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Where do you rank the score for "The Last Jedi"?

Where do you rank the score for "The Last Jedi"?  

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  1. 1. Where do you rank John Williams' music for "The Last Jedi" among his previous 'Star Wars' scores?

    • It's his best Star Wars score.
    • It's his second best Star Wars score.
    • It's his third best Star Wars score.
    • It's his fourth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his fifth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his sixth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his seventh best Star Wars score.
    • It's his eighth best Star Wars score.


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Well my original sentence reads "Beethoven can sound outdated," which is an opinion many will share when comparing to any music using the same instruments of an orchestra, such as soundtrack. I personally disagree he doesn't sound outdated, but my point was, you can be a little more open and reasonable with your descriptions. That is what lacks in the previous analyses.

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2 hours ago, SteveMc said:

The word "outdated" is a strong one.  It implies a judgement of the thing so described as being out of touch, inferior, and not worth as much consideration as newer things, which, by implication, are superior.  Is all this what you mean?

 

When you apply the term to music, I think it connotes a slightly different meaning, because art in of itself has no particular function, thus it can't become inferior or defective. Instead, outdated in art or style is a clear reference to trend. If John Williams is considered outdated, there are a lot of people who would say Beethoven is even moreso, and I think that is based on Beethoven's adoption of older classical phrasing, instead of the phrasings found in similar instrument sections of filmscore or soundtrack, which I'm sure he would've been fairly interested in.

 

Beethoven is the best composer I believe. Seeing how everyone now all of a sudden is so hyped and cracked-out on Beethoven, it begs the question: "Where are all the Beethoven threads?" I guess everyone primarily belongs to the Beethoven Theism forums, that's why they're so much more trendy, hmm.

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43 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Seeing how everyone now all of a sudden is so hyped and cracked-out on Beethoven, it begs the question: "Where are all the Beethoven threads?" 

There's not a great deal of that sort of discussion outside of the two main classical threads, and there's not much to say about the subject that we can't post there, so we don't get thread-crazy on classical music. 

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9 hours ago, Borodin said:

TFA and TLJ are the worst for me. Always thought that since 2015 and 2017. The originals are much more Mussorgskian in spectrum and variance in describing the palettes of adventure, and Dvorakian in craft and structure. The prequels were somewhat as interesting and breathtaking, noteworthy at least, but nothing beats SW and ESB, SW being the pinnacle of music (unless you, say, enjoy the more ordinary harmonic forms of Beethoven or something, then that can be very good. Beethoven was the best inventor but his music can sound outdated. Would be nice to hear a Beethoven in the film and fantasy era.)

 

 

I think the variance and variety of SW, TPM and TFA is what I really look for in a SW score, after 5 years of being a Jwfan. 😊

 

Back in 2014, when I first saw Star Wars, I never would’ve thought that I’d be able to hear Rey’s Theme in 2015. I didn’t even know the prequels existed.

 

My heart goes to ROTJ because of Luke and Leia, but my brain enjoys SW, TPM and TFA the most. These 3 scores set up vastly different musical worlds for their sequels. They are also great lessons on composition and musical storytelling.

 

TLJ, was a disappointment for me because it’s very self-aware and self-referential. There’s a lot of fourth-wall-breaking and gotcha moments going on in TLJ. I don’t think those ha-ha moments work very well with the seriousness and earnestness of those quotes of Leia’s Theme and Yoda’s Theme. 

 

But if it’s meant to be deconstructive, to be like Kylo Ren, I’d say TLJ as a musical work is a much more enjoyable and friendly kind of deconstruction than most of “modern” and “contemporary” music. 

 

I’m just glad the soundtrack is selling and SW is still a huge pop culture thing. TLJ may not follow previous lines of thoughts. It falls into the wild-card category of deconstructive music. It’s commercial. It’s a Disney soundtrack. It’s a pop culture thing. Still, if I have to choose between TLJ and every single piece of music that is meant to be deconstructive, I’d pick TLJ. 

 

TLJ may be JW’s eighth/ninth best SW score, but it still has heart.

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10 hours ago, John said:

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Coincidentally, I was working in Thamesmead in southeast London last month where that scene from A Clockwork Orange was filmed.  The concrete apartment blocks around South Mere boating lake are in the process of being demolished.  Here is what that same location looks like now with all the demolition hoardings up:

 

7ADEB65F-6A99-45F7-94C5-34DBB3AFFAF0.jpeg

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While I do get some of the complaints, I can’t blame JW  using some snippets of concert versions (that otherwise probably wouldn’t be heard by the majority of moviegoers anyway!) at appropriate moments in a score for which he recorded 180 minutes of music. Give the man a break!

 

Also, the Snoke moment described above was probably temped with ‘Ways of the Force’ but in TLJ it is in a different key and the orchestration is also a little different I think. And I enjoy it much more in that context, mainly because of the fantastic action music afterwards.

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I see I tossed a rock into the lake again. 

 

The only update to Beethoven I would be interested to hear is if in 1934 someone hired Ravel and Korngold to add orchestral colours to some of the works. His idiom is the eldest one that I think still works without sounding like a powdered wig looks.

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B's decent, though his pieces don't make my personal top. Obviously the greatest composer according to popular rating and inventiveness is Beethoven, but we could get into all the other musicians and bands who are consistently rated higher by audiophiles. Can't say most people agree with consensus. I don't believe there's any objectivity to what makes a great composer, just subjective consensus.

 

For me, there's no way he beats Williams, even if Williams prefers him, that's his problem :P. Williams lived the better musical era imo. Just classical enthusiasts (>1%) say Classical was the best era, and then many less people would prefer Williams, even maybe Williams himself, so that's that.

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15 minutes ago, Borodin said:

B's decent, though his pieces don't make my personal top. Obviously the greatest composer according to popular rating and inventiveness is Beethoven, but we could get into all the other musicians and bands who are consistently rated higher by audiophiles. Can't say most people agree with consensus. I don't believe there's any objectivity to what makes a great composer, just subjective consensus. There's no way he beats Williams, even if Williams prefers him, that's his problem :P. William's just lived the better musical era imo, and only classical enthusiasts (>1%) say Classical was the best era.

I don't know who you know, but at least 60% of casual and semi-serious classical listeners will consider Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven and the era they defined to be the pinnacle and essence of classical music.

Why should the fragmented subjectivities of self-proclaimed audiophiles be taken as the highest truth here?  

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Highest truth?

 

Hmm...I'm not even big on Beethoven. Why would my mind assume there's any 'high truth' to this because a small percentage cling to archetypal Classical? How could mine, or Einstein's or Debussy's minds possibly care for such a ruling? I went over to Einstein and he told me he doesn't care for Beethoven. I went to one of my main bros, Debussy, and he's not keen on Beethoven either. It's cool that some people cling to archetypal Classical structure and Beethoven, got no issue with that. I think the music is more simple-minded.

 

I am fine leaving B as 'best composer' because that represents Classical enthusiast averages.

 

As a Contemporary enthusiast, I'm more into Williams, Stravinsky, Dvorak (the guy who finally broke out of the hum-drum) and many other styles than classical. Classical to me is repetitive and very limited. Though my favorite of Beethoven's is symp 6-2.

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Also just noticed, all the audiophiles on the site like rateyourmusic are pretty accurate on who the best composers are. John Williams is really high up there, woot woot, ESB is the 11th greatest Classical album of all time! In Classical category! The highest there overall are Stravinsky and Beethoven. That's better than asking Classical people who the best is. Williams wouldn't survive, Stravinsky would suffer as many topped him... But it's just a dumb site.

 

The real answers are subjective.

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