The Last Jedi THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)

[Chen G. 3,948]

49 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

But it goes against the idea that many here have, that Williams' new SW scores are, what was it, "music in the sense of Wagnerian Leitmotiv". 

If that was truly the case, a composer with the chops of John Williams could come up with a piece of music for these things, instead of just using a theme that doesn't make sense.

 

Using the Wagnerian leitmotivic structure doesn't necessarily negate the possibility of using themes "romantically." Wagner did it, man did Strauss do it, and even Shore did it - it's about how frequently it happens in the work.

 

When used very sparingly, I actually like this technique. It allows for beautiful leitmotifs, that would otherwise be too few and far between in their appearances, to appear once more, and possibly earlier in the work, and grow on the audience more, often in association with powerful moments.

 

Williams does use it a bit too much for my taste, but not nearly so much that it undos the structure of the piece as a whole. By comparison, look at Horner: I love the score to Braveheart, but so many of the leitmotifs are used so very often for their romantic effect that to this day I have no idea what most of them are supposed to represent.

 

Its also a question of just how nebolous the use of the theme is. Leia's theme doesn't belong at Ben's death, but at least she's there so it's not completely out of left field. Yoda's theme for the evacuation of Cloud City, however....

 

And yes, it's dissappointing to see a score so deriviative of its temp-track, not to mention the direct lifts that exist in the motion picture itself. It just feels like Johnson was too enamored with his temp track and wanted Williams to mimic it, and where he didn't - Johnson just put the temp in the film.

 

The Hobbit is a different beast, however. The way they go about recording those films is very different. And, as it is with this movie, when the tracked music is good and suitable, I don't mind it nearly as much.

[Alex 2,835]

I think the first track is my favourite ever opening to a Star Wars movie.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I think the reason why I'm feeling so positive on The Last Jedi's soundtrack so far is because it addressed the major concern I had with TFA - the action music.

It seems like such an oddity to me in Williams career of writing exciting, thrilling and propulsive action pieces to get the meandering and stripped down 'Follow Me and the Falcon' or the bland 'The Rathtars'. I like Scherzo for X-Wings but it is represented god-awfully in the actual film, practically hacked to pieces with micro-edits.

TLJ in the other hand, oh my goodness. Probably owed to the fact there's a lot more action in this respective film, but any kind of action set piece is so thrilling and energetic, some even having some memorable leit-motifs the like I haven't heard since the prequel trilogy (The Fathiers/The Battle of Crait). I think it may be owed to the sound-mix this time around, the brass sounds absolutely glorious and not too dry like it was in TFA, everything sounds much more full and powerful. 

Right now I have to say 'The Escape' is my favourite part of the score, amazingly fun and rousing action writing combined with a very poignant dramatic shift which always makes me tear up a little. Not to mention some fantastic renditions of March of the Resistance. 

[Alex 2,835]

This score reminds me a lot of Prisoner of Azkaban. JW is clearly on top form here and there are some outstanding individual cues (we must remember that he is 85(!) years old) but I do agree with some of the previous comments that there isn't really an "identity" as such. 

[King Mark 3,630]

There's a large amount of brassy action music that's unreleased .I saw the film tonight

[ocelot 508]

Finally iTunes!!!!!

 

Listening to the first track and all I can say is.... FINALLY, My Woodwinds are back in full force! I missed you!!!!!!!

[Jay 37,337]

So.  Track #7 "The Rebellion is Reborn" is undoubtedly 100% a concert arrangement.  It blends the only two new themes in the score, Rose's Theme and Luke's new theme.  I can't believe anyone thought that was a theme for Holdo, or that it was a Resistance theme, or a military motif, or anything like that.  It's introduced on a scene entirely centered around Luke, and plays loudly for a long while with barely any sound effects of dialogue over it.  Maybe it can be a considered a Luke/Rey training theme, but it only plays in two scenes IIRC so its hard to say for sure.  I wonder if he originally used it more and it got replaced.

 

The OST seems to basically be in chronological order, but a few tracks may have scenes from 2 different scenes in the movie combined together.  Not much though.

 

The film's end credits were almost the same as the OST's, but one section was different.  The opening of the end credits are pretty rushed because he had to time it to play the piano Leia's theme for Carrie's dedication card.

 

The OST probably has all the right highlights, but the film is frickin' scored wall to wall more or less, so even at 77 minutes - really 73 minus the concert arrangement - we only have like half of the complete score here.  I noticed some really good unreleased stuff but I'll talk about that in the right thread.

 

This album is great and still has a lot to offer despite not being anywhere near complete.

[King Mark 3,630]

42 minutes ago, ocelot said:

Finally iTunes!!!!!

 

Listening to the first track and all I can say is.... FINALLY, My Woodwinds are back in full force! I missed you!!!!!!!

 

lol, you didn' t illegally download it 2 days ago

 

 

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

The film's end credits were almost the same as the OST's, but one section was different.

 

 The full second part of Rebellion is Reborn is in the film credits

[filmmusic 1,825]

Does anyone see what Hal Leonard suite could come out of this?

Apart from track 7, I don't see anything else.

The Force Awakens had those new themes and concert versions that were Sheet music suite material.

[Jay 37,337]

It doesn't make too much sense to ask what concert tracks could come out of the OST album.

 

It's more a question of, what concert tracks could come out of the complete score?

 

I'd say a track for Acht-To featuring the new Luke theme and the Jedi Steps could work.

 

A concertized version of The Fathiers could work.

 

A better version of the End Credits with better transitions could work.

 

A Rose's Theme concert arrangement would be fine.

 

And The Rebellion Is Reborn is already good to go as is.

[Amer 2,095]

Rose's Theme is lovely and has a waltz like vibe to it. If this gets a concert arrangement then I would very much like to see it developed into a more expressive arrangement. 

[filmmusic 1,825]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

It doesn't make too much sense to ask what concert tracks could come out of the OST album.

 

It's more a question of, what concert tracks could come out of the complete score?

 

I'd say a track for Acht-To featuring the new Luke theme and the Jedi Steps could work.

 

A concertized version of The Fathiers could work.

 

A better version of the End Credits with better transitions could work.

 

A Rose's Theme concert arrangement would be fine.

 

And The Rebellion Is Reborn is already good to go as is.

The thing is:

All the previous Star Wars suites (sheets) were comprised by pieces that were IN the albums, Right?

I don't see Williams having written NEW pieces for concerts/sheet music publishing.

If he had, I'm sure they would have been included in the ost.

 

edit: Maybe just one theme is released like AOTC (Across the stars) and ROTS (Battle of Heroes).

I'd say this is more likely.

[King Mark 3,630]

didn't Williams write some of TESB concert versions afterwards?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, filmmusic said:

All the previous Star Wars suites (sheets) were comprised by pieces that were IN the albums, Right?

 

Incorrect.

 

Jabba's Theme, for instance. The Asteroid Field, Han Solo & The Princess.

[KK 3,307]

I wouldn't be surprised if "A Rebellion is Born" is the only concert piece to come out of this. There aren't many other

concrete sequences here that would sound great in concert form. 

[Jay 37,337]

2 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

The thing is:

All the previous Star Wars suites (sheets) were comprised by pieces that were IN the albums, Right?

I don't see Williams having written NEW pieces for concerts/sheet music publishing.

If he had, I'm sure they would have been included in the ost.

 

Well, clearly The Rebellion is Reborn is the only concert arrangement on the entire OST.

 

As for writing stuff just for the concert hall after the recording sessions are done, he does that all the time.  Lincoln, Book Thief, BFG and TFA all have them!

Even back in 2008, he wrote an entire new arrangement of Marion's Theme that wasn't recorded for the IJ4 ost.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, king mark said:

didn't Williams write some of TESB concert versions afterwards?

 

Here They Come and The Last Battle were written after too.

[King Mark 3,630]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Well, clearly The Rebellion is Reborn is the only concert arrangement on the entire OST.

 

As for writing stuff just for the concert hall after the recording sessions are done, he does that all the time.  Lincoln, Book Thief, BFG and TFA all have them!

Even back in 2008, he wrote an entire new arrangement of Marion's Theme that wasn't recorded for the IJ4 ost.

not to mention Harry Potter

[filmmusic 1,825]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Incorrect.

 

Jabba's Theme, for instance. The Asteroid Field, Han Solo & The Princess.

?

The Asteroid Filed and Han Solo & The Princess are in the ost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_Strikes_Back_(soundtrack)

 

or maybe they're not the concert versions? I'm not familiar with the ost. Anyway

[Jay 37,337]

The Harry Potter suites WERE recorded at the recording sessions, he just didn't put them all on the OST.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, filmmusic said:

?

The Asteroid Filed and Han Solo & The Princess are in the ost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_Strikes_Back_(soundtrack)

 

He mean the concert tracks that have the same name, which are different from the album tracks by those names (which contain film cues)

[King Mark 3,630]

yeah the real concert arrangement of Han solo and the Princess is not on the OST

[TheUlyssesian 2,476]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

The Imperial March.

 

Is there any other instance in the series where it is used in this format?

[filmmusic 1,825]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

He mean the concert tracks that have the same name, which are different from the album tracks by those names (which contain film cues)

OK, yes, I edited my post earlier.

Still, what I meant in essence is that even those are based on the material of the soundtrack or the complete score if you like.

I don't see here any NEW material that warrants for a concert suite.

this is what I meant.

[Jay 37,337]

You're spending a lot of time in these Star Wars threads for someone who claims to not like this score and constantly saying JW shouldn't be scoring them

[King Mark 3,630]

Imperial March has a unique arrangement on the ESB Gerheart c.d.

[filmmusic 1,825]

Just now, Jay said:

You're spending a lot of time in these Star Wars threads for someone who claims to not like this score and constantly saying JW shouldn't be scoring them

???

I'm just discussing the score. is that wrong?

Am I supposed to write only in threads that I love the score and keep praising it?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

You're spending a lot of time in these Star Wars threads for someone who claims to not like this score and constantly saying JW shouldn't be scoring them

 

You're noticing too?

[nightscape94 965]

Going through the OST right now.

 

The Sacred Jedi Texts is pretty great.  Just noticed a Yoda theme I didn't hear in the theater.

[filmmusic 1,825]

8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

You're noticing too?

Ok, For your information, I'm writing my dissertation on Williams, so even if i didn't want to be in this thread, I have to keep up with things.

 

Also, I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive about this score, as if they wrote it.

I merely discussed the suite options now and that I don't see any new material that could be concertized.

I didn't say this negatively, it was just a question/wondering..

 

And Jay, instead of wondering why i am here, could you please fix that post I reported earlier?

[Jay 37,337]

9 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

???

I'm just discussing the score. is that wrong?

Am I supposed to write only in threads that I love the score and keep praising it?

 

Of course not, I just think you like this score more than you let on

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Search your feelings, you know it to be true!

[filmmusic 1,825]

Just now, Jay said:

 

Of course not, I just think you like this score more than you let on

To tell you the truth, I'm trying to like it.

So this is one more reason to be in this thread and discuss it, in case I'm convinced.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good....gooood!

[nightscape94 965]

Almost done the OST and thankfully the Luke and Leia statement is on there.  Overall the OST is fantastic and a lot of fun. The Vader variation in "The Spark" is cool.  After I came home from seeing the film I went back and watched some trailers.  Was that used in one of them?

 

There's a lot of terrific action material, tender moments, and subtle choral stuff.  Great balance.  Overall I actually like this OST better than TFA.

[Jay 37,337]

Yea, it was used here:

 

 

[nightscape94 965]

Neato.

 

Nice version of Poe's theme in Peace and Purpose.

[Jay 37,337]

Right now my favorite parts of the OST are Luke's new theme at the end of Ahch-To Island and Old Friends.  I like it more there than in the concert arrangements (The Rebellion is Reborn and End Credits)

[King Mark 3,630]

Rebellion is Reborn could be my favorite Williams track of the decade

[Jay 37,337]

I just listened to Rebellion is Reborn again, and I think its probably my least favorite Williams concert arrangement in a long, long time.

 

EDIT: Woah, weird timing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's Tie Fighter Attack doing in the end credits?

 

Crazy!

[King Mark 3,630]

They just edited random bits of the score

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But why did Williams put it on the CD like that?

 

I guess it's like Mischief Managed.

[artguy360 1,843]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just listened to Rebellion is Reborn again, and I think its probably my least favorite Williams concert arrangement in a long, long time.

Agreed even though the majority of the material being Luke's island life stuff is actually really good. 

[King Mark 3,630]

I'm not even sure Williams assembled the end credits

[Jay 37,337]

1 minute ago, artguy360 said:

Agreed even though the majority of the material being Luke's island life stuff is actually really good. 

 

I love that theme but not this arrangement of it.

[artguy360 1,843]

1 minute ago, king mark said:

I'm not even sure Williams assembled the end credits

For the film or the OST because despite the film version being longer I think I like the OST version far more. The film version has way too much noisy, non-thematic action music in it. Doesn't feel right for an end credits suite.

[TheUlyssesian 2,476]

Sampling random tracks out of order on the DisneyVevo (haven't had a chance for a full listen unfortunately - that will have to wait for until after I see the movie on Friday).

 

But some initial thoughts

 

Rose's theme is good but a rather atypical SW theme? I think SW themes are slightly more dramatic with a heavier romantic sound. Rose's theme sounds very sweet. Something from Hook or Home Alone maybe. It's nice theme though. I appreciate that JW is trying to expand the palette.

 

The action music is a bit more driven this time, more strident or insistent. Might have to do with the fast cutting in the action scenes to match the rhythm of the images.

 

I think I heard a Quidditch action motif in one of the tracks.

[Jay 37,337]

Rose's theme makes more sense once you see the film.  Her character is super optimistic and lovey so the theme fits her.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I like Rose!

 

 

[Damien F 1,742]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Rose's theme makes more sense once you see the film.  Her character is super optimistic and lovey so the theme fits her.

 

If people are saying that her theme doesn't sound like Star Wars its probable because her character is quite new for the franchise. I don't recall a major character as optimistic and lovely as her before. She actually feels like a Harry Potter character.