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Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

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48 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

 

TGP,  there's no need for that.

 

But it's one of those people who post infrequently, about one thing, who has no rapport with anyone here, and who comes in with the guns of self righteousness and indignation blazing. 

 

The line must drawn here. This far, no farther. 

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57 minutes ago, Sandor said:

Is it possible to just like both without the need to debate which is better?

 

Absolutely. I like both. I don't care which is better. It's not going to make me like the other any less. 

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1 hour ago, Sandor said:

Is it possible to just like both without the need to debate which is better?

 

Yes. It is.

 

That's my point: not to show that one is better than the other, but to show that one cannot make such bold claims regarding either of the two. 

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The comparisons were inevitable. Difficult to judge for me. Different films, different goals. More importantly, different composing styles. Both franchises highlighted each composer's styles completely. Both styles were the perfect fit for each respective franchise. They are pretty much the epitome of leitmotiv scoring in the modern era. So ultimately it's just down to whose style you prefer.

 

And I personally prefer JW because I enjoy his orchestrations a bit more than everyone else. I love orchestrations that are very busy and has a lot of movement. Also, JW's woodwind writing is simply on a different level than everyone else. With that being said, it does not mean Star Wars is better than LOTR. I just prefer one composer's style over the other. I say this with utmost respect to Howard Shore. Also, to give Shore some love, the highs in the LOTR score were probably higher than the ones in SW. There's also arguably more highs in the LOTR score than SW.

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Now that's the right way to frame one's enjoyment of one of the score over the other. Not with bold "Williams' work is without peer" nonesense.

 

Although I'd say some of Shore's best work is with woodwinds. They're his instruments, as a musician.

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Be that as it may, i hope Williams finishes his career on a less juvenile movie (anxiously looking at you, Steven). The composer - i feel - spent his last creative juices on splashy adventure movies with the prequels. All that came after is really pastiche and i'm not sure more is needed.

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Shut up!!!

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, armorb said:

I find Shore generally boring as shit.

 

But I'm oh so glad Chen G. will inevitably come along, on topic, in every Star Wars thread here with a multiple paragraph exegesis on Shore's use of tonal variation in woodwinds to depict the smell of fresh cut grass in The Two Towers:lol:.

 

:nod:

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hornist, why do you love TLJ score? Genuinely interested to hear your insight. Am I right or wrong in thinking it's largely because you're a musician, a horn player, and that you appreciate it from a technical virtuosity perspective? 

 

Quintus - not interested in comparing SW with LOTR. 

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22 minutes ago, hornist said:

 yes, you are right, I appreciate those studio musicians pretty much. The brass section and especially horn sound is amazing. When they blast the Rose's theme(not liked here:blink:) in some action track with 10 horn unisono you MUST love that!! 

 

The Fathiers is probably closest what is the most perfect music for me. And the building of the excitement to the perfect rendition of Rey's theme(horns again) in The Battle of Crait is one of the best in JW's career. 

 

Well, brass is undeniably Williams' strongest, and the music of Star Wars is the most brass-heavy in his catalog.

 

I, on the other hand, very much see the human voice as the finest of all instruments, and so my preferences in terms of the two scores in question is clear. It doesn't mean that I'm going about calling my prefered musical franchise an "achievement without peer"...

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Yes. I should understand that there are people who do not like that brassy scores....for me they are just perfect.

 

Oh, you edited, so I'll add that the human voice parts in Lotr are the only ones I like. Except those horrible end credit songs:blink:

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17 hours ago, Richard said:

 

As far as I have read, watched, and heard, the Pope has never talked about Christianity, except to disown it, but that is a good story...for another time :)

 

Do you spend a lot of time reading about and watching the pope?

 

:P

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17 minutes ago, hornist said:

Yes. I should understand that there are people who do not like that brassy scores....for me they are just perfect.

 

Oh, you edited, so I'll add that the human voice parts in Lotr are the only ones I like. Except those horrible end credit songs:blink:

 

I love brassy scores too. Oh and Rose's theme has grown on me actually, it's pretty uplifting in the action material. 

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

I don't like his xylophones.

 

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

But he's still good at it.

 

1 hour ago, publicist said:

I do not agree.

 

You have got to be joking. 

 

 

I don't know what fuckwit of a planet you're listening from, pub, but I'd kill for a bit of action writing like this in the latest movies. 

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

Williams is pretty good at strings and woodwinds, too. 

 

Oh, sure. But most composers have certain strengths. Williams' is the brass section. Shore's the voices.

 

1 hour ago, publicist said:

I don't like his xylophones.

 

Sometimes, the brightness of the sound of the Xylophone or Glockenspiel in his writing breaks up the tension in his music: e.g. The Mustafar material.

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19 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

 

 

You have got to be joking. 

 

 

I don't know what fuckwit of a planet you're listening from, pub, but I'd kill for a bit of action writing like this in the latest movies. 

 

What are you talking about?

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11 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

 

TGP,  there's no need for that.

 

Oh, I would never argue otherwise.

 

Sorry to hurt your fee fees opining 'bout Howard. I am certain he appreciates your heroic defense!;)

 

 

11 hours ago, Sandor said:

I’d like to believe both Star Wars and The Lord Of The Rings represent the very best in multifilm scoring.

 

I like both series for different -and a lot of the same- reasons.

 

Star Wars has the stronger themes and more complex orchestrations, The Lord Of The Rings is emotionally speaking more solid and has a sense of unity unlike anything out there.

 

Is it possible to just like both without the need to debate which is better?

 

 

 

Heretics must be burned!

 

 

10 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

But it's one of those people who post infrequently, about one thing, who has no rapport with anyone here, and who comes in with the guns of self righteousness and indignation blazing. 

 

The line must drawn here. This far, no farther. 

 

How many 'rapport points' are required to give an observation about one's own subjective musical tastes? Must've missed that in the forum rules.

 

 

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Now that's the right way to frame one's enjoyment of one of the score over the other. Not with bold "Williams' work is without peer" nonesense.

 

Although I'd say some of Shore's best work is with woodwinds. They're his instruments, as a musician.

 

I must in fairness (after a rather cheap shot) say that your writings on the LOTR scores have inspired me to take another look at them, that I haven't since, oh, 2003 or so.

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11 hours ago, Sandor said:

 

Is it possible to just like both without the need to debate which is better?

 

 

 

Actually, we all like both. But it's fine to discuss aesthetics sometimes! And then it's inevitable to express preferences. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Marcus said:

 

 

As a professional composer, I have to say that Williams' strength is more than just his brass writing. 

 

Rather, he has a knack for making the entire orchestra really shine in music that is complex, but very rewarding to play. 

I can't think of that many composers who write more consistently to each choir's strengths, while at the same time keeping instrumentational choices interesting, and often unorthodox, even if the subtleties of his craft may elude the casual listener. 

 

I think it's easy to take Williams for granted, simply because there's such an elegance and panache to his style. Everything works, and sounds perfectly polished.

But there are so many layers of not only expertise, but genuine artfulness and inventiveness to his orchestrational choices, and his way of seeing the orchestra, his concept of what an orchestra is. 

 

One thing that ought to be studied more by any aspiring composer when it comes to Williams, is the economy of his writing, and just how much mileage he can get from even a solo instrument. There's often a chamber-like lucidity in passages even from his most heavily orchestrated scores. He knows exactly what colors can be achieved by peeling away, as well as by layering. 

 

I think this modus operandi, which really bears more resemblance to how a concert composer might approach an orchestra, is part of what makes Williams' scores stand out. He is simply an outstanding practitioner of his craft by any standard. 

 

Not to compare the two, but Howard Shore is an entirely different kind of composer. His dedication seems to be to the film he scores, and not to the craft of writing music per se. His Middle Earth scores do an outstanding job of imagining and creating a musical landscape for Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien's mythology. But concert performances of those scores, as popular as they might be, tend to fall a little flat, simply because Shore isn't a particularly skillful orchestrator. There are a lot of choices that end up sounding very forced because of how unidiomatically written they are. I think Conrad Pope's contributions rectified some of it, but there's still the problem of the music perhaps having been conceived more abstractly. 

You can tell (and this, I'm sure it could be argued, is for better or for worse) that Williams conceives his music with the orchestra, or a particular instrument, in mind, lending a sense of natural grace and fluency to his writing. 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree, even on the commas and the full stops.

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20 minutes ago, Marcus said:

 

 

As a professional composer, I have to say that Williams' strength is more than just his brass writing. 

 

Rather, he has a knack for making the entire orchestra really shine in music that is complex, but very rewarding to play. 

I can't think of that many composers who write more consistently to each choir's strengths, while at the same time keeping instrumentational choices interesting, and often unorthodox, even if the subtleties of his craft may elude the casual listener. 

 

I think it's easy to take Williams for granted, simply because there's such an elegance and panache to his style. Everything works, and sounds perfectly polished.

But there are so many layers of not only expertise, but genuine artfulness and inventiveness to his orchestrational choices, and his way of seeing the orchestra, his concept of what an orchestra is. 

 

One thing that ought to be studied more by any aspiring composer when it comes to Williams, is the economy of his writing, and just how much mileage he can get from even a solo instrument. There's often a chamber-like lucidity in passages even from his most heavily orchestrated scores. He knows exactly what colors can be achieved by peeling away, as well as by layering. 

 

I think this modus operandi, which really bears more resemblance to how a concert composer might approach an orchestra, is part of what makes Williams' scores stand out. He is simply an outstanding practitioner of his craft by any standard. 

 

Not to compare the two, but Howard Shore is an entirely different kind of composer. His dedication seems to be to the film he scores, and not to the craft of writing music per se. His Middle Earth scores do an outstanding job of imagining and creating a musical landscape for Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien's mythology. But concert performances of those scores, as popular as they might be, tend to fall a little flat, simply because Shore isn't a particularly skillful orchestrator. There are a lot of choices that end up sounding very forced because of how unidiomatically written they are. I think Conrad Pope's contributions rectified some of it, but there's still the problem of the music perhaps having been conceived more abstractly. 

You can tell (and this, I'm sure it could be argued, is for better or for worse) that Williams conceives his music with the orchestra, or a particular instrument, in mind, lending a sense of natural grace and fluency to his writing. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly what I would write if I had that talent.

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10 hours ago, Chen G. said:

That's my point: not to show that one is better than the other, but to show that one cannot make such bold claims regarding either of the two. 

 

What do you mean one "cannot?" Of course one can make such bold claims. One can say whatever one likes about either score. And one can disagree with another ones opinion as one will according to one's want.

 

That's how its supposed to work. Here at JWFan, we're One...but we're not the same. One day you'll realise that.

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29 minutes ago, Score said:

 

Actually, we all like both. But it's fine to discuss aesthetics sometimes! And then it's inevitable to express preferences. 

 

 

Certainly. Preference wise, and continuing on from earlier in relation to action material, I prefer Star Wars. But let's be totally honest here: John Williams runs rings around Howard Shore where action writing is concerned, there's just no contest between them. Shore is a fine composer, but his repetitious action writing has always been his weakness as a composer of film scores. There are highlights, sure. But these are the exception. 

 

Quintus - if forced to choose between Williams' complete Star Wars works and Shore's LOTR CR, would choose LOTR. 

 

 

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