The Last Jedi SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes....i guess.

 

But he didn't look that different to me in the Prequels though 

[Wojo 2,453]

Oh shit, this is the spoiler thread. 

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

17 minutes ago, Gistech said:

One question I forgot to ask: Yoda - puppet or CGIbomination?

 

Looked like a combo to me. Yoda had work done. His cheeks were far too puffy. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes.

[Ollie 1,059]

Hmmm when dead 34 years, look so good you will not.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

2 hours ago, Joe Brausam said:

Throughout the film they spent time setting up that these projections could effect the character on the other side.  Such as Kylo feeling pain from Rey’s blast shot and getting water on his hands while communicating with Rey in the rain.

 

luke’s exertion coupled with some very possible physical consequences are what killed him, at least that’s how I interpreted it.

 

Good point. Hadn't thought of that (though, when I saw the scene with Kylo, Rey and the blaster, I assumed Ren stepped back more as a reflex than actual pain. But yeah, I guess it makes sense).

 

11 minutes ago, DigitalfreakNYC said:

Looked like a combo to me. Yoda had work done. His cheeks were far too puffy. 

 

Yeah, it was weird. On some shot, it looked CG, on others, it looked like a puppet. Maybe a puppet with CG enhancements?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anyone liked the scene with hundreds of Rey's?

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

It was OK. Not exactly sure what it was meant to represent for the character.

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

Anyone liked the scene with hundreds of Rey's?

 

 

 

You mean the scene that went  on forever and went nowhere? Just another tease? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Tease? What do you mean? It's Rey going to the place of the Dark Side to try and find the answer about her parents.

 

Did we see the same movie?

[LOTRHobbitFan 20]

What did you guys think about the Finn/Rose storyline? I thought it was a bloated, unnecessary mess with no great purpose to the film. I mean... all that screen time just to try and remove a ship tracker. IMO, this was one of the most boring parts I have ever seen in a Star Wars film and I noticed other people in the cinema were unimpressed.

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Tease? What do you mean? It's Rey going to the place of the Dark Side to try and find the answer about her parents.

 

Did we see the same movie?

 

We did.  And did she find the answer?  Nope.  So it was all just a tease...that went nowhere. 

[crocodile 7,973]

Very confused film. Some good stuff, some bad stuff. It was clever and dumb in equal measure. But hey, at least it was different. I really don't know what to think of it.

 

A very confused score as well.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, DigitalfreakNYC said:

 

We did.  And did she find the answer?  Nope.  So it was all just a tease...that went nowhere. 

 

She did find the answer. But the Dark Side didn't give it to her.

[Alex 2,833]

Well.. that was different. Not sure what I was expecting but it wasn't that. Some truly epic moments coupled with some very weird/questionable ones. Far better than TFA though. Overall I think it was a very impressive film. Will go into more detail when I've had time to digest it.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Big Prequel reference with Darth Sidious names on screen. Suck it haterzzz 😬

 

Im hoping for an Arkham Knight style scenario where Luke’s ghost follows Kylo around for Episode IX tormenting him. 

 

Also, the sacred Jedi texts being in the Falcon in the end. Neat. 

[Hurmm 91]

All I know is that I'd rather have Rian Johnson then Abrams back for the final movie. He knows how to stage a climax. 

[Holko 9,491]

I have no idea what to think of this one yet. It has some of the best scenes of the saga, but some very questionable ones also. Random thoughts incoming.

 

Yoda was a puppet, but looked like his grandma got to him and started pulling his cheeks until they stayed that way, deforming his skull and making him look like he's always grinning with a closed mouth. I don't know how that became a final, screen-used design.

Almost everything on Canto Bight was stupid and ultimately pointless. I get what it's trying to say, but it's a beaten message, and WAY too much time is wasted on this subplot which is just a failed mission.

Snoke's death was unexpected this early. I thought we'd find out soemthing about where he comes from and how he's so strong with the Force. The Praetorian guards were defeated very easily.

That Leia scene... Everyone in the room just went what? and I expected the Superman Fanfare to kick in. It looked really, REALLY stupid.

By the third flachback to how Ben turned on Luke, I was just laughing. "No, here's how it really happened!" "No, listen here, this is how it REALLY happened!"

The score I didn't notice too much of. There was Rose's Theme and Rey's Theme and the Resistance March and all kinds of nice callbacks, but it really wasn't my main point of focus. By the time I see it again next week, I'll know the OST inside out, that'll help.

Visually, it was amazing. I saw it on the biggest screen I ever sat in front of in my life (OK, mybe some LTP screens were bigger but that's not the point there), and I can name at least a handful of shots off the top of my head I would hang on my wall.

It's easier to miss negative stuff, but I really loved the opening, Atch-to, Rey and Ben banding together, Luke, even his end, the bleak hopelessnes of it all... it all has to sit for a little whicle until I can form a complete opinion. Seeing it again next weekend will certainly help.

 

I liked Rey's parents being nobodies much more than I thought I would if that would turn out to be the case. Of course JJ can still turn it around so that Ben lied to her to turn her, and make is an even bigger mystery which will only be revealed in Ep. 12.

[crocodile 7,973]

Does he though? This film feels bit choppy and unfocused. Pacing is way off and the score plays a catch-up instead of driving the narrative. Character writing seems inconsistent. Some special effects look really bad as well. It's a bit of a mess all over.

 

And the most memorable and poignant moment in the film ended up being...Laura Dern's death scene?

 

One more thing. Did anyone had this feeling this felt like an ending chapter rather than a middle one? Not many loose threads left... In fact there's only one of any real significance...Kylo. And now that Han, Luke and Leia are out of the picture it doesn't really have any emotional stakes.

 

Karol

[Holko 9,491]

Yeah, many of the events and twists felt like they belonged in the third act of a story instead of the second. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Chen G. 3,940]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Did anyone had this feeling this felt like an ending chapter rather than a middle one? Not many loose threads left... In fact there's only one of any real significance...Kylo. And now that Han, Luke and Leia are out of the picture it doesn't really have any emotional stakes.

 

Well, most film trilogies are constructed with the first film having a temporary ending and the second film ending on a somewhat unresolved note, e.g. the first Star Wars trilogy. Here, they made the first film in a trilogy like that (much like The Fellowship of the Ring) and you can't do that for two movies in a row. You'll just be jerking the audience around too much without payoff.

 

Also, keep in mind that they don't have this trilogy planned out in any way. Each filmmaker writes his own story and screenplay. And yes, this film might do a disservice to the trilogy as a whole, and I do think that creating the conclusion of Episode IX would bog Abrams down. We shall see.

[Incanus 5,713]

A very uneven film. Some brilliant parts (anything with Hamill in it was pure gold for me) and then not so brilliant parts (the whole running out of fuel and Rose and Finn storyline).

 

Quote

I thought it quite poignant. To me Luke didn't just die randomly. He expired after extreme physical/mental effort.

 

I agree with BB. Hamill was epic in this.

Hamill's was without a doubt the best performance in the film. Brilliant.

 

An interesting detail about the final duel between Kylo and Luke was that when he projected himself from across the galaxy, it was the younger dark bearded short haired Luke that appears, not the old haggard one. Which should have been a clue that something is off. I missed it in all the excitement. Also the bracelet/dice Luke gives to Leia vanishing after Kylo picks them up was a nice touch as it was all a projection after all.

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Big Prequel reference with Darth Sidious names on screen. Suck it haterzzz 😬

 

Im hoping for an Arkham Knight style scenario where Luke’s ghost follows Kylo around for Episode IX tormenting him. 

 

Also, the sacred Jedi texts being in the Falcon in the end. Neat. 

 

Oh and the tree is obviously meant to evoke the Jedi Temple from the prequels (the temple is obviously supposed to be based on the tree in universe). Nice little touch!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Bruce Willis was Luke all along!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

So how does this film fit in the Looper cinematic universe? Will we see JGL in the next one?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit 

[Incanus 5,713]

You could almost say

[SF1_freeze 131]

A very uneven film indeed. The biggest thing that bugs me is that the backstory with the Republic and the Resistance is so dumb that you really can't take the sequel trilogy serious anymore - it's almost a parody by this point! Nothing makes any sense, if you start to think about the state of the galaxy!

I hoped TLJ would solve this problem that was introduced in TFA but i was wrong. It even made it worse!

After TLJ everything good that was achieved in the OT (the end of the dictatorship and the installation of a democracy in the form of the New Republic, the New Jedi Order, the achieved Peace in the galaxy) is now gone -> it invalidates the complete OT and kind of resets everything in the dumbest way possible.

(Also Luke dying without even one last cool lightsaber fight was an additional bummer!)

• The Starwars Galaxy always made sense in the OT and PT. It was a living breathing universe of thousands of worlds with its own "magical" elements like the Jedi but it made sense within its own rules. The different fractions reacted naturally and their power levels and influence were explained in the films themselves. The state of the galaxy was plausible and understandable!
• Both Sequel films completely fuck this up, by disregarding all other planets, fractions and systems apart from the planets our main characters visit. In addition apart from Canto Bight all of these planets are sort of isolated remote worlds which play no role in the greater galaxy.
• The new films follow the logic of a 5 year old kid. If you destroy the main system of the republic (2-3 planets in close proximity including the capital world, then magically the whole republic is destroyed. They even want to make us believe the Republic is so stupid to station the main part of its military force only in this one system?!?!)
• The Republic is a union of hundreds of star systems with thousands of worlds. Of course at any given point substantial parts of the Republic military are on all kinds of missions out in the galaxy and located on other spread out military bases. All these ships and sector fleets are still intact and alive after the Starkiller base attack. Still in TFA its is said that the republic fleet was destroyed - WTF - this can't be the case!
• In the opening crawl of TFA and also in General Hux speech before the Starkiller attack it is mentioned that the Republic government supports the "Resistance". This makes no sense without further elaboration (which is sadly not given in both films). If the Republic as the main military and ruling force in the galaxy supports the Resistance, then a resistance isn't even necessary. The Republic and the Republic military would solve the job themselves. What does the name "Resistance" even mean, what do they resist? The main ruling and military power is the Republic, did they resist both the Republic and the First Order in TFA?
• Then in TLJ the Resistance suddenly has a Mon Calamari cruiser and three smaller ships, but the Republic military still is nowhere to be seen. Where do these ships come from and why weren't they part of the Starkiller Base Attack? Also other fractions are nowhere to be seen -> the whole sprawling starwars galaxy is just completely disregarded and instead we follow this 4-ship Resistance "fleet" as it is hunted down and destroyed one by one till only 20 people survive. The only mention of a greater starwars galaxy is their emergency signal on Crait to alert potential allies in the outer rim but no one seems to answer....

The sequel trilogy is a trainwreck of a story!

 

I really liked the new TFA JW score and the energy and playfullness especially with the returning TFA themes. I love Rose theme and the Canto bight source music. Also the Fathiers track is fantastic and reminds me of the TOD score.

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Chen G. 3,940]

I wouldn't look too much into the mechanism of the world, but yeah, it is disheartening to see this trilogy rob the existing sextet of the achievements of its characters. Since Abrams is at the helm of the concluding chapter, I'm not hopeful in terms of getting a satistfying conclusion to the trilogy, much less the entire nonet.

[SF1_freeze 131]

16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I wouldn't look too much into the mechanism of the world, but yeah, it is disheartening to see this trilogy rob the existing sextet of the achievements of its characters. Since Abrams is at the helm of the concluding chapter, I'm not hopeful in terms of getting a satistfying conclusion to the trilogy, much less the entire nonet.

 

What? Since when is it okay for films not to make any sense anymore???

 

I certainly won't switch off my brain like in your standard blockbuster. The Starwars universe deserves much more and George Lucas and Lucasfilm delivered for more than 40 years till the Disney sellout. Starwars always had this sprawling and plausible world since 1977. Look at the PT and OT films in conjunction with the books and computer games. It all made sense!

Now suddenly Disney ruins all that with the ST and we just shall accept that? Thats why it is a parody for me. I can't take these films serious anymore. George Lucas made it work for over 40 years and DIsney with the ST suddenly completely fucks this up!

[Barnald 365]

43 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

A very uneven film indeed. The biggest thing that bugs me is that the backstory with the Republic and the Resistance is so dumb that you really can't take the sequel trilogy serious anymore - it's almost a parody by this point! Nothing makes any sense, if you start to think about the state of the galaxy!

I hoped TLJ would solve this problem that was introduced in TFA but i was wrong. It even made it worse!

After TLJ everything good that was achieved in the OT (the end of the dictatorship and the installation of a democracy in the form of the New Republic, the New Jedi Order, the achieved Peace in the galaxy) is now gone -> it invalidates the complete OT and kind of resets everything in the dumbest way possible.

(Also Luke dying without even one last cool lightsaber fight was an additional bummer!)

• The Starwars Galaxy always made sense in the OT and PT. It was a living breathing universe of thousands of worlds with its own "magical" elements like the Jedi but it made sense within its own rules. The different fractions reacted naturally and their power levels and influence were explained in the films themselves. The state of the galaxy was plausible and understandable!
• Both Sequel films completely fuck this up, by disregarding all other planets, fractions and systems apart from the planets our main characters visit. In addition apart from Canto Bight all of these planets are sort of isolated remote worlds which play no role in the greater galaxy.
• The new films follow the logic of a 5 year old kid. If you destroy the main system of the republic (2-3 planets in close proximity including the capital world, then magically the whole republic is destroyed. They even want to make us believe the Republic is so stupid to station the main part of its military force only in this one system?!?!)
• The Republic is a union of hundreds of star systems with thousands of worlds. Of course at any given point substantial parts of the Republic military are on all kinds of missions out in the galaxy and located on other spread out military bases. All these ships and sector fleets are still intact and alive after the Starkiller base attack. Still in TFA its is said that the republic fleet was destroyed - WTF - this can't be the case!
• In the opening crawl of TFA and also in General Hux speech before the Starkiller attack it is mentioned that the Republic government supports the "Resistance". This makes no sense without further elaboration (which is sadly not given in both films). If the Republic as the main military and ruling force in the galaxy supports the Resistance, then a resistance isn't even necessary. The Republic and the Republic military would solve the job themselves. What does the name "Resistance" even mean, what do they resist? The main ruling and military power is the Republic, did they resist both the Republic and the First Order in TFA?
• Then in TLJ the Resistance suddenly has a Mon Calamari cruiser and three smaller ships, but the Republic military still is nowhere to be seen. Where do these ships come from and why weren't they part of the Starkiller Base Attack? Also other fractions are nowhere to be seen -> the whole sprawling starwars galaxy is just completely disregarded and instead we follow this 4-ship Resistance "fleet" as it is hunted down and destroyed one by one till only 20 people survive. The only mention of a greater starwars galaxy is their emergency signal on Crait to alert potential allies in the outer rim but no one seems to answer....

The sequel trilogy is a trainwreck of a story!

 

I really liked the new TFA JW score and the energy and playfullness especially with the returning TFA themes. I love Rose theme and the Canto bight source music. Also the Fathiers track is fantastic and reminds me of the TOD score.

 

 

 

This kind of thing bothered me from the moment I saw The Force Awakens. And it's basically because Disney wanted Rebellion vs Empire all over again, with the odds stacked against the former, without giving any thought to (in-world) logic.

[Chen G. 3,940]

10 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

 

What? Since when is it okay for films to not make any sense anymore???

 

I certainly won't switch off my brain like in your standard blockbuster. The Starwars universe deserves much more and George Lucas and LUcasfilm delivered for more than 40 years. Starwars always had this sprawling and plausible world since 1977. Look at the PT and OT films in conjunction with the books and computer games. It all made sense!

Now suddenly Disney ruins all that with the ST and we just shall accept that? Thats why it is a parody for me. I can't take these films serious anymore. George Lucas made it work for over 40 years and DIsney with the ST suddenly completely fucks this up!

 

I wasn't saying not to look into it at all. I was saying not to look into it too much, because there will always be cracks. The galaxy far, far away is just the setting for a narrative, no more, no less. And yes, it needs to feel cohesive and tangible and grand, but its not like its a comprehensively figured-out world that makes perfect sense.

 

Having said that, I share some a lot of your outlook. You watch Return of the Jedi and witness the defeat of the Empire, and not 30 years later The First Order not only rose to power but gained so much power that it can completely out-perform the Empire, it seems, in some of its feats (e.g. Starkiller Base). hmm...

 

[Incanus 5,713]

9 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

 

What? Since when is it okay for films not to make any sense anymore???

 

I certainly won't switch off my brain like in your standard blockbuster. The Starwars universe deserves much more and George Lucas and Lucasfilm delivered for more than 40 years till the Disney sellout. Starwars always had this sprawling and plausible world since 1977. Look at the PT and OT films in conjunction with the books and computer games. It all made sense!

Now suddenly Disney ruins all that with the ST and we just shall accept that? Thats why it is a parody for me. I can't take these films serious anymore. George Lucas made it work for over 40 years and DIsney with the ST suddenly completely fucks this up!

I am sort of happy I don't have such emotional connection to Star Wars.

 

This way I can reserve all my scatching criticism on Peter Jackson's Hobbit films.

 

And yes if you scratch the surface of these new SW films, not a whole lot about the setup and the world as it is makes much sense.

[Barnald 365]

1 minute ago, Incanus said:

I am sort of happy I don't have such emotional connection to Star Wars.

 

This way I can reserve all my scatching criticism on Peter Jackson's Hobbit films.

 

Coward!

[Chen G. 3,940]

2 minutes ago, Incanus said:

I am sort of happy I don't have such emotional connection to Star Wars.

 

Me too. I do appreciate how enduring it is as a series, but to me the only outstanding film of the entire affair was, and still is, Empire Strikes Back.

[SF1_freeze 131]

2 minutes ago, Incanus said:

I am sort of happy I don't have such emotional connection to Star Wars.

 

This way I can reserve all my scatching criticism on Peter Jackson's Hobbit films.

 

What has a film making sense and having a plausible believable backstory to do with an emotional connection?

[Chen G. 3,940]

What he means is that when you don't have an emotional connection to the series, the flaws don't irk you quite as much.

 

Doesn't mean you don't notice them.

[Incanus 5,713]

3 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

 

What has a film making sense and having a plausible believeable backstory to do with an emotional connection?

You clearly really care about Star Wars to be able to summon up such a strong reaction to these films. And I am not saying it is a bad thing.

 

For those of us who are not as invested the unfortunate lack of logic or stumbling world building doesn't entirely demolish our enjoyment in these movies.

[Chen G. 3,940]

That's kind of how I am with the prequels.

 

They're deeply flawed. But most of those flaws don't make me want to punch a hole in the screen the way Star Wars fans do.

[SF1_freeze 131]

2 minutes ago, Incanus said:

You clearly really care about Star Wars to be able to summon up such a strong reaction to these films. And I am not saying it is a bad thing.

 

For those of us who are not as invested the unfortunate lack of logic or stumbling world building doesn't entirely demolish our enjoyment in these movies.

 

I watched quite some films with lots of potential, where i had no emotional connection whatsoever, that failed miserably in my eyes because the backstory made no sense. So even though i had no connection to these films, the substantial story failures ruined these films for me and made me lose any interest.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Chen G. 3,940]

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

it basically makes the victory at the end of ROTJ pointless.

 

That was always going to be an issue with more Star Wars films. When Lucas spoke of nine films, his idea was - in very wide broad strokes - to the stretch what we've come to know as the "original trilogy" over six films, rather than three.

 

And yes, the old cast could have been portrayed with more dignity.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The victory at the end of ROTJ is that they blew up another Death Star and the Emperor is dead. 

 

Never once was it stated in that film that evil was destroyed forever, it doesn't even state that the Empire has been destroyed.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Ever heard of the Thrawn Trilogy Starwars books of the now officially alternate starwars canon. This is an original story much better than the ST, which doesn't diminish anything achieved in RotJ and also has a plausible backstory that makes sense involving the whole Starwars Galaxy.

So this is easily possible, if an author really cares.