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SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

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I agree with Pub that SW jokes are usually kinda forced and not really that funny (even in the OT). But there are still certain jokes that feel right in the universe, e.g. the porg-eating bit with Chewie. I actually loved the porgs - it's classic SW to have little gags with cute characters.

 

Jokes I didn't like: I can't remember too many specifics now, but I think a lot of the Hux stuff was a little un-Star Wars-y. 

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I've been travelling for work for ten days and just got back yesterday and finally saw the film last night.  Still processing, and haven't had a chance to read any comments yet, but damn...a loud, busy movie and sort of a mess.  And that ending....

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8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Its not very funny.

 

 

 

Shouldn't it be; “that’s not very damn funny!”

5 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

 

Speaking of walkers, how on earth did they get down there? There were some on Snoke’s cut-in-half ship, so there could have been some on the remaining Star Destroyers I guess, but how were they delivered? 🤔

 

 

Probably the same way they got down to Hoth in TESB. They may have been on the regular star destroyers as part of the arsenal.

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12 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

These are rather pointlessly nitpicky problems, but I'm not sure if Johnson even read his own script to be honest. Leia did the Superman thing, but they were trapped at the end because of some rocks...why didn't Leia just move them. They said there was only one way out the old base, yet everyone was outside in trenches, then somehow got back inside. Also Phasma's armour is blaster-proof, but she surrended to Finn on Starkiller base in TFA when he held a blaster at her... sometimes I wonder if the filmmakers and Disney were awake when making some choices.

 

The more I think about it, the more it feels to me that RJ purposefully went out of his way to shit on everything JJ set up in TFA (childish Luke lightsabre toss being a prime example).

 

I can't believe Kathleen Kennedy allowed this film to be released in this form (Rogue One gets major reshoots to fix what exactly, Solo directors get fired and RJ does as he pleases)?

 

What exactly was the point of Leia's space float and incapacitation? If the intention was to establish Holdo as a future leader going forward with the films, it would have made sense, but Holdo died so what story purpose did it serve? It really should have been Leia that stayed behind, isn't that what leaders do (go down with the ship)? It would have given the character a poignant finale, rather than what will presumably be an off-screen death in Ep IX.

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2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

What exactly was the point of Leia's space float and incapacitation? If the intention was to establish Holdo as a future leader going forward with the films, it would have made sense, but Holdo died so what story purpose did it serve? It really should have been Leia that stayed behind, isn't that what leaders do (go down with the ship)? It would have given the character a poignant finale, rather than what will presumably be an off-screen death in Ep IX.

 

That whole Leia surviving space and floating back in was absolutely ridiculous.  The most pathetic thing ever done in Star Wars, and there's been some ridiculous things. I sat there in the cinema almost laughing (right after feeling emotional because I thought she was dead.) It was awful and I remember saying to myself "oh no, this film just isn't good. It's terrible." Thankfully it had some saving moments so I ended up enjoying it as it went on from there, but Rian Johnson jumped the shark so much that the shark wasn't visible below him.

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Another thought just comes to mind: There's a great moment preceding Leia's flying trick where Kylo aims at her ship and they sense each other. There's a fantastic (if over-drawn) match cut that fades from his face to her and vice-versa, and he chooses not to shot, but his accompanying TIE-Fighters do.

 

We never see Kylo's reaction to what he would think is his mother's death, nor do we see him informed of her survival. There's never another moment in this entire film that deals with Leia and Kylo, except for Leia conveniently just acknowleding that her son is beyond saving.

 

Why? Because Johnson wanted to subvert yet another fan anticipation about Kylo being turned (or being capable of turning back to good) just for the sake of being subversive. I never wanted Kylo to turn (nor Rey), but to use it to undermine what would have made for a good emotional core is dissappointing.

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Also, Kylo hesitates to fire, looking all conflicted, etc., but has no issue killing his mother in the cave on Crait. So what happened between these two scenes to change his mind? This is pure RJ engineered misdirection designed to fool viewers into thinking that Kylo will turn, when in fact he never intended to.

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On 13/12/2017 at 6:54 PM, BloodBoal said:

It's a SW Disney movie we're talking about. It's clear how they want to market that franchise. This scene is basically no different than TV spots to sell lightsaber toys.

Did Disney go from trying to sell toy lightsabers to kids to selling them broomsticks?

I thought that was what Harry Potter was for! :lol:

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5 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Also, Kylo hesitates to fire, looking all conflicted, etc., but has no issue killing his mother in the cave on Crait. So what happened between these two scenes to change his mind?

 

That I'm fine with. Its his arc in the film.

 

An arc of reaffirmation can be just as powerful as an arc of change.

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5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Another thought just comes to mind: There's a great moment preceding Leia's flying trick where Kylo aims at her ship and they sense each other. There's a fantastic (if over-drawn) match cut that fades from Why? Because Johnson wanted to subvert yet another fan anticipation about Kylo being turned (or being capable of turning back to good) just for the sake of being subversive. I never wanted Kylo to turn (nor Rey), but to use it to undermine what would have made for a good emotional core is dissappointing.

 

Makes me think Disney/LFL employed a legion of people to monitor online forums and social media to file fan theories about what might happen in the movies, and Johnson's job was to avoid realising those theories as much as possible, just to ensure no fan theory was accurate before the fact.

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Disney think they are giving the majority of fans what they want, in order to make money of course, but in fact what they're really doing is showing how out of touch with the fans they really are. 

 

One person I read put it perfectly;

"I didn't wait 30 years to see my childhood hero again on-screen, to just have him become a runaway coward who would contemplate killing his own nephew. Where is the man who refused to kill Darth Vader because he believed he could be saved?" 

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9 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

"I didn't wait 30 years to see my childhood hero again on-screen, to just have him become a runaway coward who would contemplate killing his own nephew. Where is the man who refused to kill Darth Vader because he believed he could be saved?" 

 

You know, when I first saw that moment, I thought it was excellent.

 

But than, thinking back about how Luke was so insistent on not killing his father, that moment is completely out of character. At that point in time, Luke has no reason to be in such a dark frame of mind as to attempt to kill his own kin.

 

Also, its his nephew, and the son of his best friend. Had he went through with it, what would he have done? sent them a refund?

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13 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Also, its his nephew, and the son of his best friend. Had he went through with it, what would he have done? sent them a refund?

 

 

"Dear Parents,

I regret to inform you that your son has been killed...by me. He seemed a big bad so I had no choice but to decapitate him. Please find enclosed the refunded first months tuition fees. 

 

Sorry for your loss.

 

Your faithfully,

Your twin brother and best friend."

 

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Not at all, which is why I liked it the first time around.

 

But, thinking about it, he refused killing his murderous father at what was the most trialing period of his life, only to attempt to do something far worst in a period of time where he was much better off.

 

Doesn't add up. Not in the slightest.

 

14 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

"Dear Parents,

I regret to inform you that your only, teenage son has been killed...by me, his only other family in the world. He seemed a big bad so I had no choice but to decapitate him in his sleep. Please find enclosed the refunded first months tuition fees. 

 

Sorry for your loss.

 

Your faithfully,

Your twin brother and best friend."

 

 

Fixed!

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I suppose this is one of the disadvantages of having different writers. For all his faults, at least Lucas knew what he wanted and seemed to have a clear story for each character (although he had trouble executing his ideas by the time the prequels came around)

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I don't get over Empire. It was up on television not a day after I watched The Last Jedi. Its a nigh-flawless motion picture: the only detriment it has is the C3PO humor and an excessive use of the Imperial March.

 

I'm actually not a huge fan of the original Star Wars (I am not calling it A New Hope!). The dialogue and the acting isn't quite there yet, and its too children-oriented compared to Empire and to these latest forays into Star Wars.

 

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Interestingly, the things I I most concerned about going in to this turned out okay (for me at least), namely porgs and the handling of the opening crawl.

 

It's the WTF moments that turn me off this. For example, these saga films are supposed to be about the Skywalker family. Every prior episode has irised out on at least one Skywalker. This one has some random kid sweeping a street.

 

I honestly thought that the film would end when the Falcon jumped to hyperspace. Next thing we have this clumsy mid-credits-esque micro scene that should have been left on the cutting room floor. If it had to stay, they should have rather made it an after-credits scene, even though it goes against the standard SW formula. At least that way the iris out would have made sense.

 

By the way, what happened to force ghosts not being allowed to be shown because of China?

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1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

Disney think they are giving the majority of fans what they want, in order to make money of course, but in fact what they're really doing is showing how out of touch with the fans they really are. 

 

One person I read put it perfectly;

"I didn't wait 30 years to see my childhood hero again on-screen, to just have him become a runaway coward who would contemplate killing his own nephew. Where is the man who refused to kill Darth Vader because he believed he could be saved?" 

 

 

Star Wars fans should be embarrassed by what they’ve become.

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So I was thinking, towards the end when Luke apologises to Leia for what happened to Ben Solo, where was Leia's apology?

 

You know, for squandering the rebellion's military victory at the end of Jedi. For not adequately preparing the New Republic for the inevitable threat of the remains of the Empire? For essentially completely negating the sacrifices of everyone who died fighting for freedom from Revenge of the Sith onward.  All those sacrifices, including the rebels in the battle of Scarif...in vain.  And where was the genius military mind of General Holdo during the period? 

 

So yeah, let's put Luke's mistake in context. Everything in the galaxy would be exactly where it is without the evil Kylo Ren, who at best is a oversized but inconsequential figure in the First Order.  Leia, on the other hand, has quite a bit to answer for actually.

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6 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

The more I think about it, the more it feels to me that RJ purposefully went out of his way to shit on everything JJ set up in TFA (childish Luke lightsabre toss being a prime example).

 

I can't believe Kathleen Kennedy allowed this film to be released in this form (Rogue One gets major reshoots to fix what exactly, Solo directors get fired and RJ does as he pleases)?

 

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Another thought just comes to mind: There's a great moment preceding Leia's flying trick where Kylo aims at her ship and they sense each other. There's a fantastic (if over-drawn) match cut that fades from his face to her and vice-versa, and he chooses not to shot, but his accompanying TIE-Fighters do.

 

We never see Kylo's reaction to what he would think is his mother's death, nor do we see him informed of her survival. There's never another moment in this entire film that deals with Leia and Kylo, except for Leia conveniently just acknowleding that her son is beyond saving.

 

 

Good points in these posts!

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

So I was thinking, towards the end when Luke apologises to Leia for what happened to Ben Solo, where was Leia's apology?

 

You know, for squandering the rebellion's military victory at the end of Jedi. For not adequately preparing the New Republic for the inevitable threat of the remains for the Empire? For essentially completely negating the sacrifices of everyone who died fighting for freedom from Revenge of the Sith onward.  All those sacrifices, including the rebels in the battle of Scarif...in vain.  And where was the genius military mind of General Holdo during the period? 

 

So yeah, let's put Luke's mistake in context. Everything in the galaxy would be exactly where it is without without the evil Kylo Ren, who at best is a oversized but inconsequential figure in the First Order.  Leia, on the other hand, has quite a bit to answer for actually.

 

Hey that's a good point too!

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1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

I honestly thought that the film would end when the Falcon jumped to hyperspace. Next thing we have this clumsy mid-credits-esque micro scene that should have been left on the cutting room floor. If it had to stay, they should have rather made it an after-credits scene, even though it goes against the standard SW formula. At least that way the iris out would have made sense.

 

I think, beyond the first act and the first half of the second act, this also contributes to the film's pacing issues: That it ends an entire sequence too late.

 

The film feels like it could conclude with Holdo's suicide run: By that point, we had our fill of action and the arcs of the two main characters (Rey and Kylo) have concluded, hence Rey's absence from the actual climax. 

 

But the film than reveals this to be only the beginning of the third act, and reveals that its true protagonist is Luke. I'm fine with that, but if that's the case, the actual third act had to be much more concise.

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11 hours ago, LOTRHobbitFan said:

The moment Luke throws away his own lightsaber in a cheap, cheesy manner, the dreaded un-Star Wars-like feeling sinks in and does not leave until the end credits roll in. Disappointing.

 

Religiosity - Watching the humor in the last 7 Star Wars and not seeing it as cheap, cheesy, or dreadful.

 

I feel like I’ve woken up in a mirror universe where Star Wars humor is anything more than awkward groan worthy. It has always been so, by intent. Maybe the aspergers fans who spend their lives interacting with movies and imaginary situations instead of real people think this is real humor?

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