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SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Interesting how Lee always complaints about JWfan being in the doldrums, yet once it gets active he whines about that.

 

 

He said it to one of his actor friends, who was in The Force Awakens, who then told the media....

 

JJ is a master in viral marketing Karol, please.

JJ wouldn't lie to me!

 

Karol

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I think net-net TFA was a much more elegantly made film. Rendered in gentler strokes rather than the grand radical gestures of this film but overall TFA achieved a pleasing balance between its various elements and what it was trying to do and delivered a compellingly wrought film.

 

This is more radical and bolder certainly but also has more flaws, mainly with some strange plotting choices.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Serkis's performance was FANTASTIC, and the special effects were GREAT!  Everything about him was better than he was in TFA.

 

Serkis was very good, and the effects were better.

 

But for someone who's supposed to some all-knowing Force-sensitive person, who could read Rey's and Ren's thoughts miles ahead, he wasn't so hard to kill now, was he?

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12 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

Trust Disney to make Star Wars a franchise for little girls.

Every male in this film is portrayed as an incompetent boob and each female is a strong resilient leader or influencer. 

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8 minutes ago, KK said:

 

Serkis was very good, and the effects were better.

 

But for someone who's supposed to some all-knowing Force-sensitive person, who could read Rey's and Ren's thoughts miles ahead, he wasn't so hard to kill now, was he?

 

Ben just thought his thoughts smartly. What Snoke sensed him think was him turning his lightsaber (he turned his lightsaber at the same time he turned Luke's) and him getting his saber ready (Again, did it at the same time) to strike down his greatest enemy (which Snoke in his hubris assumed was Rey when in fact it was him).

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I really hate this trend of calling everything "...'s ending expained" instead of "Rian Johnson comments on the ending" or something. Are people really this dense, they need this spelled out for them?

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To be fair in this case, the headline is:  "The Last Jedi spoiler talk: Rian Johnson explains deeper meaning behind that ending"

 

The only time anyone is going to see the URL is if some mstrox schmoe idiot posts the URL into a message board without link text.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

I had hopes Snokes was in fact Plagueis.

 

Making Snoke a character that finally has no interrest is... without interrest.

 

We already know, that at the end, Ben Solo will sacrifies himself to fatally damage the First Orders plans and so, make the Rebellion win.

 

That's as dull as that.

 

Yoda and Luke Force ghosts will be high on weeds and laughing about all that.

 

How many new Star Wars movies before they make a connection with the Marvel universe?

 

I say 2.

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I loved loved loved the resolution to the Snoke thing.  Snoke wasn't even really a mystery in TFA.  He was a bigass hologram guy who was "the boss." 

 

We eventually understood Palpatine in the prequels, but once upon a time, he was a bigass monkey human hybrid hologram who ended up being the powerful boss.  From 1980 to 1999, we didn't ask or need anything more than that, nor did we get it.  He was just a cool, powerful bad guy.

 

The whole fact that it just HAD to be a twist seems to be completely created by Internet Star Wars fans and theorizers, and I never understood it.  A twist that Snoke was actually Darth Plagueis would not have been a functional twist - as Johnson states in his abovelinked interview, it would have meant nothing to Rey.  And unspoken, but more importantly IMO, it would have meant nothing to the vast majority of viewers - just 0.05% of fans who read all the literature and come up with fan theories.

 

22 minutes ago, Bespin said:

We already know, that at the end, Ben Solo will sacrifies himself to fatally damage the First Orders plans and so, make the Rebellion win.

 

If I walked out of TLJ knowing absolutely nothing about Episode IX, I would vehemently disagree with you.  Johnson attempted to idiot-proof the Kylo thing, making Rey and Luke both come to the realization that Ren is unredeemable.

 

BUT, JJ Abrams is back in the chair for IX, so all bets are off in that regard.

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I do think some explanation was owed. We aren't talking about a normal human or something. He was specifically shown as the twisted mangled remains of some centuries old creature with a peculiar voice and manner about him. You can't just put that in and not think the audience wants an explanation.

 

You can't just say he's just like that. Explanation is necessary when you show something weird or out of the ordinary. Had they just shown a normal Sith Lord, I don't think people would be clamoring for explanation but the way Snoke is set up at least demands some explanation.

 

 

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OK ok ok...

 

This trilogy is born in 2015, it's made for a new generation of fans, so we don't go back too far... if not, Rey will not know what is going on.

 

Okay, now I get it.

 

Sorry... just another question... What's the utility of Kathleen Kennedy again?

 

 

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I can't wait for this scene in Ep9:

 

Rey: "We need help to save the galaxy."

Ghost Luke: "You need the saviors... you need the protectors...you need the Guardians of the Galaxy."

 

Music Composed by Tyler Bates.

Original Star Wars Themes by John Williams.

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But even the older generation of fans, the vast vast majority of them would have no clue who Darth Plagueis is.  Nobody but the fanniest of fans is going to remember that one line from the slow part at the beginning of Episode III where Palpatine says "I killed that guy!," and find it meaningful in Episode VIII.  Even fewer will know anything about the (non-canon) books about him.  As a big reveal, it would have landed like a fart on the screen.

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6 minutes ago, mstrox said:

But even the older generation of fans, the vast vast majority of them would have no clue who Darth Plagueis is.  Nobody but the fanniest of fans is going to remember that one line from the slow part at the beginning of Episode III where Palpatine says "I killed that guy!," and find it meaningful in Episode VIII.  Even fewer will know anything about the (non-canon) books about him.  As a big reveal, it would have landed like a fart on the screen.

 

Even the older fans didn't know what those dice were. I don't recall Han having gold dice... there are plenty of nods to the past films that only major fans get. Darth Plageius would have worked fine and actually made Snoke relevant. Instead of another old villain in a throne room.

 

 

A simple scene of Snoke saying "Do you really believe you were going to come here and kill me? Hahaha, I cannot die so easily. Darth Sidious failed, as shall you." That would have said so much to the fans without confusing anyone who doesn't know Plageius.

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Yes it was very moving. My favourite scene along with the Yoda one. But my point is they aren't exactly a big reference for everyone to understand. So clearly small references weren't dismissed, thus they could have easily referenced Plageius

 

I think we can all agree that giving us the impression of Snoke being a mystery and especially flashbacks etc of Rey's parentage mystery, to then just say haha fuck you guys, they are just themselves. Nothing to see here. It's a little weak storytelling. Classic mistake of not planning out this trilogy before they started. And not having one central writer for all 3.

 

Just an fyi, I really liked the film, but there are a lot of flaws, mostly due to the shit left by TFA.

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we see Luke taking them from the cockpit in TLJ->Luke gives them to Leia

 

Even without the visuals in the previous movie (clearly seen in SW, Han touching them in TFA), there's a set-up for the dice in this movie.  We see where they come from and thus, understand them.  They're a totem of emotional relevance that brings a sense of resolution to Han/Leia's story while also, in their passing, giving a compassionate moment to wrap up the Luke/Leia story (and giving a kicker to the emotional Kylo when he briefly finds them later).

 

What is the story or character or emotional relevance to Snoke being Plagueis?  The only way to set it up is to have Luke tell Rey about Plagueis on Ach-to for some reason, and even hen there's no story-based relevance to Snoke being Plagueis for any character - not even Luke, the most versed person alive in Jedi/Sith history.  Every character from the prequels (where Plagueis - his DEATH, mind you - is mentioned one time)  is dead.   None of the characters in this movie, and virtually none of the audience besides the people that follow online theories, would really care. 

 

What is gained from the word Plagueis being said onscreen? I can't think of anything besides a tally mark to throw on the brief Wookieepedia entry for Darth Plagueis.

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True. Good point. I'm speaking mostly on behalf of those fan theory type fans. I would be lying if I said I wouldn't like perhaps some pay off to Rey's parents and Snoke but I prefer the fact that Snoke is out the way now so Kylo can be the big bad. He is an infinitely more enthralling character. And Rey not being anything special, makes her arc more interesting because as Kylo said 'you crave parents, that why you are attatched to Han, Leia, Luke' etc. Because you want someone important to care about you, because your parents didn't.

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24 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I think we can all agree that giving us the impression of Snoke being a mystery and especially flashbacks etc of Rey's parentage mystery, to then just say haha fuck you guys, they are just themselves. Nothing to see here. It's a little weak storytelling.

 

I had a small handful of problems with TLJ (I liked it more than many around here, apparently), but its handling of TFA questions wasn't one of them. 

 

To me, Snoke was never a mystery - he was Kylo's boss.  In the same way that, say, General Hux isn't a mystery, and Maz Kanata isn't a mystery, and Finn isn't a mystery, and Poe isn't a mystery.  These are the characters in the new movie - what you see going forward is their story.

 

Rey's parents - that was something that TFA actively questioned and toyed with.  Their being nobodies - not just randos, but actually LESS THAN nobodies - lowlives who sold their daughter for booze and died in some pauper's grave - works beautifully for me, in the sense that it informs the character of Rey and her stakes, helps her come to define herself on her own terms at the end of the film, and gives Kylo leverage on her when attempting to turn her.  Some people are less happy, but I thought it was swell.

 

On the other hand, my least favorite mystery from TFA (how Maz Kanata came to owning Luke's lightsaber) is kind of irksome to me, in the sense that it suffers from the same small-universe syndrome that TLJ's "answers" help it avoid.  I'm glad it wasn't mentioned in TLJ.  Whatever the answer is, it's likely to be irrelevant to the story at large.  I'll accept it as a garbage, cheap storytelling flaw of TFA and hope it never gets mentioned again, except maybe in some one-off comic or novella somewhere.

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6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

The problem is that he's presented as this big powerful motherfucker of a villain...

 

THAT was one of my nits to pick with TLJ.  Seeing him exert the force in such a crazily powerful way felt, to me, like an unnecessary escalation.  The sith lords and other dark siders from the first six movies, TV series, canon literature, etc weren't able to do some of these things.  Vader didn't Force-interrogate Leia in SW - he used a robot with a bunch of needles on it.

 

Honestly, I felt the same way about Luke's projection, and Kylo in TFA when he did things we had never seen before - stopping a blaster bolt with his mind, ripping memories out of people's heads with the force, etc.  And the bland lightsaber gymnastics of the prequels.  Things don't necessarily need to be bigger and better to make them exciting/compelling.

 

The Luke thing, I'm coming around to it - but ONLY because it showed the stakes of using the Force in such a huge way (i.e. being reeeeeal dead).  Time will tell, when I get around to a second viewing, if it works for me

 

12 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

...yet he's easily killed like a dumbass by Kylo Ren,

 

I also thought that was kind of dumb.  At the same time, I'm glad it happened because it opened up story options, gave us a temporary good and evil team-up, and got us away from an ROTJ redux.  I'll have to see how that plays on second viewing as well.

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

My question is still: How did Kylo Ren know who Rey's parents where?

 

The explanation he gave after they chopped up all the red guys is that he gleaned it from her when they made physical contact (touching hands after Rey's dark side cave vision and them talking about her parents).  That she knew it in her heart of hearts and buried it or hoped otherwise, and he got it from her.

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