Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 A lot of composers over the decades have attempted to capture the "John Williams sound", to varying results. One aspect that many seem to stumble though is on the rhythm...one of John Williams' many strengths is how...well, not square he is. His rhythms can be very fluid, dynamic, and sometimes, just downright funky. This thread is for us to share our favorite instances of the Maestro getting groovy. While The Lost World is the most obvious contender, I encourage you to go beyond; I'll start with some examples off the top of my head! This track could be sampled by a hip hop artist, and I would be nothing but pleased. 3:29 to 3:53 Listen to that dope-ass brass line! And of course, the piano line that bustles throughout this track. Looking forward to hearing what you guys bring up! In addition, I'm curious to know: is John Williams' sense of rhythm one of the reasons why you enjoy listening to his work? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,499 Posted January 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2018 I just watched Azkaban this morning, so naturally The Whomping Willow, one of my favourite cues ever came to mind, especially the sudden sections with the different rythm (this one took quite a few dozen listens to memorise back in the day ). Come on, Warner, let LLL/MM do it already! Will, toothless and Chewy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,478 Posted January 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2018 That's not groovy. THIS is groovy: dtw42, Holko, Naïve Old Fart and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 OK, here's the cheap shot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,508 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Thor said: That's not groovy. THIS is groovy: Fuck, yeah!!!!!!!!!! That's what I'm talkin' about!! Say, John. Whoa! That's a bad soundtrack Whoa!!! Don't forget, MILES ON WHEELS, MILE'S POOL HOOL, SOMETHING FOR ROSA, TO LOVE, and TRAINING MONTAGE (ok, maybe not TM, but the rest are groove personified). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Heartbeeps is where it's at, yo. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The more significant examples I can think of aren't when he writes simple offbeat note-hit sequences. To me it's things like when ie. his strings find a new pace even though the tempo is staying the same, when there's a brilliant melody and he writes off-beat counter melody to stagger and flow its progression, when he writes counter-melody in the bass and it recreates the piece into something else, when he's "testing spots" within a measure to see where a rhythm will most-catchily fit, when he puts forth a new blaring motif that kinda fits and complements the original tempo, etc. I think people are finding and posting whole pieces of this, but there are so many perfect examples of him doing this all the time, in just the right 3 second spots in a movie. In a sense, it's kinda like his thing. crumbs and Will 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Zam the Assassin is groovy as hell. Midway Main Titles too. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Basically all his action music is pretty groovy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Thanks for your responses so far, guys! A lot of great examples...I find it more compelling, though, to look for instances where the idiom isn't as quite one-to-one as something like Cinderella Liberty, or that one track from Eiger Sanction (which I contradicted by posting Earthquake ). One of the beauties of John Williams as a composer is his ability, as all great artists, to synthesize his many influences in a way that sound uniquely and distinctly him. For example, his "jazz" roots suffuse so many of his enduring pieces, like Schindler's List. 32 minutes ago, Borodin said: The more significant examples I can think of aren't when he writes simple offbeat note-hit sequences. To me it's things like when ie. his strings find a new pace even though the tempo is staying the same, when there's a brilliant melody and he writes off-beat counter melody to stagger and flow its progression, when he writes counter-melody in the bass and it recreates the piece into something else, when he's "testing spots" within a measure to see where a rhythm will most-catchily fit, when he puts forth a new blaring motif that kinda fits and complements the original tempo, etc. I think people are finding and posting whole pieces of this, but there are so many perfect examples of him doing this all the time, in just the right 3 second spots in a movie. In a sense, it's kinda like his thing One can be syncopated without being groovy, though; in some of the cases listed above, you can hear how he'll set up a certain pulse, and play off of/tweak it in a way that can only only result in nodding your head. No one makes polymetric music groove quite like he can! I can go deeper on that, but I don't wish to ramble. I would love to hear some examples of what you're saying so I can understand exactly what you're referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Oh yes. Very true, you're right. I guess I'd tend to view other composers as more groovy in that sense then, not where syncopation is excessive but where rhythms are unique with a bit of syncopation. For instance Homeward Bound has some groovy scoring in the river scene and bear scene. I'm not as sure about JW. I like your examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Here's another one! That theme in the lower end throughout! Also, that part that I think underscores when Palpatine is getting his lightning reflected back to him is an example of non-groovy syncopation. On 1/31/2018 at 5:58 PM, Loert said: Zam the Assassin is groovy as hell. Agreed! A lot of people seem to complain about John Williams' action writing in the 21st century as being too hyperkinetic and unfocused, but with cues like Zam I feel like he's almost using the orchestra as one massive drum kit! Like each "sonic presence" of every note from every every instrument is a different drum hit. I think it would be very interesting if someone were to transcribe the piece and perform it as exactly that, for solo drum set. As a side note, a big inspiration for this thread came from a time about five years ago, when I was doing music in Chicago. I just had a keyboard shipped in, and one of my roommates, a rapper, asked me to play something for him. I started playing Bernard Herrmann's "Concerto Macabre" and almost immediately he exploded. "Man, that's dope!" and started talking about how awesome a beat that would be for one of his albums. He asked me to play the intro again, and as I played he started beatboxing over it. From then on, I had a new appreciation of how a composer creates a certain groove with various means. As Lalo Schifrin once said, "Mozart didn't need a rhythm section to cook." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 When he gets down, does he still wear a turtleneck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,640 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, gkgyver said: When he gets down, does he still wear a turtleneck? Just a turtleneck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Resurrecting this thread (it deserves it!) after being reminded of this track by Solo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 The Imperial dance party section of Luke's First Crash after the walker destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 You know, guys, naming all these classically symphonic pieces 'groovy' will not get you laid. Kasey Kockroach and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Have you tried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Thor said: You know, guys, naming all these classically symphonic pieces 'groovy' will not get you laid. Is that a sense of humor I detect, Thor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 32 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: Is that a sense of humor I detect, Thor? No, I refute that notion. Kasey Kockroach and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Thor said: No, I refute that notion. Aw, shame then. It makes no sense to think groove magically popped up somewhere in the last hundred years, conforming to a very particular sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 This is the strangest thread title I've witnessed in this forum. So many jokes to be made about it, I don't know where to start! This is pretty funky, dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: This is the strangest thread title I've witnessed in this forum. So many jokes to be made about it, I don't know where to start! This is pretty funky, dudes. Stop posting with your kockroach, kasey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 My mind didn't go to jokes when I saw the thread title. I thought it might be a thread speculating how Williams might try to cheer himself up when he's feeling a bit blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I've always loved this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, karelm said: I've always loved this. Oh snap, I didn't realize they put out a score for it! (this arrangement sounds pretty close to the original). We kind of talked about it in the thread you made about this piece song a few months ago, but this is a cool example of John Williams working within a very particular idiom, and throwing in his own idiosyncrasies and personal quirks (whereas I feel like many of the examples of this thread illustrate the opposite, in a sense). The way he voices those brass hits, the things he does to add variety and complexity...from someone whose first professional experience was playing in big bands, I feel confident in saying that you're not gonna hear those things in every chart out there. 54 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: My mind didn't go to jokes when I saw the thread title. I thought it might be a thread speculating how Williams might try to cheer himself up when he's feeling a bit blue And what do you think that would be, Mr. Disco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: And what do you think that would be, Mr. Disco? Maybe play a favorite old melody on his piano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Maybe play a favorite old melody on his piano? Michael Giacchino gifted him his score for Rogue One; when Williams is sad, he thumbs through some random pages and plays from them, consoling himself that no matter how blue he gets, he knows there will be those worse off than himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Nick Parker said: Michael Giacchino gifted him his score for Rogue One; when Williams is sad, he thumbs through some random pages and plays from them, consoling himself that no matter how blue he gets, he knows there will be those worse off than himself. "Poor Mike. People hate everything he touches, while everyone worships everything I touch! If only we could switch places, just for one day..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Sandor said: WHAT. DID. I SAY!?!? On 1/31/2018 at 6:21 PM, Nick Parker said: Thanks for your responses so far, guys! A lot of great examples...I find it more compelling, though, to look for instances where the idiom isn't as quite one-to-one as something like Cinderella Liberty, or that one track from Eiger Sanction 11 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: "Poor Mike. People hate everything he touches, while everyone worships everything I touch! If only we could switch places, just for one day..." "I could score a film with Bryce Dallas Howard...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 "But then people wouldn't be paying attention to the score, they'd be focusing on the dame!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, kaseykockroach said: "But then people wouldn't be paying attention to the score, they'd be focusing on the dame!" John Williams: *discreetly gets Twitter and sits by phone for hours waiting for Howard to mention his score* "Howard mentioned me, Howard mentioned me!" *checks notification: @ronhoward: Thanks to @johnpowell and @johnwilliams for great #Solo score!" *throws phone* "Damn it!" Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: John Williams: *discreetly gets Twitter and sits by phone for hours waiting for Howard to mention his score* "Howard mentioned me, Howard mentioned me!" *checks notification: @ronhoward: Thanks to @johnpowell and @johnwilliams for great #Solo score!" *throws phone* "Damn it!" "John Williams did such a great job on Solo! WAY better than his music for The Force Awakens or Last Jedi, or that bloated prequel crap!" John Williams: B-But, w-wait, I...I didn't....DAMN IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 This somehow balances being incredibly generic '90s scoring and just plain being cool: Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 No offense, but that's one of the worst JW tracks, IMO. It always makes me think of elevators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Personnaly, in Star Wars, those rythms/motives still haunt me. The first one, you will say this is John Williams's version of Mars from Holst, but it's very John Williams, who played with this motive... and be honest... improved it. Whatever he touch, he improve it. This rythm in Star Wars End Titles, enough more : Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: No offense, but that's one of the worst JW tracks, IMO. It always makes me think of elevators. This is the boring take. Will and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I like it. It's the kind of fusion jazz that Dave Grusin sometimes did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Its quite 90's indeed, but its well composed. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I might like it if he does an orchestra arrangement with a more funky rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I prefer "Rain Ride" from Maestro Edelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I believe "Mountain Dance" by Grusin is what people refer to regarding "Banning Back Home", and I can understand why: Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,833 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Did anyone ever play the game “Theme Hospital” on PC? Banning Back Home sounds like it’s just been lifted straight out of that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I already play the game "Genital Hospital", does it count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Just listened to Banning Back Home last night; fun track! Goes to show that even when he has to follow some trend or temp track, he has the musical depth and chops to really pull it off! Interesting to hear a time when John Williams was still a film composer in that sense. 52 minutes ago, Bespin said: I already play the game "Genital Hospital", does it count? No, @Bespin, it doesn't count! Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,508 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 22 hours ago, Thor said: I believe "Mountain Dance" by Grusin is what people refer to regarding "Banning Back Home", and I can understand why: This is damn good!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 When William Ross John Williams Gets Down artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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