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THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)


Jay

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I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts, as that's how both episodes IV and VIII begin with; a grand opening sequence involving the baddies pursuing the heroes.

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20 hours ago, artguy360 said:

As far as I can recall JW has never reused post-crawl intro music before. I find the quote of the ANH flute line completely baffling and not a good way to start the score.

 

I think the music straight after the crawl in AotC was lifted from TPM

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4 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts

 

Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored.

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1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

 

I think the music straight after the crawl in AotC was lifted from TPM

 

Actually you're correct on this one. Those meandering strings are the same for a few bars. But that didn't affect me as much as the piccolo, because to me it's like a signature for ANH.

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The FYC track has a different opening but I don't recall if the action occurs fast enough after the crawl for that music to work.  Is it possible the piccolo was tracked?

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7 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts, as that's how both episodes IV and VIII begin with; a grand opening sequence involving the baddies pursuing the heroes.

2 hours ago, gkgyver said:

Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored.

 

Not to mention over-compensating in terms of seeing leitmotives anywhere. Its just a little piccolo figure: It doesn't represent anything.

 

 

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1 hour ago, someonefun124 said:

The FYC track has a different opening but I don't recall if the action occurs fast enough after the crawl for that music to work.  Is it possible the piccolo was tracked?

 

No. The album contains the actual opening of the film right up to the Rebel Fanfare. After that "Anakin Takes Off"-esque note ends, the FYC track begins in the film.

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8 minutes ago, p0llux said:

Both have demerits. 

 

Fixed.

 

Really, I wouldn't mind it so much if this wasn't coming from a composer who always tried so carefully (and succeed) in crafting scores that were each based on predominantly on new thematic material. For him to abandon (yes, abandon) that way of work in the eighth score is understandable, but disappointing nonetheless. I suppose one can make excuses for it, but that's what they'll always be - excuses.

 

At the very least, we can agree its nowhere near top-tier Williams.

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Firstly, two wrongs (e.g. the lifts in Return of the Jedi) don't make a right.

 

Secondly, regardless of those quotes, those scores were largely made up of new material, as is Williams practice. Here, partially because there aren't as many new ideas to fall back on, it isn't. Those lifts are only emblematic of a greater issue with the score, which is that it is dominated by the thematic ideas of Star Wars and The Force Awakens, and often in very familiar statements. That is a first for a Star Wars score.

 

Or am I to understand that not only must we love this score, but we must love it as much as Wiliams' very best, or otherwise be deemed "close-minded"?

 

And lastly, I should clarify that I don't dislike this score. Its not my favorite Star Wars score, not by a mile, but I also don't think its my least favorite, either.

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While it is pastiche, there's nothing wrong with that when it's done with a bit of panache. TLJ surely is no masterpiece but neither SW nor Williams have delivered on that front in a long time. And i hardly blame Williams for that, he has to work what is handed to him and frankly, the way music in (blockbuster) movies handled today it's a minor miracle that he still does it. 

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20 minutes ago, publicist said:

While it is pastiche, there's nothing wrong with that when it's done with a bit of panache. TLJ surely is no masterpiece but neither SW nor Williams have delivered on that front in a long time. And i hardly blame Williams for that, he has to work what is handed to him and frankly, the way music in (blockbuster) movies handled today it's a minor miracle that he still does it. 

 

Agreed! 100%!

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4 hours ago, crocodile said:

It's like poetry. It fucking rhymes.

 

Karol

 

Williams SW Scores are usually poetry like this:

 

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow--
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

 

Last Jedi is poetry like this:

 

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow--
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet take this kiss upon the brow,
In a night, let me avow--
In a vision, you deem 
Is it my days that have been a dream?
In parting from you now,
Take this kiss upon the brow.

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Zimmer has written entertaining drama scores, i. e. Spanglish, As Good As it Gets, Driving Miss Daisy or Nine Months. 'Stepmom's meandering score is hardly proof of Williams' singular abilities (but it is also a terrible movie).

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I don't mind him. He's like the rude sibling in the family. We keep him around because he's part of the family. We need that balance here. 

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TFA and TLJ don't live up the OT scores but they're both still excellent.  Williams' golden years of film scoring are long over and we'll never hear an OT style score from him.  However, that doesn't mean his recent output is any less special. Film making in general (particularly blockbusters) and Williams' style have evolved quite a bit within the last 40 years.  I hope his music is continuing to inspire this generation much like he did every decade since the 70s.

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TFA feels more like an OT throwback whereas TLJ feels more in line with the prequels. It's pretty fun, like all the other scores were thrown in a blender and turned into something new.

 

I still think the complete score holds many discoveries.

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We all knew that TLJ would have to take a different direction and the way the film is paced means it's almost entirely scored action-heavy when we aren't on Ach-To. 

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On 1/6/2018 at 2:42 AM, igger6 said:

On second thought, I misused the word "grandfathered" and forced into the form of a disingenuous question what should have been a simple criticism of that lift.  As someone on the SoundCast said recently, that flute line felt like a part of ANH, and it didn't seem right to suddenly quote it at the opening of the eighth film when there was no precedent for callbacks in that spot.  ("Gotcha!" —Rian Johnson)  If this were the final film (as Johnson occasionally seemed to think he was writing), it would have been awesome, but sticking it in randomly in the middle of the saga didn't make sense to me.

 

Also, I haven't read every single page of the discussion, but has anyone pointed out that there's just enough original, memorable melodic material in "The Fathiers" for it to qualify as a one-off setpiece a la "Into the Trap" or "TIE Fighter Attack"?  I'd love to see that expanded into a TLJ concert suite, and I don't think it would take much doing.

 

I. The Rebellion is Reborn

II. Canto Bight

III. The Fathiers (Concert Version)

IV. The Spark/The Last Jedi (Concert Version)

 

We can dream!

If only!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Oh... my... god... it's been staring me straight in the face for weeks now. The choir is singing Rey's Theme here!

 

 

Can't believe I didn't pick up on this sooner! Especially seeing as I spent two years bitching about the lack of choir in TFA. :lol:

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Listen carefully to the strained and slowed down strings here:

 

It's a variation on this, closing with the same cadence as the opening bars of Rey's Theme (though in another key or something?):

 

Once you pick that up it unlocks the rest. It's not note-for-note but it's clearly derived from Rey's Theme.

 

Pretty confident the choir preceding it is the opening bar of Rey's Theme with an extra note towards the end (before the strings take over).

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