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THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)

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19 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I can understand that impression but that regal quality also adds a quality of age and maybe even wisdom that don't seem fitting for a young character. 

 

Unrelated, the quotes of The Tie Fighter Attack are great. The orchestration is not a direct lift and the new rendition has a real punch to it.

 

Well she's a Resistance soldier, no?

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10 minutes ago, Damien F said:

One of the surprises is the lack of any truly great stand out moment for Rey's theme. I mean, TFA had loads of them where her theme just took over and grabbed the listener's attention. Nothing like that here. This will be one of the main things I'll be looking out for when I see the film tomorrow.

 

Her theme in TLJ seems much quieter and subdued, probably due to where ever the story takes the character.

 

My ultimate wish would have been some nice interplay between Rey's Theme and The Jedi Steps. Not the case unfortunately. 

 

Completely agree with every single thing here!

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I was getting at this: That i try to contain some sense of proportion in my expressions and not be dragged by the excitemenet of the moment or something else (eg. because most composers now don't write good music, then everything Williams writes now is masterpiece).

I try to see the big picture and all of Williams' output.

 

When I see people saying this X theme is great, or the greatest since etc. then what's Superman? What's E.T.? What's Indiana Jones?

That's why I seldom am  excited now with a new Williams score and it seems like I'm "whining".

This is what i was getting at.

 

If you want to be disappointed that he isn't writing music as good as something you like from his prior work, that is your prerogative, but personally I am happy to enjoy what he IS giving us.

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17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Completely agree with every single thing here!

 

Not unexpected though. Luke's theme didn't have much development after the first film. Nor did Leia's, Anakin's. Han Solo & The Princess only appears a few in ROTJ and in pretty much the same subdued arrangement.

 

I'm surprised we got as much Resistance March as we did 

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10 minutes ago, Jay said:

If you want to be disappointed that he isn't writing music as good as something you like from his prior work, that is your prerogative, but personally I am happy to enjoy what he IS giving us.

 

well, I'm not disappointed because frankly I don't expect him to write the music he wrote at his 40s or 50s.

 

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Everyone hoping for elaborate development of Rey's Theme should look to how JW has historically treated past themes in sequel scores. They get small quotes, new renditions, some fresh orchestrations, but are usually no longer as large of a presence as they were in their initial score.

 

So far the use of Rey's theme sounds appropriate and in line with how JW has reused themes in the past.

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1 minute ago, artguy360 said:

Everyone hoping for elaborate development of Rey's Theme should look to how JW has historically treated past themes in sequel scores. They get small quotes, new renditions, some fresh orchestrations, but are usually no longer as large of a presence as they were in their initial score.

 

So far the use of Rey's theme sounds appropriate and in line with how JW has reused themes in the past.

 

Exactly. The use of existing themes from TFA is pretty much exactly as Williams has always reused themes in Star Wars, with The Force Theme being the exception.

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3 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Everyone hoping for elaborate development of Rey's Theme should look to how JW has historically treated past themes in sequel scores. They get small quotes, new renditions, some fresh orchestrations, but are usually no longer as large of a presence as they were in their initial score.

 

So far the use of Rey's theme sounds appropriate and in line with how JW has reused themes in the past.

 

I know, BUT he specifically chose to talk about her and her theme so often in concerts and interviews, I was expecting more this time.

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2 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Wow, the pre-credits music is really unusual, but I don't love the final statement of the Force theme. It sounds too rushed and reminds me of the Force theme statement at the end of ROTS.

 

I get the feeling that this movie will leave us with a lot of mixed emotions like ESB. 

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I know, BUT he specifically chose to talk about her and her theme so often in concerts and interviews, I was expecting more this time.


Didn't he also refer to her theme as heard in TFA as unfinished or at least not reaching its full potential?

He's probably saving it for Ep 9...

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2 minutes ago, YoYoMama said:

I get the feeling that this movie will leave us with a lot of mixed emotions like ESB. 

 

Me too, I think the shit will hit the fan in the third act and will take some characters in some very interesting directions. 

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6 minutes ago, YoYoMama said:

I get the feeling that this movie will leave us with a lot of mixed emotions like ESB. 

 

On the other hand I really like the end credits medley. It's definitely more of a medley than TFA's end credits but there are some shining renditions and interesting interweaving going on. 

 

This OST is a real puzzle. It's far less straightforward than TFA, but also heavier and maybe even more frenetic which seems reflected in the end credits medley. It's gonna take many listens before I understand it, but that's usually how it is with all JW scores. 

 

Right now the thematic material is hard to notice outside of old themes though the end credits suggests there is more than I can track right now.

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For those of you who have seen the film and heard the score, do you have a close approximation of a chronological tracklist?  I've only heard the score, not seen the movie, and it thematically sounds out of order. Just a guess though.

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There's definitely at least 1 repeating militaristic figure that isn't Rose's theme (not that her theme is militaristic) but the two are played together sometimes on the OST. 

 

Also, echoing others, the orchestration is richer here than in TFA and the sound mix better reflects that. I don't hear or not hear any textures getting lost in the brass as some felt was the case with TFA. The low bass stuff, piano stuff, and percussion are really powerful.

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I am a fan of Williams for over 35 years, given that it is highly admirable his passion that continued over 80 years he has both in composing and conducting orchestras in America. I have just seen the film broadcast in cinemas in Italy and I must say that the music apart from the new and unique new theme of Rose can only hear songs already composed Ray Theme, Resistance March, Princess Leia, Luke and the force theme. in the battle scenes he reused the song Tie Fighter Attack. I was expecting something more from his brilliant mind, since he could not even play the new Spielberg movie apart from the Post. He could very well make variations to the amazing times created for the other Star Wars trilogies. There are no concert versions as it was for The Force Awakens album because there are no new theme songs apart from Rose. He had done a great job with FA but with this album a little disappointed. Even the film in my opinion was better than Abrams in this without revealing anything there are too many ironic jokes that make it lose almost of seriousness, it seems almost an imposition of Disney to create the film for families. We'll see in the Post if a bit of magic has returned. However always the best existing composer.

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1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

I was getting at this: That i try to contain some sense of proportion in my expressions and not be dragged by the excitemenet of the moment or something else (eg. because most composers now don't write good music, then everything Williams writes now is masterpiece).

I try to see the big picture and all of Williams' output.

 

When I see people saying this X theme is great, or the greatest since etc. then what's Superman? What's E.T.? What's Indiana Jones?

That's why I seldom am  excited now with a new Williams score and it seems like I'm "whining".

This is what i was getting at.

 

There's something that Justin (ET/Selina/Rose etc) would point out a lot that I really agreed with which was that in Williams's classic blockbuster adventure scores, you have the iconic themes that are always composed brilliantly with the best hooks and arrangements to become iconic signatures, but those scores are also loaded with so many great tunes and motifs that any one of them could be used to anchor whole other scores, albeit probably slightly lesser ones.

 

I sorta feel like we're basically getting those scores now. The themes are wonderful and it all works, but sure there's some missing X factor and the "embarrassment of riches" feel in terms of the wealth of melody and cues with airtight structure to really fill out this massive musical picture that goes far beyond other film music. I suppose it's fair to say that John Williams is running a little lower on genius juice these days. As a currently working composer he's "merely" writing some of the best film music of each year. 

 

But that said, familiarity still breeds contentment. The TFA themes feel right at home in this score and their bolder statements consistently put a smile on my face, and I'm guessing by the end of the trilogy they'll have had a nice effect on kids growing up with these things.

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8 hours ago, artguy360 said:

No concert arrangements on a Star Wars OST is going to be strange. I hope that means the film score presentation is excellent and the album flows well.

 

Maybe he didn't have time to make any concert arrangements, or he had a bad case of couldn't-be-bothered.

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Maybe didn't have time to make any concert arrangements, or he had a bad case of couldn't-be-bothered.

 

 

maybe they just recorded too much music .This album reminds me of Hook OST where they crammed as many highlights as possible on 1 c.d. and the themes don;t have room to breathe

 

Of course most new scores get 2 c.d. deluxe editions right away now

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I've listed to the album twice. Here are some thoughts:

 

Track 1 - Main Title and Escape

Definitely agree that it is a little choppy. I like the brass writing though, especially that brief moment with March of the Resistance. Really like the tense strained chords at 5:14. A fun track.

 

Track 2 - Ahch-To Island

Nice return of The Jedi Steps although not hugely different to TFA. To be honest, I'm not as disappointed as some people that this theme hasn't returned to a greater extent. I never expected it to be a new theme for Luke but rather a location theme for that island. It would have been almost impossible to top its rendition from TFA anyway. Overall, a nice track particularly the ending.

 

Track 3 - Revisiting Snoke

A collection of the villains’' themes. Not too much to say about that.

 

Track 4 - The Supremacy

Love the rapid fire version of Ren's theme at the very start on brass. I also like the completely new variation of the Resistance March. After that, Ren's theme over the action ostinato sounds really cool. That eerie version of Leia's theme sounds both wonderful and very unusual. I love how it gives way to a full bodied version of her theme. One of my favourite tracks, full of cool thematic usage.

 

Track 5 - Fun With Finn and Rose

Ok, as with most other people here, I instantly fell in love with Rose's theme. It sounds gorgeous in its first quote here. Also I really like the sprightly renditions of the Resistance March. Another nice track.

 

Track 6 - Old Friends

Really cute version of Luke theme here. I quite like the mystery stuff near the end. Sounds like it is straight from AOTC but in a good way.

 

Track 7 - The Rebellion is Reborn

Those brass / woodwind interludes are nice, I just wish Rose's Theme was given more of a chance to flourish and shine over a longer and sustained period of time. Therefore, I can't consider this to be truly a concert arrangement of Rose's Theme. Still a great piece of music though, and that ending is powerful.

 

Track 8 - Lesson One

Mostly Rey's Theme followed by the Force theme. Both fairly subdued but still a nice listen.

 

Track 9 - Canto Bight

Wow, who would have thought an 85 year old Willams would have this in him. It is a pretty crazy soundscape. I don't like it as much as the cantina material from ANH, but he definitely had fun writing it.

 

Track 10 - Who Are You?

Not the most interesting of tracks. Mostly quiet mystery stuff with some bombast toward the end. Not a track I can see myself revisiting often

 

Track 11 - The Fathiers

Wow, I love what JW is doing here. It sounds like the swashbuckling music from Tintin but more frenzied and less poised. And Rose's theme in action mode sounds amazing. A definite highlight of the sequel trilogy so far. 

 

Track 12 - The Cave

Again, not much of interest here except more subdued Rey's theme at the end.

 

Track 13 - The Sacred Jedi Texts

Some Force material but nothing we haven't heard in the past. The direct quote of Yoda's theme is nice but I also won't be revisiting this track much. With the exception of The Fathiers, it seems the middle portion of this album is a bit uninteresting

 

Track 14 - A New Alliance

A pretty typical but decent modern Williams action track with some cool renditions of Rey's theme.

 

Track 15 - Chrome Dome

A completely uninteresting action track. Aside from a very brief quote of the rebel fanfare, it is entirely non-thematic and the orchestra isn't really doing anything engaging except for random brass and percussion hits.

 

Track 16 - The Battle of Crait

On the other hand, The Battle of Crait is the complete opposite of Chrome Dome. It is a fabulous action track which is full of different themes in action mode. My goodness, Rose's Theme at 0:48 sounds so wonderful. I love the rapid fire material at 1:53 which returns at 2:34, and at 3:06 with Rey's Theme this time. The TIE fighter material isn't a direct copy of ANH and has enough variation to keep me interested, especially the elongated note of the rebel fanfare at 4:22. I also like the tension build-up from 5:29. Overall, really great action writing. Loads of cool little moments.

 

Track 17 - The Spark

After some quotes of OT themes, the ending sounds so dark and epic. I love that rhythm in the second half of the cue. No doubt it scores a very dramatic scene.

 

Track 18 - The Last Jedi

It is big and dramatic with wordless choir but nothing too special.

 

Track 19 - Peace and Purpose

Some nice quotes of new and old themes with a very big rendition of the rebel fanfare at the end. Not much else to say about this but I like it.

 

Track 20 - Finale

The first 30 seconds of twinkly material is nice but pretty unusual especially how it segues into Luke's theme. I guess it will make sense in the film. The rest of the end credits features great renditions of the themes but the transitions are very very messy. Just when you think Rose's Theme is going to take flight for full orchestra, it suddenly stops cold to give way to Leia's theme on piano. In fact, the worst transactions are between the OT material and the new themes. It is a shame, especially since TFA had one of the best end credits in the franchise and this one actually ends with a cool version of Rey's theme.

 

I realize the inherent bias in comparing this brand new score to The Force Awakens, which I've known and loved for two years. I do think TFA is more emotionally resonant and nothing on this new album matches the sustained high quality of The Ways of the Force through to Jedi Steps and Finale. The lack of a proper concert suite for Rose is disappointing because it is a fantastic theme; and the end credit construction is a mess. There is also a higher number of uninteresting tracks on this album compared to TFA. 

 

That being said, there are plenty of highlights and the action scoring in general beats Follow Me / The Falcon and The Rathtars, both of which are still great cues. And of course, Rose's Theme is a gem. I predict there are a few great cues missing from the OST which will hopefully find there way onto the FYC. 

 

If TFA is a 5 star score, I'd rate TLJ 4 stars but I need further listens to properly digest it to figure out where it stands within the franchise. 

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1 minute ago, Damien F said:

If TFA is a 5 star score, I'd rate TLJ 4 stars but I need further listens to properly digest it to figure out where it stands within the franchise. 

If TFA is a 5 star score, how much do you rate ESB?

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2 minutes ago, Mathieu said:

If TFA is a 5 star score, how much do you rate ESB?

 

5 also, but for different reasons. Also a 5 star rating system doesn't leave much room for nuance. ESB is better than TFA, but both are 5 stars for me.

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I don't understand it, why does the third movie in a row need to end with the Binary Sunset rehash? It made poetic sense in Episode III, but can't we get past this nostalgia act? The finale segueways into the credits were great in Episode I and II. I just listened to the final two tracks, nothing else yet, so I'll wait and see, but I agree with Jason, the end credits are unusually sloppy. Seems like Kylo Ren's little brass theme might evolve into a march in Episode 9, if the finale is anything to go by.

I hope that the rest of this Soundtrack has more to offer than Rose's theme and endless variations of the Force Theme.

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2 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

I hope that the rest of this Soundtrack has more to offer than Rose's theme and endless variations of the Force Theme.

I'm afraid it doesn't.

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Just finished my first listen through. I liked it. Rose's theme is frickin' dope. Feels very magical to me, like Harry Potter or something. Canto Bight is fun, but it sounds too much like Cantina Band to me. I'm gonna listen to it a few more times before I see the movie

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There's a bit in Rose's theme which reminds me of the Holy Grail theme from TLC:

 

 

Specifically the last few chords.

 

I quite like the theme. The way it was stated in "The Fathiers" reminded me of the statement of Poe's theme in "I Can Fly Anything".

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