#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Sigh. Why not just listen to the music? What's this need people have nowadays to take it apart and analyze it? It's not a puzzle nor a mathematical equation. The soundtrack scene didn't use to be like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 To each his own, I suppose. I enjoy analysing music that I enjoy much in the same way I enjoy analysing the craft of filmmaking on movies that I love. And, since Star Wars is a leitmotivic piece, it begs that treatment, for me. Luka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 58 minutes ago, Score said: If someone gets the permission to write a book on TESB, he should definitely present JW a complete spreadsheet and ask him, at every occurrence of the Han Solo + Princess theme, whether he meant it as a theme for Han alone or as a love theme! JW would probably call the police if that happened. Will and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Loert said: JW would probably call the police if that happened. More likely the asylum! 14 hours ago, Stefancos said: Sigh. Why not just listen to the music? What's this need people have nowadays to take it apart and analyze it? It's not a puzzle nor a mathematical equation. Well, in part it is. The amount of insight that one can get, for example, by reading the sheet scores, can be compared to being in the room with the composer, listening to a piece of his and, instead of just saying "Oh what a cool piece!", also having him telling you "Yeah, I know it's cool, do you want to know how I did it? I wrote this, this and that, I gave this chord to the trombones, these harmonics to the violins, etc.". It's the closest thing you can get to being in the room when he composed it. It's very instructive. Then, I do believe that there might be a tendency to over-analyze the structure of film scores, in the sense that structure is not the main thing in film music, nor the most important focus of the composer, so it could be a bit misleading to treat applied (film) music like absolute music in this respect. It is a different aspect than orchestration and harmony: while someone like John Williams uses all the available tricks of orchestration and harmony and works very hard on these just like a composer writing for the concert hall (so it makes sense to analyze every detail of these), he doesn't do the same with respect to structure, since the latter is dictated by the movie and most of the choices have to be straightforward and not puzzling. Noticing and writing down somewhere that "Leia appears on the screen, so we hear a statement of Leia's theme" is kind of obvious and does not add much to the understanding of what the composer did. Seeing much more than this probably corresponds to building something that does not exist in the composer's mind. Despite all the nice (and funny) discussions that we are having here, I will never believe that JW spent more than a few minutes to decide that Ben's Death had to be scored with Leia's theme (and even less to provide a "justification"), nor to decide whether "Han Solo and the Princess" is a love theme or not. Remco and Ludwig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,296 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Aren't Williams sketches filled with notes and other orchestrational instructions? Would give a clear indication on Williams' musical intentions for a score. I've never really read them (mostly because I can't read music). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Really? I thought he wrote basic piano sketches to be orchestrated after the fact by Pope or Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Really? I thought he wrote basic piano sketches to be orchestrated after the fact by Pope or Ross. REALLY?!!! I didn't know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,296 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Really? I thought he wrote basic piano sketches to be orchestrated after the fact by Pope or Ross. No, no, no! Ross writes the sketches then Williams crosses out his name and writes his own. Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, crumbs said: Aren't Williams sketches filled with notes and other orchestrational instructions? Would give a clear indication on Williams' musical intentions for a score. I've never really read them (mostly because I can't read music). All the musical information is there, orchestration wise, but there are no notes that reveal any deep intentions. Just stuff like ‘Vadar appears’ or ‘We see 3PO’ above key moments in the cues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Indeed, they don't go into the grand philosophy of the musical saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 hours ago, crumbs said: Aren't Williams sketches filled with notes and other orchestrational instructions? Would give a clear indication on Williams' musical intentions for a score. I've never really read them (mostly because I can't read music). 6 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Really? I thought he wrote basic piano sketches to be orchestrated after the fact by Pope or Ross. According to Conrad Pope, and I am being honest here. When I sat and talked to him, he said, Williams gives him full on already orchestrated sketches and he is (in his own words) a glorified copyist. According to him, no other composer he's worked with does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Are you sure? I think he, like most composers, writes piano music and has others turn them into orchestra songs. ocelot and Remco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Are you sure? I think he, like most composers, write piano music and has others turn them into orchestra songs. On my ignore list you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 What is life, but ignoring, and being ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 So deep! You're forgiven, brother! Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,280 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I don't like this schtick TGP pulls every time this topic comes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 You're right Jay, it's kind of shopworn at this point. I just almost can't help myself when people walk into it though. ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Come on! Good old fashioned ribbing is fun! Let's not all get too sensitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 It was old when I did it about 12 years ago, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 12 year olds, Dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Shut the fuck up, TGP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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