John Williams nominated for 51st Oscar, for "The Last Jedi"

[crocodile 7,978]

49 minutes ago, Amer said:

Good to see Williams nabbing another Nomination in his STAR WARS corpus as I was thinking he would be nominated. But  I am surprised THE POST didnt garner the obligatory Oscar nod. I have neither heard the score or seen the movie so I really can't judge. 

Maybe they are giving him a nomination because of SW's 40th anniversary and his own 60th anniversary. Who knows, it might actually work in his favour.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

1 hour ago, igger6 said:

Williams' winning for TLJ and not for TFA would be bittersweet, but a win's a win, and he's sorely underpaid in Oscar gold for his contributions to the art form.

 

The score to TLJ feels like the culmination of 40 year of Star Wars music, so in that regards it would be a fitting win.

[KK 3,307]

Does the Academy actually pay attention to all that stuff?

[crocodile 7,978]

2 minutes ago, KK said:

Does the Academy actually pay attention to all that stuff?

Hard to predict.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

It certainly makes it feel more epic if you're recognising the old themes, expertly combined with the new music.

[Chen G. 3,941]

But that's what makes it almost pandering.

 

Its the musical equivalent of the plot of The Force Awakens or the dialogue of Rogue One.

 

If it were Episode IX, all this recycling of themes would have a been easier to contextualize from a narrative standpoint. But, sadly, its not.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I think whether or not the academy will recognize the legacy of Williams and the franchise comes down to how much investment Disney puts into campaigning for it. If they went all out, they could surely net him a win. As it stands, I doubt they will, but campaigning is hugely important to these things. It’s extremely rare for anyone in any category to win without campaigning. That’s why it was such an upset when Mark Rylance won a few years ago after not campaigning at all.

[Remco 685]

I think this could be a step-up for a nomination and win for Ep IX. 

 

An oscar for the final installment of the franchise would be so fitting, but it’d be kind of weird when VIII wouldn’t be nominated at all. So there’s hope!

[gkgyver 1,645]

TLJ winning over all previous 5 Star Wars scores would be as negatively amazing as Skyfall winning Best Song over literally every other Bond song in history.

 

The Post at least grabs my attention, which TLJ rarely did.

[Tom 4,631]

Here is something to consider regarding The Post vs. TLJ:  While TLJ has a lot of thematic material from previous films, the combination of the new themes/motifs/new interstitial music exceeds (I would say far exceeds) 40 minutes, which is the length of the entire Post soundtrack.  Thus, even discounting the cues with previous SW material (even though even there many are new arrangements), TLJ has more new music than The Post.  

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

12 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

TLJ winning over all previous 5 Star Wars scores would be as negatively amazing as Skyfall winning Best Song over literally every other Bond song in history.

 

The Post at least grabs my attention, which TLJ rarely did.

Skyfall > literally every other Bond song in history

[Chen G. 3,941]

True, but the point nevertheless stands.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

37 minutes ago, Remco said:

I think this could be a step-up for a nomination and win for Ep IX. 

 

An oscar for the final installment of the franchise would be so fitting, but it’d be kind of weird when VIII wouldn’t be nominated at all. So there’s hope!

 

Many people are proposing this - that if JW gets nommed again for 9 - he will win again.

 

I think it is a possibility and to counter the problem that voters might have that there is too much usage of old material - he should severely limit old themes in 9.

 

- Limit to 5 our less Force Theme appearences

- Luke's theme only during main title and end credits

- no Han Solo and Leia, Luke and Leia, Leia, Imperial March, Yoda, Snoke, Ach-To themes

- main themes should be Rey, Kylo, Rose, Resistance, Poe

- and many new themes

 

It will allow him to slightly narrow the scope thematically (I think he was working with too many themes in 8) and allow him to develop the new trilogy themes and also create some new material.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

42 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

TLJ winning over all previous 5 Star Wars scores would be as negatively amazing as Skyfall winning Best Song over literally every other Bond song in history.

 

The Post at least grabs my attention, which TLJ rarely did.

 

You don't find the score to TESB better than TLJ?

[James 119]

These headlines are so satisfying.

John Williams Just Broke His Own Oscar Nomination Record—Again

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/john-williams-oscar-nomination-record

 

 

[Chen G. 3,941]

9 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

to counter the problem that voters might have that there is too much usage of old material - he should severely limit old themes in 9.

 

- Limit to 5 our less Force Theme appearences

- Luke's theme only during main title and end credits

- no Han Solo and Leia, Luke and Leia, Leia, Imperial March, Yoda, Snoke, Ach-To themes

- main themes should be Rey, Kylo, Rose, Resistance, Poe

- and many new themes

 

It will allow him to slightly narrow the scope thematically (I think he was working with too many themes in 8) and allow him to develop the new trilogy themes and also create some new material.

 

But that's the catch of the ninth film - being the resolution to the entire thing (at least, that's what it should be) you'd actually expect the old themes to have a strong presence. But, because that's what we got in this installment, Williams has wrote himself into a corner, as it were.

[Remco 685]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

But that's the catch of the ninth film - being the resolution to the entire thing (at least, that's what it should be) you'd actually expect the old themes to have a strong presence. But, because that's what we got in this installment, Williams has wrote himself into a corner, as it were.

 

Don’t expect anything from IX as no one knows how the movie will be. VIII saw many returning themes because that’s what the movie asked for. Maybe IX will be like that, maybe not.

[gkgyver 1,645]

41 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Skyfall > literally every other Bond song in history

 

Skyfall = literally every other Bond song in history.

[Balahkay 627]

When you all say "old themes," do you mean themes from the OT, PT or just all the pre-existing themes (including TFA and now TLJ)?

 

56 minutes ago, Tom said:

Here is something to consider regarding The Post vs. TLJ:  While TLJ has a lot of thematic material from previous films, the combination of the new themes/motifs/new interstitial music exceeds (I would say far exceeds) 40 minutes, which is the length of the entire Post soundtrack.  Thus, even discounting the cues with previous SW material (even though even there many are new arrangements), TLJ has more new music than The Post.  

 

This is a good point.  Also, maybe The Post would have garnered a Best Score nom if it received more nominations in other categories.  I mean, Spielberg didn't even a nom for Best Director.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

Maybe they are giving him a nomination because of SW's 40th anniversary and his own 60th anniversary. Who knows, it might actually work in his favour.

 

Karol

 

I dunno, I haven't heard anybody talking about the 40th anniversary of SW since the summer, and haven't seen Williams's 60th year of scoring movies being made into a big thing anywhere.

 

I think that sort of stuff means a lot less than we usually think. It reminds me a little of when Philip Seymour Hoffman and James Gandolfini had turned out some really good final performances and people figured they'd have to get posthumous nominations, but they didn't.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Here is something to consider regarding The Post vs. TLJ:  While TLJ has a lot of thematic material from previous films, the combination of the new themes/motifs/new interstitial music exceeds (I would say far exceeds) 40 minutes, which is the length of the entire Post soundtrack.  Thus, even discounting the cues with previous SW material (even though even there many are new arrangements), TLJ has more new music than The Post.  

 

I think maybe the film was too sparsely spotted for the academy's taste? The score undeniably is of a high quality and has an impact in the film. But it really kicks into high gear very late in the film during the climatic scenes basically.

[filmmusic 1,822]

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 but now I fear the academy voters look at his music more like old-fashioned instead of "fresh" as they did in 1978.

But ... indeed it isn't fresh..

 

I listened to The Shape of Water for the first time earlier, and that whistle used in the main theme, sounded to me fresh.

Something that I haven't listened from Williams for years!

 

I think the last "fresh" score was Memoirs of a Geisha.

 

edit: Oh, and the main title to Tintin.

[Chen G. 3,941]

1 hour ago, Remco said:

VIII saw many returning themes because that’s what the movie asked for. Maybe IX will be like that, maybe not.

 

Even when the film revisits plot elements (characters, places, etc) a composer can still find new ways the keep things fresh. He doesn't have to slavishly follow what's happening on screen. Its also not beyond Wiliams to write a brand new theme for an existing character.

[Bayesian 1,354]

1 hour ago, James said:

These headlines are so satisfying.

John Williams Just Broke His Own Oscar Nomination Record—Again

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/john-williams-oscar-nomination-record

 

 

 

Very satisfying headline indeed! But at the end of her piece, the writer gets it wrong, saying that JW will be scoring Solo and Jurassic World. (If only...)

[Thor 7,453]

General remarks about the music noms:

 

I'm not particularly fond of any of them, to be honest.

I've only seen STAR WARS and DUNKIRK, but I've heard them all.

THREE BILLBOARDS is OK, but nothing outside the usual Burwellisms (which are always on/off to me)

THE SHAPE OF WATER was a huge bore, IMO. Desplat with his endless ostinati. But I think I'll like the film. It's very much "my taste".

PHANTOM THREAD is intriguing and more accesible than a few of Greenwood's earlier pieces, but it has a sense of 'detachment" and grittiness that eventually grate a bit.

I found THE LAST JEDI hugely disappointing with its incessant, whimsical nature. It's a scandal that THE POST wasn't nominated instead, which is FAR superior -- both in and out of context.

DUNKIRK is brilliant in the movie, but I have a hard time getting into it on album.

So many better scores ignored! But that's almost always the case with the Oscars.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

I agree regarding The Shape of Water - it's indeed a huge bore (at least on album). I don't mind repetitive music, but it still needs a certain amount of development. Regarding the "whistling" theme, it just cements my impression that Desplat's not a great tunesmith. Interestingly, there's several elements reminiscent of JW, especially his scores to The Terminal and The Accidental Tourist.

 

When it comes to Dunkirk (on album)... well, the less said, the better. 

[King Mark 3,624]

6 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Happy JW was nominated again.

 

Will he win this time? Don't count on it!

 

I gave up on JW ever winning another Oscar around 2005, when he didn't win for POA! 

 We never had a JWfan oscar win celebration

[crumbs 14,287]

Congratulations Maestro! Surprised it wasn't The Post, but IMO The Last Jedi is the greater technical achievement.

 

The Post is a fantastic and restrained score but Williams can write scores like that in his sleep; the complexity of writing in TLJ (and the clever integration of older themes and musical easter eggs) is simply unsurpassed by his contempories; only Williams can write at such a high technical level with music for orchestra.

 

I think it's also the music branch recognizing that an 85 year old writing music like this (and with such volume at 180+ minutes) is almost incomprehensible, and rewarding him for his continued dedication to the saga. Once all is said and done, every film in this new trilogy should have a score nomination and it'll hopefully be capped off with a book-ending win.

[James 119]

2 hours ago, Scintillating_CA said:

 

Very satisfying headline indeed! But at the end of her piece, the writer gets it wrong, saying that JW will be scoring Solo and Jurassic World. (If only...)

 

We can not deny that it is a half truth.

[artguy360 1,842]

I wish The Post had been nominated instead. During key scenes the music really jumps out at you in the most fantastic way. 

[crocodile 7,978]

2 hours ago, Scintillating_CA said:

 

Very satisfying headline indeed! But at the end of her piece, the writer gets it wrong, saying that JW will be scoring Solo and Jurassic World. (If only...)

Maybe they fired Giacchino after Williams had a chance to hear the previous one?

 

Karol

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

28 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Maybe they fired Giacchino after Williams had a chance to hear the previous one?

 

Karol

Now THAT would be a delightful surprise! 

[crumbs 14,287]

That's why he passed on Ready Player One!

[Josh500 1,615]

Not sure why, but I have only listened to TLJ only two or three times for far, right after I got it.

 

I'm gonna start listening to it again....

[Will 2,215]

I agree that TLJ is the greater achievement overall, but I am much more emotionally attracted to The Post. TFA had lots of drop-dead gorgeous writing (e.g. "You Got a Name?" and "Farewell and the Trip") whereas for the most part TLJ doesn't. But stuff like "Mother and Daughter" from The Post really does feel sincere, and reaches that emotional perfection that I expect JW to deliver. And I do think that "The Presses Roll" is the best JW cue of the year, although it's very close with stuff like "Escape."

[Arpy 4,145]

I think The Post deserved the nomination, but TLJ is alright too.

[King Mark 3,624]

I'd rather he be nominated to TLJ.

 

If he won for the Post it would feel like he got cheated for a lot of his previous scores

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, king mark said:

I'd rather he be nominated to TLJ.

 

If he won for the Post it would feel like he got cheated for a lot of his previous scores

 

? 

 

I reckon he's been cheated either way.

[Fancyarcher 350]

I probably would have preferred a Post nom, as I found to be the overall more engaging / interesting of the two, but TLJ is absolutely worthy too, and much more surprising.

 

24 minutes ago, Arpy said:

 

? 

 

I reckon he's been cheated either way.

 

Yep. Williams should have a few more Oscars then he does already. It's not like he's going to win for either The Post or The Last Jedi anyway. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

4 hours ago, Will said:

I agree that TLJ is the greater achievement overall, but I am much more emotionally attracted to The Post. TFA had lots of drop-dead gorgeous writing (e.g. "You Got a Name?" and "Farewell and the Trip") whereas for the most part TLJ doesn't. But stuff like "Mother and Daughter" from The Post really does feel sincere, and reaches that emotional perfection that I expect JW to deliver. And I do think that "The Presses Roll" is the best JW cue of the year, although it's very close with stuff like "Escape."

 

The Post hasn't got The Spark...

[crumbs 14,287]

The Spark, Escape and Presses Roll are probably my 3 favourite cues of last year.

[ocelot 508]

To me the score to The Last Jedi far outshines The Post, so I'm happy he was nominated for that one. 

 

Someone above said they gave up on JW winning another Oscar after he did not win for POA. I agree, that AND Memoirs of a Geisha which I believe was two years after....

11 hours ago, crumbs said:

Congratulations Maestro! Surprised it wasn't The Post, but IMO The Last Jedi is the greater technical achievement.

 

The Post is a fantastic and restrained score but Williams can write scores like that in his sleep; the complexity of writing in TLJ (and the clever integration of older themes and musical easter eggs) is simply unsurpassed by his contempories; only Williams can write at such a high technical level with music for orchestra.

 

I think it's also the music branch recognizing that an 85 year old writing music like this (and with such volume at 180+ minutes) is almost incomprehensible, and rewarding him for his continued dedication to the saga. Once all is said and done, every film in this new trilogy should have a score nomination and it'll hopefully be capped off with a book-ending win.

Exactly! Thank you! His orchestral writing is second to none right now. His orchestrations and and sheer magnitude of some of the writing is mind boggling. I love how he makes the orchestra work, and you can hear how much they love playing it too. A different sound comes out of the orchestra when they are relishing the music in front of them. BTW that is why samples will never truly capture the orchestra. It's the people playing the instruments that give it life! And you can hear it here and in all his Star Wars scores. One of my best friends, Roberto Sorentino, sits 4th chair cello in the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. we were talking about the same thing. It's a different energy when they are doing film scores and they get to someone like Korngold, Waxman, or Williams. The writing is on another level and it's doesn't bore them to sleep to play it. Although it reminds me of two years ago when they were on tour in China and he was so jet lagged he fell asleep in the middle of the concert, hahaha. OMG I would have been mortified, lol, but I'm sure it happens to the best of them on tour all the time

[gkgyver 1,645]

TLJ outshines The Post in the number of notes, certainly not in impact.

[ocelot 508]

1 minute ago, gkgyver said:

TLJ outshines The Post in the number of notes, certainly not in impact.

Subjective though, right? Music hits us all in different ways. That's why I said "To me". 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Neither of you wrote IMO or IMHO, so I personally didn't realize you were being subjective.

[gkgyver 1,645]

1 hour ago, ocelot said:

Subjective though, right? Music hits us all in different ways. That's why I said "To me". 

 

Doesn't count, though, when you explain on this board why TLJ is dissapointing.

 

Then subjectivity suddenly starts to offend everybody.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

In my experience, it's often the way things are said which offends the most.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

I agree it's all subjective, I don't know if people in an art forum need to post "imo" in order to make that known. Unless they're trying to make it a debate or an attack on others' opinions, saying that something sucks I think can be assumed to be opinion. I can't treat music too factually with the highest rated albums of all time being like OK Computer and disagreeing with that tremendously, almost to the point of personal offense. Soundtrack is to me unique upon each interpretation. Sometimes it's about fitting a film to a subjective impression. ie. The Lion King OST with the film was absolutely perfect, while by itself it was quite flawed. Jurassic Park was much better than Schindler's List, etc. There are a number of angles to subjectively interpret music and its achievements.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

59 minutes ago, Borodin said:

 Jurassic Park was much better than Schindler's List, etc.

Wrong!

[FC4L 87]

On 1/23/2018 at 2:25 PM, Thor said:

DUNKIRK is brilliant in the movie, but I have a hard time getting into it on album.
 

 

Um no. It was as pretentious as Nolan insisted his film be in all facets to slap the audience in the face. The music was a major point my friend ripped apart as we were half-way through this BORE of a film and he broke the silence to question pretty much everything happening. Brilliant and Dunkirk are 2 words that should never be used together. Ever.