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Stefancos

Game Of Thrones Showrunners tackle Star Wars.

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14 hours ago, Quintus said:

Can't say I'm surprised by yet more new Star Warses in the making (why the hell else would Disney purchase the rights), but I do have to wonder about franchise fatigue and the very real threat it poses... to a franchise's longterm health. I've seen it happen in the game's industry, people get sick to death of once beloved series and they eventually need a break from it. Disney should know when to take timeout for a few years after Solo and then Epi 9, but there's no way they'll take any notice of such warnings. 

 

I agree with you but the ever enduring popularity of the Marvel films probably has them sold on the idea that audiences want more of the stuff they like, not less.

 

Disney is on a roll, an epic roll and I guess they will squeeze every single cent out of it they can while it lasts.

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6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Or use it to solidify it's position as the #1 entertainment outlet for movies and TV shows in the world?

 

 

 

That used to be 20th Century Fox. And before that, it was Warner Bros. in its rivalry with MGM.

 

Disney will be usurped by a larger and more aggressive industrial predator at some point. There's always a bigger fish.

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5 minutes ago, Quintus said:

The irony of Spielberg's name headlining a lot of those shows back in the day was of course that they were nearly always shit. 

 

ER was quality TV at the time, but SS didnt actually have a lot to dow ith it. And that Animaniacs stuff was pretty good.

 

But yeah. Spielbergs name had commercial value, so they stuck it on there. 

 

Disney is a far stronger brand than SS though. Especially for parents.

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2 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

Are you sure because some articles state it's another SW series exclusively for Disney's upcoming stand-alone streaming service. 

 

https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/6/16981232/star-wars-series-disney-streaming

 

Yes, I am 100% sure.  Both the Variety link Stefan put in the main post and the StarWars.com link Luka put in the second post clearly state B&W are doing a series of live action theatrical films.  The streaming service will have a Star Wars live action TV series, which is unrelated to these major films.

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A lot of the choices made by Rian Johnson make a lot of sense.

One of them I even predicted as being the most surprising choice possible.

So I understand why he did what he did and I agree that this was necessary if Star Wars is to have any sort of long-term future.

That being said, the movie isn't perfect at all and the intention is here and there better than the execution.

 

Likewise, having a lot more Star Wars films being developed is predictable as well.

They were always going to head for the Marvel approach, weren't they?

 

I think maybe Rian Johnson got a new trilogy because he wasn't afraid to do what needed to be done.

But on the other hand, he probably wanted to make a different film from the "necessary" one.

And so he negotiated making another Star Wars film that he can make the way he wants, rather then TLJ which is probably more "not the film fans deserve, but the film fans need".

 

Could they now start focusing on different demographics with different films?

It would make sense, I suppose, as pleasing everyone with the same films is basically impossible.

Not sure I'm interested in "Game of Thrones in Space" though.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

No it's a new trilogy of theatrical films.

 

It doesn’t say trilogy anywhere in the press release. Just a series of films.

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1 minute ago, Bilbo said:

It doesn’t say trilogy anywhere in the press release. Just a series of films.

 

Right right, series not necessarily trilogy, my bad

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

Possibly made-for-streaming films?

 

Why? They’re guaranteed to make a billion in theatres and they’ll be using the TV shows to win streaming subscriptions.

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Guys just read the Variety article in the main post of this thread:

 

Quote

Disney did not give a timeline for when these new Benioff and Weiss-penned films will hit theaters. On an earnings call, Disney CEO Bob Iger said that the two men had approached the studio with an idea a while ago.  Even though the duo made their name in television, Iger said they were not interested in doing something on the small screen.

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19 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

Who knows right? I also wonder what this says about Kathleen Kennedy's position.  She's not a story person the way Kevin Feige is, and has pretty much left the directors to their own devices...which has led to some expensive mistakes and the basic reboot of the new films with TLJ.

Kathleen Kennedy has no need to be hands-on in shaping the story.

Disney has an entire Star Wars Story Departement for that, led by Pablo Hidalgo.

Apparently his group decides on major story elements and ensures all films, TV shows, books, comics, etc. correlate properly.

See http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucasfilm_Story_Group

 

I'd be curious to find out how much of the story of TLJ was specifically Rian Johnson's doing, how much came from that Story Group and how much collaboration there was in-between during the writing.

It seems incredibly unlikely that Johnson did his own thing, fully unconstrained by anyone.

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1 hour ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Kathleen Kennedy has no need to be hands-on in shaping the story.

Disney has an entire Star Wars Story Departement for that, led by Pablo Hidalgo.

Apparently his group decides on major story elements and ensures all films, TV shows, books, comics, etc. correlate properly.

See http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucasfilm_Story_Group

 

I'd be curious to find out how much of the story of TLJ was specifically Rian Johnson's doing, how much came from that Story Group and how much collaboration there was in-between during the writing.

It seems incredibly unlikely that Johnson did his own thing, fully unconstrained by anyone.

 

If Pablo Hidalgo is making these decisions, Star Wars is in worse shape than I thought.

 

And in any event, my understanding is that the story group comes up with general ideas, but in the case of TLJ at least, RJ was given broad control the story and script. At least that's what he's said, what Kennedy has said and what Abrams has said. And frankly, if the story groups were making these decisions, I doubt they would have just trashed large parts of TFA and reset everything. In event, I assure you, Pablo fucking Hidalgo nor anyone on that group are telling RJ or Abrams what to do. At best, they provide feedback. They are way, way, way, way, down the food chain compared to the directors. They call the story group with stuff like "Hey, what else is there beside an X-wing and Y-Wing" or "Does Lando have a brother" or "How old is Yoda". Does anyone really think Pablo Hidalgo tells Rian Johnson "Sorry, we'd prefer you not kill Snoke."

 

I'm just curious...for those people who think that a "story group" made the decisions on TLJ, which parts of the story do you think are them, and which parts are RJ? (keeping in mind RJ wrote the script, and has already claimed most of the story as his own)

 

I just think some of you want to believe there's more of a plan than there really is.

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1 minute ago, Nick1066 said:

I'm just curious...for those people who think that a "story group" made the decisions on TLJ, which parts of the story do you think are them, and which parts are RJ?  

Honestly haven't the faintest clue, but I'd be very curious to find out.

All I know is that the group exists and I assume there must have been discussion between them and Rian Johnson.

 

But I at least believe you as far as that they probably don't really look further than one film ahead.

Most likely during the making of TLJ, they had a faint idea of what would occur in Episode 9, but not more than that.

I don't buy them having much of a "master plan" either.

 

But I do believe some sort of group effort must have taken place.

How could it not?

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3 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

But I do believe some sort of group effort must have taken place.

How could it not?

 

How indeed. But the results on the screen speak for themselves.

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14 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I just think some of you want to believe there's more of a plan than there really is.

 

Nobody would run a multi billion dollar corporation like you imply. If RJ was allowed to make any changes he wanted to the storyline without any consultation or consideration of Ep. IX, then surely Kennedy or some executive under her would be fired. It the end, that's what it is: Business. They want to maximize their profit and to do that they would start with a plan.

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10 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

How indeed. But the results on the screen speak for themselves.

You may strongly believe that TLJ is lacking in the story department. You may even be right.

But how is it possible to determine from the film how much of that can be attributed to any one person or group of persons?

 

To me, the only explanation that makes sense is that the Story Group at the very least must have been aware of the direction RJ was going.

And apparently there were no major objections, as otherwise Kathleen Kennedy would surely have been notified and put her foot down.

 

The only explanation I can think of is that multiple people involved must have agreed on what they were doing.

My conclusion is that, for better or worse, TLJ is what it was intended to be by "the powers that be".

Which means that several of the perceived errors with it were not by accident.

It may therefore even have been intended to be divisive.

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11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Nobody would run a multi billion dollar corporation like you imply. If RJ was allowed to make any changes he wanted to the storyline without any consultation or consideration of Ep. IX, then surely Kennedy or some executive under her would be fired. It the end, that's what it is: Business.

 

I'm not suggesting Kennedy hasn't approved of what RJ has done. Of course she has, she's the boss.

 

But that's my point. There's no real plan for the story, she's just letting each director do whatever he wants. Oh, I doubt she'd have let RJ, for example, kill Rey or make Chewie a Sith Lord. But she obviously handed him the reigns and let him take the story where he wanted. If she had cohesive, thought out plan for a the entire trilogy (something both her and Abrams specifically said they DON'T HAVE), TLJ wouldn't look like it does.

 

Again, clearly Disney and Kennedy approved and liked what RJ did.  I'm not suggesting otherwise and that's not my point. I'm saying that, unlike for example Marvel and Kevin Feige, they don't have much of a clue as to where this is all going. They're sort of winging it one film at a time. That much is clear.

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20 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Again, clearly Disney and Kennedy approved and liked what RJ did.  I'm not suggesting otherwise and that's not my point. I'm saying that, unlike for example Marvel and Kevin Feige, they don't have much of a clue as to where this is all going. They're sort of winging it one film at a time. That much is clear.

That does sound likely. Especially considering there is no real prior source material to base the story on.

I'm pretty sure the same largely applied to all previous Star Wars films as well.

Going further: Star Wars was inspired by serials and, from what I understand, the story being made up "on the go" is very intrinsic to that format.

So your point there sounds very plausible indeed. Is that a bad thing though?

 

I do believe they're putting a lot of thought in what they're doing.

So whatever they do, it's deliberate and, at least to some extent, well thought-out.

 

Whether their reasoning is in line with yours though, is a different question altogether.

Although I think I understand a lot of the reasoning behind these new films, I myself have no strong feelings on what should and shouldn't happen.

I am just along for the ride and I'll enjoy what good there is and am mostly not too bothered by what isn't.

Even when it is not perfect, it's still entertaining, adventurous, positive and fun, which suits me fine.

 

9 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Fuck spoiler tags, amiright?

I'm confused. I'm not talking about specific story elements of anything, am I?

Or do you find it too much text to scroll through?

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29 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I'm not suggesting Kennedy hasn't approved of what RJ has done. Of course she has, she's the boss.

 

I'm not saying you don't think Kennedy approved the storyline of TLJ. I'm saying that the guys whose job it is to approve the storyline of TLJ (be it Kennedy or some other executive), wouldn't approve anything without making sure it aligned well with Ep. IX. They want to maximize their profit and to do that they would start with a plan.

 

And you really shouldn't take what these people say too literally. They exaggerate for the sake of promoting the current episode.

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12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm not saying you don't think Kennedy approved the storyline of TLJ. I'm saying that the guys whose job it is to approve the storyline of TLJ (be it Kennedy or some other executive), wouldn't approve anything without making sure if aligned well with Ep. IX. They want to maximize their profit and to do that they would start with a plan.

 

And I'm saying there is no real plan for Episode IX. Or any of it. There never has been.

 

Star Wars 8 Director Had Freedom Of No Pre-Planned Story

Quote

 

Is there an overarching plot for where the trilogy goes? You obviously have The Force Awakens as a jumping off point, but is there a place you need to get to, in order to set up J.J. Abrams’ Episode IX?

 

RJ: Not really. That’s what’s been really cool about the storytelling process. There is definitely the idea that we know it is a three-movie arc. We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything.

 

But I was truly able to write this script without bases to tag, and without a big outline on the wall. That meant I could react to what I felt from The Force Awakens, and what I wanted to see. I could make this movie personal. I could also just take these characters where it felt right and most interesting to take them. I think part of the reason the movie feels like it goes to some unexpected places with the characters is that we had that freedom. If it had all just been planned out and written down beforehand, it might have felt a little more calculated, I suppose.

 

New 'Episode IX' Writer Only Proves the Trilogy Wasn't Planned

 

Quote

Star Wars: The Last Jedi director and writer Rian Johnson had almost total creative liberty while working on the movie, explaining that there was not a set narrative arc for the sequel trilogy.

 

And that's just two of about a million articles on this subject. They've been saying since TFA came out that there was no plan. They're almost promoting the fact.  Abrams made a big deal of having no idea of what was going to happen in TLJ until he read RJ's script.  Certainly what happened  Episode IX wasn't considered until Abrams was hired to come on board.  

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But.... does there need to be a grand plan?

Does it matter? I'm failing to see the point.

 

I see two approaches to story writing: planning it all in advance and making things up as you go.

I've got no clue which of the two is better. Way I figure it, either can yield good or bad results.

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Well it only needs a plan if you expect consistency, and for it to make sense. And build on what came before. TLJ ticks none of those boxes (for me).  I frankly think the main Saga films could benefit from a plan, an overriding vision. Then you still have the spin-off films for directors to do their own thing.

 

George Lucas was making it up as he went along as well...but at least in that case, it was more or less one person's vision.

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1 minute ago, Nick1066 said:

Well it only needs a plan if you expect consistency, and for it to make sense. And build on what came before. TLJ ticks none of those boxes (for me).

These movies aren't made that way. They never were and it's unlikely they ever will be.

You may want to change your expectations to be more in line with those serials that Star Wars were inspired by.

Otherwise you'll probably end up perpetually disappointed.

 

6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

George Lucas was making it up as he went along as well...but at least in that case, it was more or less one person's vision.

Definitely things have changed.

But between the original films and the prequels too, there has been questionable consistency as well.

That is nothing new to the series.

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Clickbait, clickbait, everything is clickbait

https://movieweb.com/amp/disney-star-wars-movie-plans-after-solo-standalone-movies/

Popular reporting if ever I saw it. Phrased as speculation, but clearly steering the reader towards a certain way of thinking.

 

They don't even consider the obvious answer: They're heading for the Marvel approach.

With two series and two films between series, you can alternate them so you've got a major "Episode" every year.

Then add one standalone film each year too and you've got two films per year.

Just like with Disney-owned Marvel.

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

There, there, don't you cry no more.

 

:D

 

Beating your head against a wall is definitely tear inducing! Go argue with RJ, it's him you're disagreeing with. Maybe if you're nice he'll tell you the grand plan. Once he clears it with Pablo. ;)

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People are making way too much out of story outlines. Such overriding outlines rarely exist in Hollywood, and even when they do they only contain the barest of the plot’s bones.

 

But what matters in an actual script isn’t those bones. It’s the details: the small planting-and-payoff mechanisms, the narrative structure of each work, the implementation of suspense, tension, action and humor. That doesn’t exist in a story outline. And when you actually film the damn thing, what matters is how those things are visualized.

 

People have just become spoiled after the 2000s where writing and shooting multiple sequels simultaneously was all the rage, following the success of The Lord of the Rings. Star Wars was never that. Of course, you could make an argument that it would have been better off doing that - I sure do. But let’s not delude ourselves about what it is.

 

Its not planned out. At most, they planned it out in the broadest of Strikes: e.g, planning for Rey and Ren to live through to the finale of the trilogy, or something along that line. Nothing more.

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Hold up. Am I getting this right. A new trilogy from these dudes. When I saw it I thought it was a TV series like Clone Wars or Rebels. Wait to go Disney. You know I have to go see these when they come out.

 

By 2040 all Star Wars fans are going to feel like butter spread over too much bread. RIP the franchise. I'll stick around until Episode C.

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I've been kind of "over" Game of Thrones for the last few seasons, but these guys have done enough good things with it that I won't complain about them getting Star Wars.  They know how to stage an exciting sequence, etc.  With the guiding hand of Lucasfilm, they'll either make some good Star Wars or be out on the street like Trank, Trevorrow, and the LEGO Movie guys.  In which case JJ Abrams or Ron Howard or some other middle of the road director will pick up the slack.

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5 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I've been kind of "over" Game of Thrones for the last few seasons, but these guys have done enough good things with it that I won't complain about them getting Star Wars.  They know how to stage an exciting sequence, etc.  With the guiding hand of Lucasfilm, they'll either make some good Star Wars or be out on the street like Trank, Trevorrow, and the LEGO Movie guys.  In which case JJ Abrams or Ron Howard or some other middle of the road director will pick up the slack.

 

The thing is, when they stuck relatively close to the Martin's source material, GOT was outstanding. As they got away from that, the show weakened...considerably. So we know they can do a good job at adaptation, but how they'll do with an original story conceived by them is anyone's guess. So I think the latter seasons of GOT I think are a better guide as to what we'll see than the earlier ones.

 

This is all assuming of course that they do have their own story, and don't simply adapt the grand plan which has been apparently already mapped out by Kathleen Kennedy and Pablo Hildago. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

This is all assuming of course that they do have their own story, and don't simply adapt the grand plan which has been apparently already mapped out by Kathleen Kennedy and Pablo Hildago.

 

Finally, you got things right. :D

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BREAKING NEWS!

 

"It was announced today that Larry David, creator of the smash-hit, Emmy Award-winning television series Curb Your Enthusiasm, will write and produce a new trilogy of Star Wars films. These new films will be separate from both the episodic Skywalker saga, the trilogy being developed by Rian Johnson, and the recently announced series which will be overseen by the creators of Game of Thrones. According to Disney, David's trilogy will be pretty good." 

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4 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

BREAKING NEWS!

 

"It was announced today that Larry David, creator of the smash-hit, Emmy Award-winning television series Curb Your Enthusiasm, will write and produce a new trilogy of Star Wars films. These new films will be separate from both the episodic Skywalker saga, the trilogy being developed by Rian Johnson, and the recently announced series which will be overseen by the creators of Game of Thrones. According to Disney, David's trilogy will be pretty good." 

 

You mean it will be pretty, pretty, pretty good.

 

I wonder who Ted Danson will play,

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