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Here is what directors are saying about John Williams


Lewya

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5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, I'm feeling the same thing now. The problem is that Pub doesn't always express himself as clearly as he thinks, but still he has to be pedantic towards others, and on top of that he just hates to admit being wrong.

 

:D

 

These are criticisms you've leveled against others... perhaps there's a common denominator you're missing that is the real issue?

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7 minutes ago, TGP said:

 

These are criticisms you've leveled against others... perhaps there's a common denominator you're missing that is the real issue?

 

A friendly advice - maybe you should go back and read the conversation instead of interpreting posts out of context, as you often tend to do.

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Well when you rack up this trend of derailing perfectly fine conversations with insane semantic dissection and acrobatics, seemingly just for the sake of being right about something, it's hard to root for you.  

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3 minutes ago, TGP said:

Well when you rack up this trend of derailing perfectly fine conversations with insane semantic dissection and acrobatics, seemingly just for the sake of being right about something, it's hard to root for you.  

 

How did you find that conversation to be perfectly fine towards JTWfan77? You clearly have something against him, or you still haven't read the conversation properly, or you have a hard time with logics. Before you speak your mind, make sure you know what you're talking about.

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10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You clearly have an agenda of bashing me, and you're just looking for an excuse to do it. Quite sad, actually.

 

I don't think that's it. I think what happened was that a perfectly interesting discussion about the use of classical music in films got derailed into bickering about the semantics of "library music". It's like the whole point was missed entirely. And things always get catty when semantics are drawn up, especially here at JWFan. And that's what TGP was calling out.

 

It wasn't anything personal mate! Chin up! :)

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It's funny because I initially got the impression that Jurassic Shark was here solely to crack wise about Zimmer and then play the "u mad?" game when I suggested it was silly.  Now I guess I have the agenda?  It's hard to keep track.  We need Blume to host another Survivor to draw clear lines in the sand. 

 

And you're right KK - pub, for all his occasionally acerbic character, did nothing to change the flow of discussion.  It was the other two who decided to play the definitions game.  But hey, what do I know.  I have an agenda.  

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12 minutes ago, TGP said:

It's funny because I initially got the impression that Jurassic Shark was here solely to crack wise about Zimmer and then play the "u mad?" game when I suggested it was silly.  Now I guess I have the agenda?  It's hard to keep track.  We need Blume to host another Survivor to draw clear lines in the sand. 

 

And you're right KK - pub, for all his occasionally acerbic character, did nothing to change the flow of discussion.  It was the other two who decided to play the definitions game.  But hey, what do I know.  I have an agenda.  

 

It's funny that you claim you don't take my Zimmer bashing personal, when your behaviour suggests otherwise. :D

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...

 

13 minutes ago, TGP said:

It's funny because I initially got the impression that Jurassic Shark was here solely to crack wise about Zimmer and then play the "u mad?" game when I suggested it was silly.  

 

I mean, way to double down, I guess.  

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46 minutes ago, KK said:

 

I don't think that's it. I think what happened was that a perfectly interesting discussion about the use of classical music in films got derailed into bickering about the semantics of "library music". It's like the whole point was missed entirely. And things always get catty when semantics are drawn up, especially here at JWFan. And that's what TGP was calling out.

 

It wasn't anything personal mate! Chin up! :)

 

Well, the conversation derailed when Pub called JWTfan77's use of the term "library music" bullshit, when the use was perfectly fine. That's what I was commenting on. :)

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I wonder if John Williams' concert--oops, library music will ever be used in a film. I can imagine some of it working really well, like the second movement of his trumpet concerto!

 

 

I remember thinking Shutter Island used music pretty well, helping it have that opulent gorging atmosphere.

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It's funny that you claim you don't take my Zimmer bashing personal, when your behaviour suggests otherwise. :D

 

You write wallpaper/library posts. Did I say posts? I meant trash. The sort of nuisance smelly trash that wafts around the room and ruins your day every time it tickles your nose. 

 

Learn to read what people are intending to say instead of nitpicking semantics. Maybe your post quality will move up. 

 

54 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Well, the conversation derailed when Pub called JWTfan77's use of the term "library music" bullshit, when the use was perfectly fine. That's what I was commenting on. :)

 

That's not what he said. 

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11 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

I am. I didn't mean that the music itself "sounds" pretentious, rather that the use of classical music as underscore is pretentious and jarring. 

 

Would you have preferred The Nutcracker instead of Holiday Flight in Home Alone (clearly a case of temp track adaptation)?

 

Or the use of classical music in Babe. Was Jerry's score really that bad?

 

What if Star Wars had been scored with classical music (as Lucas had originally intended)?

 

Would Holst in The Right Stuff and Star Trek VI have been better?

 

 

 

I think Alexcremer's answer would be: it depends on the end result. 

 

And...shockingly, I agree with him. 

 

One of the greatest marriages of music and picture (the end of E.T.) is effectively a director cutting a scene to a pre-existing piece of music, rather than vice versa. For all intents and purposes what Williams wrote wasn't appropriate for the scene. So the director made the scene appropriate for the music.

 

In other words, screw the process: the outcome is what matters. 

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2 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

I think Alexcremer's answer would be: it depends on the end result. 

 

Agreed.

 

11 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I wouldn't mind more classical music in films instead of mediocre scores.

 

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2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Well, the conversation derailed when Pub called JWTfan77's use of the term "library music" bullshit, when the use was perfectly fine. That's what I was commenting on. :)

 

Exactly. At least you and I are on the same page about that.

 

1 hour ago, Blumenkohl said:

One of the greatest marriages of music and picture (the end of E.T.) is effectively a director cutting a scene to a pre-existing piece of music [which music was specifically composed for the film in question, not written for the concert hall or another film altogether], rather than vice versa. For all intents and purposes what Williams wrote wasn't appropriate for the scene. So the director made the scene appropriate for the music.

 

 

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On 09/02/2018 at 9:57 AM, publicist said:

Williams would ave been Lynch's smallest obstacle...

 

george-lucas-star-wars-force-awakens.jpg

 

 

 

To get us all back on track...

I agree with Pub.

Directors being overseen by directors is not a good idea. Spielberg got away with it because he was Lucas' friend.  Kirshner got away with it, because he had had vast experience at directing. Marquand, on the other hand, had neither advantage. Ditto, Lynch.

Because of his inexperience, Lynch would never be allowed to have final cut, and this was his undoing, on DUNE.

Perhaps Lynch recognised (correctly) that no matter who's name was on the director credit, it would always be Lucas' show.

De Laurentis gave Lynch much more freedom that Lucas could/would ever give...except final cut, of course.

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11 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

No. I have no issue with classical music at all. It just does not belong in films as underscore, any more than one film's score belongs in another. The use thereof is akin to library music. 

 

11 hours ago, publicist said:

That is just a bullshit limited understanding of the medium. 

 

@Blumenkohl That is exactly what he said, and quite rudely I might add.

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5 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

 

@Blumenkohl That is exactly what he said, and quite rudely I might add.

 

You dismissed a bunch of people’s work as effectively applied library music, but calling that bullshit crosses the rudeness line!  Come off the high horse! We are all standing in the mud my friend! 

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Did I message @Ridley Scott himself and say "hey Ridders, totally sucky use of music in that film of yours"? So how was I being rude in having an opinion? Publicist said to my face that my opinion was bullshit.

 

I see how it works here. Anyone is welcome to chime in, just as long as one is prepared to tow the party line. Heaven forbid that someone should have an opinion of their own.

 

Just for the record: classical music is fine. Just not as film score. IMHO. That's MY view. Everyone else is entitled to theirs.

 

End of discussion (I hope)

 

 

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No one expects you to tow(sic) the line.  It seems like you do, actually, or else you wouldn't be bothered that someone challenged the rather arguable notion that classical music has no place being used in films.

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Ok, I stand corrected.

 

Toe the line.

 

I said as underscore. No issue if used as diagetic music.

 

Anyway, it's irrelevant, as I'm clearly in the minority here.

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If you throw up your hands because you're in the minority or someone calls the idea bullshit, instead of maybe just going into more detail about why you think it's the case, then it frankly is irrelevant.

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2 minutes ago, TGP said:

If you throw up your hands because you're in the minority or someone calls the idea bullshit, instead of maybe just going into more detail about why you think it's the case, then it frankly is irrelevant.

 

Do you honestly think arguing endlessly over this is going to change anyone's mind?

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His point has some merit. When you choose to put classical music into your movie you are bound to form some associations with elite and pretentious snobbery.

 

But to diss 2001 for having snobby classical music is to diss the Queen of England for wearing snobby clothing. 

 

It’s a snobby movie and the snobby music works. 

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Classical music is always wrong in the film. It always make a feel of a music video. They so much want to be better film makers, besserwissers but it won't work. Those classical pieces has so different stories that in the film it is always so wrong that it makes me cry. Of course Cremmers and sauergrauts like but I always prefer a original score.

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1 minute ago, hornist said:

Classical music is always wrong in the film. It always make a feel of a music video. They so much want to be better film makers, besserwissers but it won't work. Those classical pieces has so different stories that in the film it is always so wrong that it makes me cry. Of course Cremmers and sauergrauts like but I always prefer a original score.

 

Did you watch Django Unchained? How did you respond to Jerry Goldsmith blaring for 5 minutes in that movie?

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  • Interesting discussion
  • Interesting discussion
  • Still interesting discussion
  • Publicist uses justifiably the word "bullshit"
  • Jurassic Shark changes an interesting discussion to bitching about a specific term
  • Publicist continues arguing without being insulting
  • Jurassic Shark starts bashing Publicist
  • Discussion dead

 

Conclusion: @publicist, don't use the word "bullshit" any more, it makes other users angry. :stick:

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