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THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)

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There's so much unreleased brassy goodness throughout the score, I'm sure there are more variations in the complete score.

 

Geez, how I already long for a Matessino expansion of this score. Incredible!

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6 hours ago, rjamerson said:

I can't find my liner notes for TFA but the musician list for TLJ looks bigger than what I remember for TFA.

 

My copy of TFA doesn't have a musician list.

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So, has anyone identified any themes beyond the two from "The Rebellion is Reborn"?

 

I'm not talking about some generic gestures (e.g. that piccolo in the opening), but things that are clearly intended as leitmotives that represent something.

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I have an issue with the general prequel-vibe of this score. These scores and films are supposed to be enjoyed in the narrative order of the episodes, but now the eighth episode heavily calls back, of all the previous entries, to what is supposed to be the third episode? There are half a dozen spots where it nearly quotes prequel themes, the SATB choir is back (albeit briefly), the chu-daiko is back, the mix is similar, etc...

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6 hours ago, someonefun124 said:

I'm probably one of the few who enjoys "The Cave" track.  I love Williams goes into a dark/moody/scary mode. I love the statement of Rey's theme, too.  I think this track could end up on the FYC with no problem.

 

:40 gives me POA vibes.

 

1:35 is the highlight of this cue. And I don't agree with the people saying it's the least interesting track of this OST.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

I have an issue with the general prequel-vibe of this score. These scores and films are supposed to be enjoyed in the narrative order of the episodes, but now the eighth episode heavily calls back, of all the previous entries, to what is supposed to be the third episode? There are half a dozen spots where it nearly quotes prequel themes, the SATB choir is back (albeit briefly), the chu-daiko is back, the mix is similar, etc...

 

Can you give a list of all the prequel quotes?

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7 hours ago, someonefun124 said:

I'm probably one of the few who enjoys "The Cave" track.  I love Williams goes into a dark/moody/scary mode. I love the statement of Rey's theme, too.  I think this track could end up on the FYC with no problem.

 

:40 gives me POA vibes.

 

 

I have always loved JW in that mode.

I have no idea what is wrong with the people here, I need to find a new fan forum.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I have an issue with the general prequel-vibe of this score. These scores and films are supposed to be enjoyed in the narrative order of the episodes, but now the eighth episode heavily calls back, of all the previous entries, to what is supposed to be the third episode? There are half a dozen spots where it nearly quotes prequel themes, the SATB choir is back (albeit briefly), the chu-daiko is back, the mix is similar, etc...

 

Can't believe you're bringing this up. Didn't you complain in many posts that Williams had lost his touch of writing music that was more complex, grand, or well... perhaps more 'prequel-esque'? And that it sounded too different to the London recordings? 

If anything, I find it tasteful that for the second movie in the trilogy, he briefly brought back the drums and choir to support the final act that was more dramatic than the one in TFA.

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43 minutes ago, Remco said:

Can't believe you're bringing this up. Didn't you complain in many posts that Williams had lost his touch of writing music that was more complex, grand, or well... perhaps more 'prequel-esque'? And that it sounded too different to the London recordings? 

If anything, I find it tasteful that for the second movie in the trilogy, he briefly brought back the drums and choir to support the final act that was more dramatic than the one in TFA.

 

That's not it. So much of the material itself sounds like near-quotes of themes from Revenge of the Sith. Its clear to me that Johnson really liked that score, and temp-tracked his film with it, and became so enamored with his temp-track that he made Williams follow it very closely. Since there is no thematic reason for this episode to, well, errr, "rhyme" with episode 3 of all films, it doesn't ring entirely true for me.

 

As far as the quality of the sound, yes its a more grandiose and dramatic score and its better off for it. Its actually a presence in the film, which is refreshing, but Johnson's temp-track love and a shortage of new thematic material drags it down for me.

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I agree there is a lot of ROTS in there, in the way old themes are rather bluntly stated. The overuse of the Force Theme, the heavy reliance of motific or rhytmic underscore over long thematic developments. 

 

It's scoring a much more exciting film though.

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

I agree there is a lot of ROTS in there, in the way old themes are rather bluntly stated. The overuse of the Force Theme, the heavy reliance of motific or rhytmic underscore over long thematic developments. 

 

It's scoring a much more exciting film though.

In ROTS Williams was saying goodbye to SW in this one he's saying goodbye to a certain SW era. So it sort of makes sense.

 

Karol

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On 12/16/2017 at 6:03 AM, Denise Bryson said:

Listened to the OST. Haven't seen the movie yet. Lacks some of the wow moments that TFA had. Falls back on repeating old tropes, and quotes older films almost verbatim. Seems to lack an identifying quality that characterises it, like TFA had Rey's theme, ROTS had Battle of the Heroes, AOTC had ATS, TPM had DotF and Anakin's Theme, etc. But what does TLJ have?

 

Overall, it's amazing orchestral music, but feels, I dunno, more like textured wallpaper than its more highlight-heavy predecessors? Maybe I shouldn't look forward to these scores so much in the future. And if reactions to the film are anything to go by, maybe Williams ought to hang it up and let someone else take on the next one. Maybe Hans Zimmer could have a turn.

Are you totally insane?! You want a samples and synth drum score? In Star Wars?

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7 minutes ago, Bespin said:

So far, what are the Concert suites of this new OST, "The Rebellion is Reborn"... only?

 

Yes.

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Not too much to wonder about, if you are speaking about VIII.  The only Hal Leonard piece the Rebellion is Reborn.  I was hoping for more pieces, but the piece itself is fantastic.  Seamlessly weaving together three separate musical ideas, complexly orchestrated, and ending on a full-blown hopeful note.  I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think it is better than AtS and BotH, the two other "one-piece only from a new SW score" selections.  

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14 minutes ago, Bespin said:

It's thin. 

 

I wonder what John Williams will decide to conduct in his next concerts. 

 

He doesn't only do concert arrangements. He did "Indy's First Adventure" and "Battle in the Snow" at two different Hollywood Bowl concerts.

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15 minutes ago, Bespin said:

It's thin. 

 

I wonder what John Williams will decide to conduct in his next concerts. 

He might write a new concert arrangement or has done so already by now, or he just does the rebellion is reborn.

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It is a concert arrangement, but I bet its edited from material written for the underscore, rather than having been composed and recorded for the album or end-credits in the way of Williams previous suites.

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9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Again, I'm not talking some meaningless and generic gestures nor setpiece-specific material - proper leitmotives, be they long themes are short motives.

 

Again, there's a bunch of recurring motifs that cross the boundaries between set-pieces, scattered all around the OST. Calling them generic gestures doesn't mean they don't exist. I don't know what they represent yet as I've only seen the movie once but it's obvious they hold some meaning.

 

It's a lot like TFA which also had a bunch of micro-motifs that were used sparingly but had specific association (the map motif, Finn's theme, First Order motif etc.)

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5 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

One of the many things I like about the Maestro's score is the new concert piece, "The Rebellion Is Reborn." It combines Rose's theme, the Ahch-To Island motif, and the Rey and Luke student/teacher motif into a singular idea. It weaves them together showing that Rose's passionate spirit, combined with the knowledge of the Force, as well as everything Rey learns from Luke, form to create a singular idea, hence the name of the piece. Incredible.

What's the difference between the island motif and they student/teacher motif?

 

Also is there nothing of Holdo or new Resistance material in there? I'm trying to understand all of The Rebellion is Reborn but I still don't love it. I don't like the combination of motifs or the general structure. 

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15 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

Again, there's a bunch of recurring motifs that cross the boundaries between set-pieces, scattered all around the OST. Calling them generic gestures doesn't mean they don't exist. I don't know what they represent yet as I've only seen the movie once but it's obvious they hold some meaning.

 

It's a lot like TFA which also had a bunch of micro-motifs that were used sparingly but had specific association (the map motif, Finn's theme, First Order motif etc.)

 

Not every gesture in a Williams score (or a Wagner one, for that matter) is supposed to hold some meaning, and if it doesn't hold meaning, its not a leitmotif. A prime example from this score is the woodwind line following the opening crawl. Its recurring from the original Star Wars. But does it really mean anything to the story? well, not really, no. Therefore, its not a leitmotif.

 

The "map motif" you refer to is another example, where the recurring gesture is not a narrative device but a stylistic device applied by Williams to denote mystery: here, the mystery of Luke's whereabouts. Again, not a leitmotif.

 

Within those perhaps more "academic" criteria, I don't think there are more than a handful of new leitmotives to this work, but there's got to be more than just the two themes from "The Rebellion is Reborn", I'm sure.

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On 12/16/2017 at 11:22 PM, crocodile said:

It's very much like Danny Elfman's Justice League in that respect. Just ever changing tempi and different ideas colliding with each other with very little consequence. Maybe it's just best to leave all films to Zimmer's and Junkie XL's as they can just cover up all the creases with warm blanker of their sound design? ;)

 

Karol

 

Indeed. All well written, energetic stuff, but sometimes it just plays off as wallpaper. It's like Williams was addressing only the most functional beats of the film's action and energy. Maybe the staggered sessions affects his writing process in this regard, at this age?

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

Not too much to wonder about, if you are speaking about VIII.  The only Hal Leonard piece the Rebellion is Reborn.  I was hoping for more pieces, but the piece itself is fantastic.  Seamlessly weaving together three separate musical ideas, complexly orchestrated, and ending on a full-blown hopeful note.  I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think it is better than AtS and BotH, the two other "one-piece only from a new SW score" selections.  

 

In my opinion AtS is the best theme and concert arrangement since the original trilogy. The movie doesn't match the quality of the theme, though...

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Didn't Williams write things before seeing the film? I remember seeing somewhere that Rian wanted to edit the film TO the music. So many things must have been written first. Maybe that is why some of the action music seems choppy in terms of rhythm to some of you. IE: Williams didn't address the tempo changes but wrote pieces and they were edited later or scenes written around them and edited to them and music then also edited to fit different scenes in that fight. OMG, I think I just confused myself. You know what I mean!

 

I am going to see the The Last Jedi tonight. Spent yesterday and today watching Rogue One through to The Force Awakens. Lord that Rogue One score goes nowhere real fast. Mind you he (Gia) hardly had time to write but he seriously has no clue how to modulate, some great ideas, but they sort of just plonk onto the ground with a thud, Dear Lord, and there was a tie fighter attack moment where he could have used TIE FIGHTER ATTACK, gggrrrrrr. Sometimes I do not know why composers who follow Williams do not use every theme and motif he wrote for that certain franchise. It's right there for you, lol. Some lovely slow musical moments that really highlight the emotion though, I'll give him that. OK, back on topic, rant over.... 

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