the film -- which Rian very faithfully did! And also how well it was mixed! Especially considering how much brilliant music JJ removed from TFA, and how much was buried under sound effects. Can't imagine Williams was overly pleased with either, so it's interesting/encouraging that both issues were resolved in TLJ.
 

Quote

 

The last day of recording on films is always a bit emotional for Williams, and for the orchestra as well. “We’ve been together for so many years,” says Williams. “We’ve finished a lot of films together, so there’s always a sense of satisfaction in coming to the end of the musical journey of it. But there’s also the sense of feeling sorry that we won’t be meeting again next week to record some more Star Wars music. We have to look forward to the next episode.”

 

 

Well, I guess we don't need to worry about Williams not signing on for IX then. He seems very attached to Star Wars these days, indeed! :)

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Yes, it was nice to see him elaborate on his experience with the score. Very interesting.

 

As for Abrams mixing, I don't mind that the director dials out certain parts of the music. There's certainly stuff that you want unscored, be it in the spotting session or during the mixing of the finished film. Think about how the music for Frodo standing on the shores of the Anduin was removed. What I do mind is where there is music and its just buried. To the casual audience, the music in that film is a none-entity.

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Yeah there are points in TFA where I know music is playing, but it’s so buried in the sound mix that I’m not entirely sure why it’s even there.  It doesn’t have any effect on the overall sound design of the film.

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But its a valid complaint, whether it's one derived from the music itself, or from the way it was mixed.

 

The point of leitmotivic writing is that you see something onstage or onscreen as the leitmotif is playing for the first one or two times, and come to associate an element (apparent or underlying) from those moments with the leitmotif. As it continues to occur, it gathers more and more associative power.

 

If you can't hear the music, no matter the reason, that associative power of the music is completely lost, even as you listen to it again on the album.

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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

But its a valid complaint, whether it's one derived from the music itself, or from the way it was mixed.

 

The point of leitmotivic writing is that you see something onstage or onscreen as the leitmotif is playing for the first one or two times, and come to associate an element (apparent or underlying) from those moments with the leitmotif. As it continues to occur, it gathers more and more associative power.

 

If you can't hear the music, no matter the reason, that associative power of the music is completely lost, even as you listen to it again on the album.

 

Not sure what you mean here - it’s a complaint yes, but not one that you can aim at the composer, right? In my case, I’ve listened to TFA’s soundtrack far more than I’ve seen the movie but I’m perfectly capable of associating it with the things I’ve seen in the movie. 

 

Some very strange decisions were made in there though: who thought it was a good idea to completely cover the very first phrase of Rey’s theme with the overpowering sound of a speeder?

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Scherzo for Xwings may as well not played at all. I had no idea it was hacked to pieces until the FYC. Shorter, yes, but the sound mix buried all those horrible edits.

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7 hours ago, Remco said:

 

Not sure what you mean here - it’s a complaint yes, but not one that you can aim at the composer, right? In my case, I’ve listened to TFA’s soundtrack far more than I’ve seen the movie but I’m perfectly capable of associating it with the things I’ve seen in the movie. 

 

You're too focused on absolving the composer. What truly matters is the final product which, to me, at least - is the film mix, not the album.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

You're too focused on absolving the composer. What truly matters is the final product which, to me, at least - is the film mix, not the album.


I'm not absolving JW, just saying the volume at which the score is mixed in the movie and its musical qualities are separate things. 

Clearly, the very same score would have had more impact in the movie if other people than Williams (Abrams, sound editors) had given it more room to be present.

As it is now, I find TFA's score music of exceptional quality, yet the movie doesn't really reflect that well. But frankly speaking, I've always been a fan of the music first so my priorities are maybe different than yours.

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7 hours ago, zeekypttr5678 said:

 

Wouldn't you believe it, but I do as well. But I dont think anything is TFA is nearly as buried as Klingon Chase from Into Darkness. That was truly horrendous.

Yes, it's a shame because that cue is so propulsive and the chanting adds to the mayhem of the chase. Ben Burtt was the sound designer on Into Darkness and The Force Awakens, coincidence?

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It's much worse when you see it dubbed. Even the sound effects are lost. Other day I watched Blue Sky's "Robots" and lost my patience trying to listen to some music of JP.

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Just found this article about Burtt not being sound designer on Rogue One or TLJ:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/ben-burtt-star-wars-sound

 

Confirmed: John Williams called Kathy baby and got her to fire Burtt after he saw what happened to "Scherzo for X-Wings".

 

EDIT: Actually it looks like he didn't work on TFA either, he was just credited for his trademark sound effects I guess.

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2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Just found this article about Burtt not being sound designer on Rogue One or TLJ:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/ben-burtt-star-wars-sound

 

Confirmed: John Williams called Kathy baby and got her to fire Burtt after he saw what happened to "Scherzo for X-Wings".

 

EDIT: Actually it looks like he didn't work on TFA either, he was just credited for his trademark sound effects I guess.

 

He provided some new sounds, but most of what he did wasn't used. As the article points out, he's been silently kicked out from Star Wars, even though he maintained his position at Skywalker Sound.

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On 9.1.2018 at 2:12 PM, thx99 said:

FWIW...

 

For The Last Jedi, Williams recorded 138 minutes of music with the orchestra, which Williams says “is something of a record.”

 

Source: http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/pdf/SW_PRODUCTION_NOTES.pdf

 

hm, the Variety piece from yesterday says 184 min of music. which is right? 138 sounds more like the number of minutes of score in the actual movie.

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Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect.

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Pity about Ben Burtt. In some ways he's as responsible for creating the "sound" of Star Wars as Williams. All those organic noises in an era when most sci-fi films had a cheesy electronic sound design. He wasn't as important as Williams, of course...but still vital to the success of those movies. Kind of sad that someone who was so influential in creating Star Wars is just kind of sadly toiling in some dark office. Hollywood is brutal. He's clearly out of favour with the new regime. 

 

I wonder what happened.  I do know that he made some awful choices when he mixed the OT Blu-Ray, including turning up his sound design and turning down Williams score. Not to mention swapping the left and right channel during a key moment of Williams score. Maybe JW held a grudge and threw him under the bus like he did Giacchino!

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7 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect.

 

I pointed that out.

 

I don't think it is the same. One note difference but a big difference.

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10 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Is it? If that's true, what on earth would be the thematic logic of that?

 

In spirit, his Father is with him when he goes out to be a badass. In case you hadn't noticed, Luke is a bit of a narky git in TLJ. 

 

9 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect.

 

A musician's response. I'm not strictly talking about the notes; there are clear shades of Vader's theme here in the tone and patterns. Listen to the moody aesthetics, the rhythms, it's all over it.  

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42 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I still can't hear it.

 

Wow, disappointing!

 

Listen to the beginning of The Spark (right after Han and Leia's theme plays, I mean) and have the opening 6 notes of The Imperial March in your mind as you do. Once the link is made, it cannot be unheard. 

 

17 minutes ago, crumbs said:

We're talking about the son of Darth Vader committing the ultimate sacrifice by "confronting" the grandson of Darth Vader (to save his sister and the Rebellion). The shadow of Darth Vader looms large upon the entire sequence, so fittingly the shadow of his theme looms heavily upon the score.

 

THIS. 

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