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THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

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You can't really reproach anyone the edits on the album, because there are 78:40 on the CD. There was simply no space any more. They should have replaced "Who Are You?" with another action cue from the finale.

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For no reason whatsoever, I just can't see Disney sitting on complete scores for twenty odd years with the sequel trilogy.

 

Williams and his scores probably cost a fortune. Why not monetise the hell out of them? There's clearly a market and Williams himself seems more open minded these days with expansions, under the correct supervision.

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12 hours ago, crumbs said:

For no reason whatsoever, I just can't see Disney sitting on complete scores for twenty odd years with the sequel trilogy.

 

Williams and his scores probably cost a fortune. Why not monetise the hell out of them? There's clearly a market and Williams himself seems more open minded these days with expansions, under the correct supervision.

 

 

The prequels are almost 20 uears old now..

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9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The soundtrack market is laughingly miniscule for a big company as Disney.

 

Releasing complete soundtracks isn't a priority in any way.

I don't think they have enough Frozen albums yet!

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10 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

There's an interview I found on Wiki with Rian Johnson talking about that scene, and said that John "really enjoyed himself" writing the music for that particular shot. So yes, it was intentional.

link please :)))

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Although the joke is fun and Williams clearly had fun with it, but does anyone kind of hate it that the scene was like a spoof film like a joke Airplane would do? And scoring it with a theme that doesn't make sense for the scene as well, it all just shows how ridiculous this new trilogy has become.

 

(I enjoyed the joke btw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea.)

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16 hours ago, lemoncurd said:

I think it's a good example for this film not taking itself too seriously, which is great. 

 

True. But there's a difference between light-hearted fun and just a parody of itself.

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18 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Although the joke is fun and Williams clearly had fun with it, but does anyone kind of hate it that the scene was like a spoof film like a joke Airplane would do? And scoring it with a theme that doesn't make sense for the scene as well, it all just shows how ridiculous this new trilogy has become.

 

(I enjoyed the joke btw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea.)

I can't say I like it, but I did have a little grin when first saw it for just how novel it was. Not sure if I'll enjoy it a second time round...

 

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19 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Although the joke is fun and Williams clearly had fun with it, but does anyone kind of hate it that the scene was like a spoof film like a joke Airplane would do? And scoring it with a theme that doesn't make sense for the scene as well, it all just shows how ridiculous this new trilogy has become.

 

(I enjoyed the joke btw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea.)

I think this special joke was not inappropriate, since it contributes to the story as a great introduction to the next scene (Finn and Rose having stolen the clothes). The "reach out"-scene is another example. The joke contains something important for the story by emphasizing Rey's naivety.

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Humor is so incredibly subjective, that I don't look so much into whether a joke landed or not. Personally, I laughed my ass off of the reaching out and Yoda's "page-turners" remarks.

 

What matters about humor in a film like this is how well its integrated into the narrative. Done right, it can be used to leverage suspense and darkness. For that to work, it needs to be spontaneous and understated. Something like Poe's hang-up routine may be funny to some, but I think anyone can see that it doesn't really fit into the opening "James Bond" action scene of this film.

 

Other jokes I would just cut for the sake of the runtime. I mean, Chewbacca's run-in with the Porgs feels like an in-universe commercial break. There is a cutaway to the Caretakers (I believe in the cours of Rey's training, a rock is dislodged at their cart) that I rolled my eyes at, which is to say nothing of how detailed this film is with Luke's daily routine: WHY did I need to see him mil that, that...that thing? WHY?

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The humour in TLJ is hit and miss for me, though mostly miss. I laughed at Poe's interaction with Hux at the beginning, but thought Luke tossing the light sabre over his shoulder fell awkwardly flat.  The Yoda "page turner" line was funny, but not really something I think Yoda would say (which I guess is what's supposed to make it funny).  The Chewie/Porg stuff did sort of take me out of the movie, but it was cute and harmless enough, but the Luke's daily routine stuff just didn't work at all for me.

 

And while not a joke, I thought the "You look ridiculous in that mask" line was squarely taking the piss out of over grown Star Wars fans, particularly cosplayers.

 

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22 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Although the joke is fun and Williams clearly had fun with it, but does anyone kind of hate it that the scene was like a spoof film like a joke Airplane would do? And scoring it with a theme that doesn't make sense for the scene as well, it all just shows how ridiculous this new trilogy has become.

 

(I enjoyed the joke btw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea.)

1

 

I've always associated the 4 note motif with the Empire itself rather than the Death Star since I believe it was used for Star Destroyers as well.

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It is played as a Star Destroyer is heading back to the Death Star. Again, more than being applied to the Star Destroyer, its more a way for Williams to introduce this motif as early as he possibly can.

 

Williams was very specific about what this motif means. Its undoubtedly a motif for the Death Star. 

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I wouldn't take this as a very "romantic" application of the leitmotif: it doesn't take much thinking to realize why its there. Its not like leitmotives need to represent what's readily apparent on the screen.

 

I personally prefer the Howard Shore school of thought. Williams does this often enough that it somehwat "cheapens" some of the themes, to me. After eight scores, themes such as the Rebel Fanfare and The Force theme have been, very unfortunately, reduced to generally "triumphant music" and "melancholic music" accordingly, which is a shame.

 

Not to mention the way Shore creates sets and subsets of related themes, the way he uses the opening of the film as an overture or entr'acte, the way he uses the third score as a summation of the existing thematic material, etc. On the level of the leitmotivic construction, its in a whole other level.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Humor is so incredibly subjective, that I don't look so much into whether a joke landed or not. Personally, I laughed my ass off of the reaching out and Yoda's "page-turners" remarks.

 

What matters about humor in a film like this is how well its integrated into the narrative. Done right, it can be used to leverage suspense and darkness. For that to work, it needs to be spontaneous and understated. Something like Poe's hang-up routine may be funny to some, but I think anyone can see that it doesn't really fit into the opening "James Bond" action scene of this film.

 

Other jokes I would just cut for the sake of the runtime. I mean, Chewbacca's run-in with the Porgs feels like an in-universe commercial break. There is a cutaway to the Caretakers (I believe in the cours of Rey's training, a rock is dislodged at their cart) that I rolled my eyes at, which is to say nothing of how detailed this film is with Luke's daily routine: WHY did I need to see him mil that, that...that thing? WHY?

 

1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

The humour in TLJ is hit and miss for me, though mostly miss. I laughed at Poe's interaction with Hux at the beginning, but thought Luke tossing the light sabre over his shoulder fell awkwardly flat.  The Yoda "page turner" line was funny, but not really something I think Yoda would say (which I guess is what's supposed to make it funny).  The Chewie/Porg stuff did sort of take me out of the movie, but it was cute and harmless enough, but the Luke's daily routine stuff just didn't work at all for me.

 

And while not a joke, I thought the "You look ridiculous in that mask" line was squarely taking the piss out of over grown Star Wars fans, particularly cosplayers.

 

 

The most misplaced joke might be the rock on the cart, because it does interrupt this impressive moment. It's funny, but it does not belong there. The flatiron, the milking and the porks are very classic Star Wars humor in my opinion, because it had that unique grotesquely charming. Neither of those jokes interrupted the flow of the narrative, because they served either as transgressions or explanations, and that's the deciding aspect in that matter.

 

The scene where Luke throws the lightsaber away was not intended to be funny at all. It's shocking!

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6 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

 

 

The most misplaced joke might be the rock on the cart, because it does interrupt this impressive moment. It's funny, but it does not belong there. 

 

The scene where Luke throws the lightsaber away was not intended to be funny at all. It's shocking!

 

Yes, exactly. Just felt like a cutaway gag. It was begging for a laugh-track.

 

6 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

The flatiron, the milking and the porks are very classic Star Wars humor in my opinion, because it had that unique grotesquely charming. Neither of those jokes interrupted the flow of the narrative, because they served either as transgressions or explanations, and that's the deciding aspect in that matter.

 

I don't have a problem with those jokes, per se, I just would have cut them for time. There is enough humor to be wrung from Luke and Rey (like I said, that reaching-out killed me) that you don't need all that stuff, and it just adds to this film's already egregious pacing and runtime.

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1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

In my experience, a film being praised for not taking itself too seriously is rarely a good thing.

I have not followed the reception of this film very closely but I'm aware that there are apparently many disappointed fans, especially people who experienced the original trilogy in cinemas. Which seems odd to me. Disappointment means you had expectations and in this case I just can't imagine how anyone could live up to that. We're talking about movies that have been made 42, 39 and 36 years ago, becoming one of the biggest pop culture phenomenon and releasing a never before seen hype and merchandise. I think it's impossible to create a new movie that is original and in the same "spirit" as the old ones at the same time. You can go retro like TFA and please the fans but then it's not really original, right? TLJ also drew heavily from original storylines but in my opinion the best thing that couldve happen is indeed a film that doesnt take itself too seriously. 

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50 minutes ago, lemoncurd said:

TLJ also drew heavily from original storylines but in my opinion the best thing that couldve happen is indeed a film that doesnt take itself too seriously. 

 

I've only seen it once so far. I couldn't say what I thought of it afterwards, and I still can't. I'm curious to see how a 2nd viewing will change my reception. TFA improved a lot, because most things that bothered me on the first viewing I could shrug off as minor annoyances or indeed appreciate as goofy humour. I'm not so sure TLJ will fare as well, because most things that bothered me seemed to be fundamental problems of using out of character (or sometimes out of plot) humour to lighten the mood, quite often in places where the mood isn't supposed to be light in the first place (excellent example: The Rey/boulder/fish monk moment).

 

It's the same issue that ultimately killed the Hobbit films (along with ever more exaggerated plot lines) and it's been around for a while. You could see it slowly creeping into the LOTR films, which is why ROTK, while in many regards the best of the series (with the story coming to its conclusion, it has to be) also has the most problematic moments.

 

And it's alwayas called "not taking yourself too seriously", as if treating a serious plot line seriously is wrong. There are plenty of ways to include humour while still taking yourself appropriately seriously. But when characters do out of character stuff or a film does "out of narrative stuff" (like the ironing scene), it essentially breaks the fourth wall (by saying "Hello audience, look, we're funny"). And when it's done in a film that, at the core, tries to tell a convincing story in a convincing world (as opposed to, say, a Monty Python comedy), I call it taking yourself not seriously enough.

 

4 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

You mean films that destroy seriousness with inappropriate gags.

 

Not always, but often, yes.

5 minutes ago, zeekypttr5678 said:

 

I'd much rather watch a film that doesn't take itself too seriously as opposed to a film that takes itself far too seriously (I'm looking at you Batman V Superman)

 

I haven't seen that and I have no interest in seeing it either. But if its problem is that it doesn't make enough fun of itself, then it's either a comedy that's not funny enough, or it's a drama (in whatever shape) that's not dramatic enough to make you accept that it isn't a comedy.

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16 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

I really love the march Kylo’s theme gets in “Peace and Purpose.”  Feels almost like Williams has adapted it into a longer lined melody, which is appropriate since Kylo has finally become a “complete” character upon ascending to rule the First Order.

That march-like development was exactly what I wanted to hear, hopefully it can further develop into a broader march for Kylo.

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On 1/6/2018 at 1:20 PM, Taikomochi said:

I really love the march Kylo’s theme gets in “Peace and Purpose.”  Feels almost like Williams has adapted it into a longer lined melody, which is appropriate since Kylo has finally become a “complete” character upon ascending to rule the First Order.

Same/

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