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THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

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I think it's safe to say Phasma's dead, short of re-appearing in IX covered in burn scars.

 

I suppose it could be the running gag of the trilogy, considering she should've been dead after the trash compactor on Starkiller Base, but reappeared in TLJ.

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That's what my buddy said - she's dead. I'm not so certain. Darth Maul not only fell down a reactor shaft he was also cut in half. He wasn't dead though.

 

I was actually waiting for Snoke's torso to float up in the medium/wide shot of Hux. It looked like he was using some mechanical type legs when he got up and walked around. But no, he stayed down. Missing both arms to which was rather effective. Great death to a character who was powerful but not as smart as he thought he was. Rey even calls him out the same way Luke did.

 

Those calling this film just a re-hash of Empire sure forget how much happens in Return of the Jedi. And that the Star Wars Universe is cyclical. 

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8 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Can we all agree that the Force Theme and Rebel Fanfare are both over-used at this point? 

 

With the Rebel Fanfare, I figure he's making up for all the lost time on the prequels (where it only makes one appearance, if I'm not mistaken). As for the Force theme, yeah. Though I feel like it wasn't used as much in TFA as people are thinking.

 

Also, after seeing the film again, probably just wishful thinking, but I thought I heard a different main title recording.

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I don't think its an outright quote, its just the signs of Johnson's temp-track. There's also some Battle of the Heroes in this, some Anakin's Betrayal, etc..

 

Just try to sing the sanskrit lyrics along - if you can't, its not quite the same melody.

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One of the things that Williams does with his album arrangement is to avoid too much repitition of themes that might occur in the unabridged composition, so the album isn't much of an indication here: The Force theme permeates the film to no end.

 

I'm less bothered by it being used for something other than The Force. I don't recall it happening too often, and Williams has been known to do that: see the toppeling of the walker in Empire Strikes Back, and a whole lot of statements in Attack of the Clones. That's just the way Williams uses themes.

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It feels like the Force theme has just become his default sad/melancholic/ruminative theme.

 

Just wish he'd use the second phrase of the theme more regularly, not just the first phrase over and over again.

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35 minutes ago, crumbs said:

It feels like the Force theme has just become his default sad/melancholic/ruminative theme.

 

Unfortunately, that's very true. The Force theme's role in all of these episodes has been something that sets Williams' creation apart even from the much more leitmotivically intricate works of Wagner and Shore, in that this one theme not only acts as a throughline of the entire work but also, in doing so, recurs for a much larger number of times than any leitmotives in the latter two catalogues: I think untill this latest score, it was just under 100 appearances.

 

But now, I can't help but feel that this has become a weakness and that, in insisting on that theme, it has lost some of its identity and a lot of its effect.  

 

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

It feels like the Force theme has just become his default sad/melancholic/ruminative theme.

 

His, or the directors'?

 

I like to think that, given the choice, Williams wouldn't use it as much as he did, and that a lot of those statements were the directors' requests: "Maybe we could put the Force theme here? And here, too, possibly? And why not here? When was the last Force theme statement, again? 10 minutes ago? Maybe we should put another one here, just to make sure the audience doesn't forget the melody..."

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I actually didn’t mind the force theme while watching the film because I think it’s largely appropriate when used, even for the instances where it sorta doesn’t apply like Finn’s speech at the beginning of The Battle of Crait. On album, it gets a little tiresome, but, nonetheless I love the variations in “The Last Jedi” and “Peace and Purpose,” the latter being one of the most moving renditions Williams has yet written.

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In defense of the "Battle of the Heroes" cameo: That moment shares as much intervallic DNA with Rose's theme as it does with BotH. Which makes sense given

Spoiler

her sister dies at that moment.

 

 

Also, to say that moments sounding too close to the temp-track detract from the score's quality, is a complete non-argument IMO. This was already part of SW music in 1977.

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Does anyone else think that Williams lost the opportunity to compose a theme for the Kylo/Rey dynamic? I think it was the heart of the movie and should have its own theme, and play in full force when they are fighting together. Also, would have been awesome to hear the “Wills” theme from Giacchino’s Rogue one when the Jedi books are shown, but I know that it is asking to much :)

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Just now, saulocf said:

Does anyone else think that Williams lost the opportunity to compose a theme for the Kylo/Ren dynamic? I think it was the heart of the movie and should have its own theme, and play in full force when they are fighting together.

 

Pretty good idea. Yeah, would have been nice. Maybe it'll be the main new theme for Episode IX? ;)

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1 hour ago, Remco said:

Also, to say that moments sounding too close to the temp-track detract from the score's quality, is a complete non-argument IMO. This was already part of SW music in 1977.

 

Yes, but since this film his little to do with Revenge of the Sith, the connection that this semblance creates is very puzzling.

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53 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

Yes, but since this film his little to do with Revenge of the Sith, the connection that this semblance creates is very puzzling.

 

More than 'Star Wars' has to do with Le Sacre Du Printemps or King's Row, I would say. Anyway, I thought the tone of the music fits the movie well.

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Loved the film and the soundtrack, but I agree wholeheartedly that the Force theme is a dead horse. I was highly annoyed to hear the music for the last ten seconds of the film - that's three films in a row that have ended with nearly identical variations on the Force theme (though I do enjoy TFA's expansion of this musical moment). And with so much to work with - the "Jedi Steps" theme, Luke's new theme, Luke's old theme, etc. - there's no excuse for such an overreliance on the Force theme.

 

I'll throw another opinion out: There's too much music. Kylo Ren's scene in the elevator didn't need to be scored with that brassy blowout (adapted straight from the TFA end credits). Sometimes silence is the best music. I loved the moments in TFA where Williams' score was dialed out, like Rey's introduction and Hux's speech. Not because the music was bad, but because it would have gotten in the way.

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1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

The Force Theme is the main theme of this 9 movie saga, its the spine.

 

It's the chorus/refrain to the great, rhyming poetry of it all!

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2 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Has anyone taken a count of how many times the Force theme appears in every film?  We may be surprised.

Well, it is the most frequently used theme in ROTS and it is the second most used theme in AOTC. I'm not sure about TFA.

 

Karol

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6 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

His, or the directors'?

 

I like to think that, given the choice, Williams wouldn't use it as much as he did, and that a lot of those statements were the directors' requests: "Maybe we could put the Force theme here? And here, too, possibly? And why not here? When was the last Force theme statement, again? 10 minutes ago? Maybe we should put another one here, just to make sure the audience doesn't forget the melody..."

I definitely see this being the case. The collaboration JW had with Lucas is sorely missing in these 2 new films. 

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1 hour ago, Henry Buck said:

I was highly annoyed to hear the music for the last ten seconds of the film - that's three films in a row that have ended with nearly identical variations on the Force theme (though I do enjoy TFA's expansion of this musical moment).

 

100% agreed! It was such a disappointing way to round off the film. Felt almost parodic by that point, the number of times the Force theme had been wheeled out. A stirring, optimistic rendering of something like the Resistance march would have been a much more satisfying way to close the story.

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I think the use of binary sunset as the ending music is totally a director driven decision. Prior to TFA, binary sunset was only used once to end a Star Wars film, ROTS in an obvious "it rhymes" Lucas parallel. That was also s director driven decision. No other music made sense there.

 

But in the case of TFA and TLJ other music could have made plenty of sense and JW has always written original music leading into the end credits, excepting ROTS. I think Johnson temped with it and asked for it.

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The Force Theme is the main theme of this 9 movie saga, its the spine.

 

Well it seems Williams clearly has very little to say with at this point. At least TFA had some nice variations on that material.

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Yeah, after a day's discussion, we know the TLJ OST Main Titles are 100% the same recording as the TFA OST version, but we're not sure yet if it's the recording used in the movie.

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So this version of the Theme on the CD is directed by Gustavo Dudamel.

 

Finally, the final credits of TLJ score is : Co-Conducted by John Williams, William Ross and Gustavo Dudamel.

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26 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I think the use of binary sunset as the ending music is totally a director driven decision. Prior to TFA, binary sunset was only used once to end a Star Wars film, ROTS in an obvious "it rhymes" Lucas parallel. That was also s director driven decision. No other music made sense there.

 

But in the case of TFA and TLJ other music could have made plenty of sense and JW has always written original music leading into the end credits, excepting ROTS. I think Johnson temped with it and asked for it.

 

TLJ's ending is a parallel to the binary sunset scene, too. TFA doesn't have the parallel, but it's also hard to think of a more fitting theme to end that film on (what with the dramatic reintroduction of Luke).

 

I agree the repetition is frustrating, but it's easy to see why. I wish JW had played it a little differently this time, though.

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