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"2018 is gonna be one for the books", says LLL regarding JW


phbart

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If an extended POA was ever released I hope there is an insert from JW explaining why there are like 5 alternative versions of the beginning of the end credits and why he picked the least interesting one for the OST

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

I believe any score recorded with LA union musicians before sometime in 2005 is affordable to the labels.  Anything from that point or later is much more expensive because the union re-negotiated the contracts that summer.  I believe MM posted somewhere that WOTW was the last JW score that would be affordable because the change happened right after it was recorded.  So Geisha & Munich fans might have to wait until 2025 but Minority Report or The Terminal, etc could come out whenever

What a wonderful coincidence.

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

If an extended POA was ever released I hope there is an insert from JW explaining why there are like 5 alternative versions of the beginning of the end credits and why he picked the least interesting one for the OST

 

I'mt not sure what you're talking about.  The OST's beginning of the End Credits is how he originally conceived and recorded it.  The film adds in a single Insert that wasn't inserted into the OST.  There are no other versions.

 

This recent post I made might help:

 

On 7/27/2018 at 10:57 AM, Jay said:

When the sheet music for Azkaban leaked, we were surprised to learn the film / album version of the end credits (Mischief Managed) is not what Williams intended.  Basically, he wrote the original finale cue ("A New Broomstick") and the first ~3 1/2 minutes of the end credits ("End Credits", which encompasses the original Double Trouble and Past Theme material - the latter of which was also duplicated on the album in the track "A Window To The Past"), which was written to segue to bars 130-end of the "Hedwig's Theme" concert arrangement (the sheet music leak includes both the sheets for just the original end credits with a handwritten note indicating such, AND a version with those bars photocopied in from the Signature Edition of the Hedwig's Theme arrangement, with the bars renumbered to match their new placement).

 

Someone clearly decided they didn't want to use Hedwig's Theme for the end credits again (we don't even know if they recorded it or not), and instead constructed a new end credits medley consisted of bits tracked in from a bunch of cues.  For the album, they followed suite and re-created almost the same medley as the film (two pieces are swapped in order compared to the film version, and Hedwig's Theme appears at the end instead of Pettigrew's Theme).

 

On top of all that, he also rewrote "A New Broomstick"; Originally it was Hedwig's Theme -> Original fanfare -> Hedwig's Theme, but the revised version added in Nimbus 2000 instead of the original music, making it only the second theme from his original score to return in the third score.  Also, he wrote a new Insert to open the end credits in a more exciting way (this is the really cool Double Trouble variation you can only hear in the film and not on the CD).

 

 

So, TL;DR, we've got 4 "versions" of finale & end credits possibiliies

 

As originally written: 

  • 7M11 A New Broomstick -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

As later rewritten:

  • 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

The final film ultimately did: 

  • 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> Peter Pettigrew harpsichord motif (probably tracked from "Reading The Map")

The OST album does: 

  • 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) [with the opening Hedwig's Theme part chopped off] -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> celeste rendition of "Hedwig's Theme" (probably tracked in from somewhere) -> A final celeste note of unknown origin (sounds completely different than the rest of the Hedwig's Theme rendition)
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1 hour ago, Jay said:

The final film ultimately did: 

  • 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight

 

With an alternate ending too. The film credits seem to take Buckbeak's Flight then transition to the ending of Rescuing Sirius. Such a bummer that wasn't carried over to the OST version of Mischief Managed. It was ported over to the LTP presentations too.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Arpy said:

Rescuing Sirius, one cue that deserved to be on the OST and was excised! Now I'm forced to listen to it riddled with SFX on YouTube...

I don't understand why everyone is longing for that cue like a horny dog. It's basically just another (beautiful) rendition of the theme that is already on the OST. There are many other cues that are like nothing else from the rest of the score and they need to be released - much more than Rescuing Sirius.

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1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

I don't understand why everyone is longing for that cue like a horny dog. It's basically just another (beautiful) rendition of the theme that is already on the OST. There are many other cues that are like nothing else from the rest of the score and they need to be released - much more than Rescuing Sirius.

It's not a rehash you dolt! I don't even like that track for the A Window to the Past theme, I like it for everything else - the opening and the build up to AWTTP...

 

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15 hours ago, Arpy said:

Rescuing Sirius, one cue that deserved to be on the OST and was excised! Now I'm forced to listen to it riddled with SFX on YouTube...

 

Yep. The OST contains many baffling decisions, and missing that off is the worst. I don't follow JW's logic where he decides releasing that isn't necessary, but the entire Saving Buckbeak is. (one of the most mind-numbingly boring passages JW's ever written)

 

It also irks me that instead of including one of the several wonderful cues that features the Past theme, JW puts on a very simplistic concert version of the theme. I don't know how many times to repeat this - if I'm buying a score, I expect the starting point to be at least what I heard in the film.

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8 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I don't follow JW's logic where he decides releasing that isn't necessary, but the entire Saving Buckbeak is. (one of the most mind-numbingly boring passages JW's ever written)

 

You're wrong on two counts there!

 

1. "Saving Buckbeak" is not boring at all. You probably just don't "get" it. Or didn't take the effort to try and understand it.

 

2. It's not complete on the OST album, either. The middle section (when Hermione throws those stones through the window) is missing. That music is, incidentally, one of my last Holy Grails. That music is absolutely mind-blowingly good, in a subtle way.

 

Missing part from around 2:24:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I love Saving Buckbeak, very understated with some really nice passages that evoke the time-travel shenanigans well.

 

This is quite unusual way of scoring for JW. Very low key and not in your face, but it's just so fitting and well conceived. Masterful, really.

 

Makes my heart pound faster just listening to it.

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7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Really? I guess I'm just not 'getting' it then.

 

This cue, Dumbledore's Warning, Rescuing Sirius, and Mr. Weasley and Harry talking at the beginning (forgot the name of the cue).... 

 

These are my Holy Grails! These are the cues that make me absolutely crave the complete Prisoner of Azkaban

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On 10/11/2018 at 8:19 AM, John Chambers said:

Apparently the original plan was for 'The Sugarland Express' to be released over the summer but it was nixed by John Williams. MV states on FSM:

 

"Truth be told, the Universal Heritage Collection was supposed to kick off with Sugarland Express, but after careful consideration the project was dropped at the request of the composer. Bummer too, because it was pretty darn awesome!

Perhaps one day...

MV"

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=186&threadID=118900&archive=0

 

 

 

That's interesting. That is a bummer. It is okay to respect the Maestro's request, but why did he request for his score to The Sugarland Express not to be released? Historically, it is an important part of the Maestro's repertoire, being the beginning of the most successful collaboration in the history of cinema. I love the concert piece he recorded for the Speilberg/Williams Collaboration CD, but it would be nice to hear the entire score, especially as it has never been released, not even an initial album. Why is that? I've always been curious by this.

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There's quite a few of Williams' earlier scores that he's asked not to be released. Perhaps he's just not fond of his earlier writing because he hadn't found his feet yet, or doesn't consider them worthy of release. It's a shame he's so strongly against it. I'd hoped he would see the archival and historical benefit to releasing them but, as an artist, he's uncomfortable about it.

 

There was an interesting quote from the Tavis Smiley TFA interview where he alluded to being almost embarrassed about revisiting some of his older themes from the OT in the ST, along the lines of, "what composer wrote this? I've shed all that skin!" It's an interesting quote that perhaps provides insight into his mindset about the evolution of his writing style. 

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I don't really care about his earlier works.

 

Seriously, I have never listened to many of the OST albums from that period even though I own them...

 

Scores like Johnny Goldfarb, How to Steal A Million, Penelope, Bachelor Flat, Valley of the Dolls, etc.

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3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Jane Eyre is great though.

 

That, yes. 

 

I didn't say I listen to none of his earlier works. The Reivers is great too. Not to mention Poseidon, Earthquake, and Towering Inferno. 

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27 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

I have a hard time to listen to Poseidon and Towering Inferno because of the sound quality. 

 

I habe the LLL version of Poseidon and the download version of Towering Inferno. I don't have that problem!

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On 10/13/2018 at 7:16 PM, Josh500 said:

That music is, incidentally, one of my last Holy Grails. That music is absolutely mind-blowingly good, in a subtle way.

Completely agreed, love this part and it is also the unreleased track I want the most!

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On 10/14/2018 at 7:46 AM, JohnnyD said:

 

That's interesting. That is a bummer. It is okay to respect the Maestro's request, but why did he request for his score to The Sugarland Express not to be released? Historically, it is an important part of the Maestro's repertoire, being the beginning of the most successful collaboration in the history of cinema. I love the concert piece he recorded for the Speilberg/Williams Collaboration CD, but it would be nice to hear the entire score, especially as it has never been released, not even an initial album. Why is that? I've always been curious by this.

 

I'm guessing one of the reasons may be that the Maestro feels the music doesn't make for a worthy stand-alone listening experience. I've seen the film. There's not much score. There are some statements of the theme, but repetitive, as though the same track was re-used. There's not much else apart from some brush-stick snare drumming and jaw's harp. They sound like an unruly kid hopped on the instruments and just played them like toys. Funnily enough, that reflects the mindset of the two characters. Mind you, if a score was released I'd still buy it.

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7 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

A huge part of that might also be his attitude towards revisiting the past. We like to rib him or tease sometimes about him being in autopilot on a score here and un-innovative on a score there, but really, when you get down to it, John Williams has shown through his work time and time again that he's dedicated to doing something new, taking a different approach whenever possible. This might not be so much an embarrassment thing, but more just a commitment to staying fresh. "Why go back to something that I've done decades ago when I can focus on something I'm doing now?"

 

Even with the new Star Wars scores, the scoring choices he's made (in density of themes, what pace to set, etc.) has shown a strong ability to adapt to current, younger filmmaker's demands. 

 

I get that his post-original trilogy scores are pretty dull, but even I'd say criticizing his 'modern' works for lack of innovation is ridiculous. Why the heck does he need to keep being ambitious at his age? After all he's given us and all he's done, I'd say he's earned the right to be on autopilot, especially for a franchise as vacuous as Star Wars. Especially since the scores serve their films quite well, they merely make un-engaging albums. 

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2 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

I get that his post-original trilogy scores are pretty dull, but even I'd say criticizing his 'modern' works for lack of innovation is ridiculous. Why the heck does he need to keep being ambitious at his age? After all he's given us and all he's done, I'd say he's earned the right to be on autopilot, especially for a franchise as vacuous as Star Wars. Especially since the scores serve their films quite well, they merely make un-engaging albums. 

 

Overall I would say the prequels are pretty ambitious in their differences from the originals, and feature some very unique writing in general.

 

With these newer ones it sounds like it's more his perogative to instill a sense of youthful yet sage wisdom/gravitas where these events have the danger of being "done there", and thusly non-engaging.

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12 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

I get that his post-original trilogy scores are pretty dull, but even I'd say criticizing his 'modern' works for lack of innovation is ridiculous. Why the heck does he need to keep being ambitious at his age? After all he's given us and all he's done, I'd say he's earned the right to be on autopilot, especially for a franchise as vacuous as Star Wars. Especially since the scores serve their films quite well, they merely make un-engaging albums. 

Well, if he keeps trying new things, he might write something you’ll actually like 😛. (Just a little ribbing from someone who just lately noticed how relatively low JW sits on the totem pole for you!)

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Been changing my mind about that lately the more I listen to Tintin and, to a lesser degree, The BFG.

Every time I whined about how Williams hasn't had any fun anymore post-Lost World, no one tried to point me to those two being up my alley! Everyone just wants the Star Wars crap. 

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Tintin's that kind of movie (and to an extent score), it's fun but you just forget it exists for extended periods.

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35 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

Been changing my mind about that lately the more I listen to Tintin and, to a lesser degree, The BFG.

Every time I whined about how Williams hasn't had any fun anymore post-Lost World, no one tried to point me to those two being up my alley! Everyone just wants the Star Wars crap. 

I want the TLW, AI, MR, WotW and Munich stuff more than any SW stuff!

 

The aforementioned scores prove that he did have a lot of fun post-Lost World.

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