THE ADVENTURES OF HAN - 2018 John Williams theme for Solo: A Star Wars Story

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, DominicCobb said:

I can see using this as sort of a general powerful fate theme.

 

I generally don't care for rampant use of leitmotives as if they were pieces of mood music, in the way that Rogue One does with The Force theme. If it happens infreqently, as it does in most Williams scores, I can accept and sometimes even like it. But when its all over the score - it cheapens the leitmotives.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thankfully Wagner disagreed with you.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Yes, Wagner does that, too. But if memory serves me well, he doesn't do it terribly often. Neither does Williams.

 

Hell, Giacchino is very strict with the use of his own leitmotives in Rogue One. But with The Force theme....

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

2 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

 

Yeah, I had thought beforehand that Rogue One wouldn't have much of the Force theme either... I think the worst actually is when its used as intro music for Jimmy Smits. 

 

I will say in fairness to some of its uses, Rogue One is a very dramatic, high stakes epic story, so in that context I can see using this as sort of a general powerful fate theme, but with Solo I don't see that possibility. I'd be very surprised if it makes it in in any sort of natural way.

 

 

I'll take what I can get, no expectations from me. One fact that's promising though is if it's a theme for the main character, it'd be somewhat odd if we didn't hear it a good amount.

 

Think about it - if there is actually one true main Star Wars theme - it is actually the Force Theme. Luke's theme gets its bombastic play over the main title and the credits of every film but in the score proper, the most often quoted theme is Force.

 

The Force Theme gradually expanded it's applicability from a character theme for Ben to a theme representing the general concept of the mystical Force to the general concept of goodness, nobility and courage in this universe.

 

The theme is immortal now and can now be applied even outside the context of the force or Ben Kenobi. Whenever a people are oprresed in this universe and seek to stand up to that opression, this theme would be somewhat validly applied.

[Chen G. 3,949]

It expanded from being Ben's personal theme to being the theme for The Force, alright. But I don't think you can make a case for it being deliberately expanded to being a generally "noble" theme. Its just that the repetition has inadvertently worn off the associative power of the theme.

 

Besides, the whole point of leitmotives is that they are assigned to specific, recurring narrative elements: a character, a revisited location, an object, etc - not for very general things like "nobility" and "courage". Its just too broad a concept. You can apply that to almost every other story beat in any Star Wars film.

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

The fact is that JW doesn't treat is exclusively as a leitmotif.

[Chen G. 3,949]

True, but I wouldn't say its a deliberate choice, though.

 

It just happened through repetition.

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

It doesn't really matter how it happened.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Honestly, this doesn't seem to be that complex an idea.  If the Force is indeed an energy that binds the galaxy together, then the use of the Force theme is acceptable in pretty much any instance in the films in which it is intended to be thought by the audience that the Force is at work in some mysterious way.

 

This is not rocket science.

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

You're missing the point. The theme is also used when there's no connection to the force.

[Bofur01 245]

What, like when Finn says his line about people believing in Leia, and that they have to take out the "battering ram cannon" to buy time?

[Bryant Burnette 654]

7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You're missing the point. The theme is also used when there's no connection to the force.

 

Are you sure about that?  Are you sure the point of those scenes with that music isn't to imply the Force IS at work?

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

With that kind of argument you could say that all scenes are connected to the force, because they take place in the Star Wars universe.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

37 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

With that kind of argument you could say that all scenes are connected to the force, because they take place in the Star Wars universe.

 

But all the scenes must, by definition, be connected to the Force, because all things are connected by the Force. If there's a person or any other living thing present in the scene, so is the Force.

 

So the question is...why wouldn't the Force theme be appropriate in almost any occasion?

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

Exactly.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

54 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

With that kind of argument you could say that all scenes are connected to the force, because they take place in the Star Wars universe.

 

YES

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I still can't make out what the Force theme's melody is...

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Da dah dah da-da-da dum, da dah dah-dah-dah-dah-dah da-da-da dum

[Arpy 4,145]

Too many dum-dums in here...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Sounds like Manny's theme from Powell's Ice Age music!

[bollemanneke 3,346]

Dah-daaaaah, dah-dah dah-dah dah-daaaaaah-dah...

 

(Force theme cont'd, somebody else finish it)

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You're missing the point. The theme is also used when there's no connection to the force.

2 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

What, like when Finn says his line about people believing in Leia, and that they have to take out the "battering ram cannon" to buy time?

 

The theme, in this case, is used in reference to the literal force that will be necessary to take out the cannon. 

 

[artguy360 1,843]

The Force theme is pretty over-used at this point. I wish JW and the directors(s) would exercise some restraint. Still, there are 1 or 2 somewhat novel renditions of the motif in both TFA and TLJ. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

2 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

 

But all the scenes must, by definition, be connected to the Force, because all things are connected by the Force. If there's a person or any other living thing present in the scene, so is the Force.

 

So the question is...why wouldn't the Force theme be appropriate in almost any occasion?

 

True this! Idiot Williams needlessly and arrogantly wrote a Wagnerian leitmotif driven score when all he needed was just a single force theme in every scene!

[Arpy 4,145]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Dah-daaaaah, dah-dah dah-dah dah-daaaaaah-dah...

 

(Force theme cont'd, somebody else finish it)

That's Hedwig's Theme!

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

I don't feel the need to squeeze every use of the force theme into some kind of connection with the force. I just appreciate that it can be used to great effect also when there's no such obvious connection, like the binary sunset scene.

[Chen G. 3,949]

That’s fine as an occasional statement here and there: e.g. binary sunset. But when it’s used frequently in scenes that do not evoke the idea of The Force in the viewer, than it cheapens the leitmotif. It also means that it gets stated much more often, which contributes to the audience getting fed up with it at some point.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

No audience has ever gotten fed up with that theme.  What sort of lunacy are you speaking?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

The general moviegoer has too big of a reliance on nostalgia.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Well, if not “fed up” I’d certainly say it’s not as special when it’s used as frequently as it does now, especially as a curtain-closing piece.

[artguy360 1,843]

I can say with almost absolute certainty that general movie goers are not fed up with JW's use of the Force Theme at all. If anything, a general movie goer has given far less thought to the use or over-use of the Force Theme and its association to specific characters and ideas than us posting here on JWFan. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

JW should use only the force theme in Episode IX and nothing else to see if anyone notices.

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

That’s fine as an occasional statement here and there: e.g. binary sunset. But when it’s used frequently in scenes that do not evoke the idea of The Force in the viewer, than it cheapens the leitmotif. It also means that it gets stated much more often, which contributes to the audience getting fed up with it at some point.

 

I'm happy that we've gotten more statements of the theme, but I agree it was a tad too much of it in TLJ.

[artguy360 1,843]

Serious question: What are the best uses of the Force Theme in TLJ? I like the rendition that plays when Luke fades away. Somewhere in my mind I recall a pretty bare, unadorned rendition that plays somewhere in the score but the for the life of me I can't remember when. The statement that scores Snoke's death is cool but nearly the same as the rendition that plays in The Ways of the Force from TFA.

[Holko 9,526]

The repeating one when Luke explains how he will not be the Last Jedi and Rey lifts the rocks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

I remember thinking somewhere near the end of the movie "not again"... but I don't remember which scene it was.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

I never really noticed it in the cinema. I've heard it so many times that my mind just ignores it.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Well, if not “fed up” I’d certainly say it’s not as special when it’s used as frequently as it does now, especially as a curtain-closing piece.

 

I work at a movie theatre.  Every time I've seen busy shows of one of the new movies let out, people are buzzing happily as they walk out.

 

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I know damn well what I’m talking about.

 

Audiences can get saturated in just about everything when they watch a movie, if its too persistent: they can get saturated in camera movement, if it’s too frequent (a-la Michael Bay), in action, in drama and yes - in dramatic music. That's the importance of having highs and lows, and an ebb-and-flow to a film and, indeed, to a score.

 

Themes like The Force theme are something to be savored, not indulged in.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I never really noticed it in the cinema. I've heard it so many times that my mind just ignores it.

 

It's like listening to your girlfriend talk. After a while you don't notice it!

 

4 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

JW should use only the force theme in Episode IX and nothing else to see if anyone notices.

 

He'd still probably get an Academy award nomination.

 

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Themes like The Force theme are something to be savored, not indulged in.

 

It has no sugar or carbs and is completely fat free. So what's the harm!

[Bofur01 245]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm happy that we've gotten more statements of the theme, but I agree it was a tad too much of it in TLJ.

 

JW: "Rian Baby, dare we quote the force theme here?"

RB: "Yessss, and here, and here, and here. And maybe one more rendition over here for luck."

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,072]

I think it went more like this:

 

JW: Rian Baby, listen to this new thing I've come up with for that emotional scene.

RB: Nice try, but didn't you listen to the temp track?

[Chen G. 3,949]

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

RB: Nice try, but didn't you listen to the temp track?

 

CONT'D

 

RJ: *Plays the immolation scene* Do it more like that!

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

JW: Brian baby....

RJ: It's Rian.

JW: I beg your pardon?

RJ: Rian. My name is Rian.

JW: Like Ryan O'Neal? Lovely gentleman.

RJ: Exactly. But with an "i"

JW: Who spells Ryan with an i?

RJ: I do. And who wears nothing but black turtlenecks? Who are you Steve Jobs? Now, you were saying about the score?

(awkward pause)

JW: Brian dear, would you excuse me for a moment? (muffled: Can someone get Kathy on the line?)

[DominicCobb 194]

On 4/9/2018 at 3:53 AM, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Think about it - if there is actually one true main Star Wars theme - it is actually the Force Theme. Luke's theme gets its bombastic play over the main title and the credits of every film but in the score proper, the most often quoted theme is Force.

 

The Force Theme gradually expanded it's applicability from a character theme for Ben to a theme representing the general concept of the mystical Force to the general concept of goodness, nobility and courage in this universe.

 

The theme is immortal now and can now be applied even outside the context of the force or Ben Kenobi. Whenever a people are oprresed in this universe and seek to stand up to that opression, this theme would be somewhat validly applied.

 

I don't disagree on the whole, but I think it still needs to be used carefully. It's a weighty theme that has to do with what Star Wars is about on a deeper level. The main title is a more surface level theme tied in with the swashbuckling heroics. Which is why I think the latter is more likely to get airtime in Solo. Maybe I could see the Force theme pop up once or twice in a fateful moment where Han makes an important decision to do the right thing or something, but for the most part I imagine the movie will be a lighthearted action picture that's somewhat removed from the larger, mythic things at play in the Star Wars universe.

[Loert 2,511]

25 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

It's a weighty theme...

 

Perhaps Williams could compose a major version of the Force theme for lighter, more family-friendly moments. Something like this:

 

https://picosong.com/weNH3/

[mrbellamy 6,286]

 

[Faleel 5,347]

13 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Serious question: What are the best uses of the Force Theme in TLJ? I like the rendition that plays when Luke fades away. Somewhere in my mind I recall a pretty bare, unadorned rendition that plays somewhere in the score but the for the life of me I can't remember when. The statement that scores Snoke's death is cool but nearly the same as the rendition that plays in The Ways of the Force from TFA.

Either Leia unfreezing, the beginning of Luke in the Falcon, or Ladies Parting.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

This all sounds so contrived and...forced.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

16 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Themes like The Force theme are something to be savored, not indulged in.

 

God forbid that the thing which musically says STAR WARS to 99.9% of moviegoers be used in a manner that doesn't fly with crusty grumps on JWFan.