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John Williams sweeps Filmtracks 2017 awards winning all 3 categories!


TheUlyssesian

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1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Mare you talking to me @kaseykockroach?Because I never gave The Post a five. A three point five is my rating.

I was referring to Filmtracks, silly.

 

As for you, Uly, one doesn't come to mind at the moment, but it's amusing how many Williams scores get 5 stars, in comparison to how many Goldsmiths get a comparatively dismissive 3 or 4-stars. 

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I'd give The Force Awakens 3-stars myself (I didn't buy The Last Jedi's OST). One terrific theme for Rey, a fine theme/motif for Kylo Ren...and being so bored by the underscoring in-between that I focused on my delivery work and gradually forgot what I was listening to until one of the two aforementioned themes came up and I realized "Wait a minute, I've been playing music all this time!". 

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6 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

I was referring to Filmtracks, silly.

 

As for you, Uly, one doesn't come to mind at the moment, but it's amusing how many Williams scores get 5 stars, in comparison to how many Goldsmiths get a comparatively dismissive 3 or 4-stars. 

 

There is a simply explanation.

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1 hour ago, gkgyver said:

 

How can a dislike in music be "uninformed"?

Do I have to read along with the sheet music and count the number of sharps and flats?

 

GTFO

 

Not what I said, is it?  Perhaps don't project your insecurities as a shit musician onto the discussion....

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Ahh, Clemensen. If it's not symphonic leitmotif, he's not that interested. Of course he's gushing over John Williams: the composer has written all the archetypal scores which he measures all other scores against, thinking there is an objective way to view these things. I agree with him on many issues, but he practically autistic in his approach and appreciation of film music. (For example, that The Shape of Water has European sensibilities within an American setting is somehow a negative to him, rather than an intentional and elevating aspect of the film/score relationship - especially in a film about outsiders and victims of the American military machine).

 

And he needs to stop conservative criticism of the films themselves, thinly veiled through reporting other people's criticism.

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My assumption is that these "awards" are just pronouncements by a goober with a blog.  Not that I'm above that sort of thing; I'm certainly not.  But why are we giving this attention as though it's an actual thing?

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11 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

I was referring to Filmtracks, silly.

 

As for you, Uly, one doesn't come to mind at the moment, but it's amusing how many Williams scores get 5 stars, in comparison to how many Goldsmiths get a comparatively dismissive 3 or 4-stars. 

But at least the Goldsmith ratings make sense in general. His best scores get 4-5 stars, his medoicre scores get 2-3 stars and his boring scores get 1-2 stars. John Williams has great scores with 2 stars and mediocre scores with 5 stars. It seems much more subjective.

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Yes, such an odd comment. The Shape of Water is a brilliant score, one of my favorites from last year.

 

The most annoying thing about the score, except that it doesn't go anywhere, is the bad whistling. A 5 minute suite would suffice...

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I also made the mistake at first, thinking this was “bigger” than “just” a website’s top ten list.

 

Still, isn’t Filmtracks one of the biggest sites when it comes to soundtracks? Even if it’s a one-man show, I’m sure it has some resonance - even if it’s only with the readers. And if the publisher influences some/a lot of people to gain interest in JW and unreleased scores such as Basketball, I’m all for it.

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2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

The most annoying thing about the score, except that it doesn't go anywhere, is the bad whistling. A 5 minute suite would suffice...

Doesn't go anywhere? The score develops three or four central themes that intermingle and grow organically as the narrative progresses. From the escape sequence onward, Desplat juggles all of them in interesting variations that are often quite beautiful. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Isn't Filmtracks just a fansite/blogger type things. Like, this isn't actually a big deal, right?

Clemmensen's Filmtracks is one of the oldest film music review sites but in essence yes he is just one person choosing the best of 2017 on his site.

 

But here at JWFan every possible award given to Williams by anyone is welcomed with open arms.

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3 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

My assumption is that these "awards" are just pronouncements by a goober with a blog.  Not that I'm above that sort of thing; I'm certainly not.  But why are we giving this attention as though it's an actual thing?

Are any awards fundamentally different?  Does a group of people versus one provide the measure of objective quality?  And, if there is no objective quality to music/art (as many here maintain), the answer to the first two questions is obvious.  And, if there is objective quality (which some here maintain), then awards are largely superfluous, as the music speaks for itself. 

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16 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Which of his 5 star awarded scores do you think NOT deserve 5 stars? 

 

The point where he gave Clones 5 stars. I'd give it a generous 3.

 

5 hours ago, Miz said:

Ahh, Clemensen. If it's not symphonic leitmotif, he's not that interested.

 

Yes, Clemmenson has a very clear bias towards symphonic music, and really turns his nose down at anything more experimental. Newman's early 2000s period was particularly badly received, and Clemmenson ignored the fact that many of those films just didn't need orchestral music, and worked with more quirky material.

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I think it's reasonable to ask a major soundtrack reviewer to treat all types of scores on their own merits, and if you have such disdain for a certain type of score, then... don't review it?

 

The guy who runs MovieMusicUK has none of these issues.

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I think there always will be a large component of subjectivity in a music review that's actually trying to say something informative. Clemmensen at least tries to back his views with reasoning, whether you like his views or not.

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Being one person that runs a site (with help from others), I have stepped away from the award idea and called it my favorites. To me, "awards" sound very formal where a committee of judges decided who is the winner instead of one person.

 

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41 minutes ago, Caliburn said:

Being one person that runs a site (with help from others), I have stepped away from the award idea and called it my favorites. To me, "awards" sound very formal where a committee of judges decided who is the winner instead of one person.

 

 

Same here. I make annual "BEST OF" episodes, but I've always been uncomfortable with using the word 'awards', since it connotes a physical award and a ceremony. This goes for most review sites. None of them are actually awards; they're just 'best of' lists.

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CCs reviews were one of the two major online resources (besides this forum) that helped me expand my budding awareness, knowledge and love for film scores.  I don't always agree with his opinions, but I often do and always find what he has to say to be very interesting.

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6 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

CCs reviews were one of the two major online resources (besides this forum) that helped me expand my budding awareness, knowledge and love for film scores.  I don't always agree with his opinions, but I often do and always find what he has to say to be very interesting.

 

Same here... when I first started to expand my JW collection (shortly before I joined this forum).. I started to hunt and discover the scores with 3 or more '*' ratings on filmtracks.com :yes:

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CC is without question a tremendously deep fount of film score knowledge and insight, and I have learned much from reading him. It doesn't hurt that I share most of his sensibilities on this topic. But I gotta admit I find his narrative style to be a little off-putting. I can't quite explain how, but part of it is his choice of adjectives, which are often... more intense? extreme?... than the situation calls for. His syntax and word choice often make me think of someone overreaching for significance, using overwrought language as a means to get the point across. It's proper English, but a little anachronistic and non-conversational too. Makes me wish sometimes he had an editor.

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7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

The point where he gave Clones 5 stars. I'd give it a generous 3.

 

 

Yes, Clemmenson has a very clear bias towards symphonic music, and really turns his nose down at anything more experimental. Newman's early 2000s period was particularly badly received, and Clemmenson ignored the fact that many of those films just didn't need orchestral music, and worked with more quirky material.

If that's the case, why does he dismiss most of Powell's scores? The odd exception being the HTTYD stuff (which is still better than being indifferent or annoyed at all of them, but it's still strange as many of those scores' merits apply to Powell's other animation works). 

 

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Pretty much all of his other animation scores get 3-stars, including Ferdinand, Horton Hears a Who, the Ice Age works, so on.

Doesn't really bother me as there are far more significant things in this world to get riled up about (like my damn noisy cat), it just seems a bit inconsistent for him to dismiss symphonic scores just because they're for mostly lame animated movies. 

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5 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

If that's the case, why does he dismiss most of Powell's scores? The odd exception being the HTTYD stuff (which is still better than being indifferent or annoyed at all of them, but it's still strange as many of those scores' merits apply to Powell's other animation works). 

 

 

Quality wise HTTYD is so far beyond anything that Powell has ever written that it is kinda outrageous. You have many good to decent scores and have this one towering masterpiece in the midst of it all and nothing prepares you for it. So I think it is the one thing that gets 5 stars and rest all according to his usual standard.

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It's subjective in that regard (I'd rank other scores over the HTTYD music as far as Powell favorites go), but I indeed understand the love for it. It's merely that I feel sorry that he can't get more fun out of the other stuff in favor of the far less inventive blockbuster scores. 

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If I understand CC correctly, I think he admires complexity and ambition in scoring - the denser the tapestry of motifs and themes or the more intricate the orchestration is, he's more appreciative.

 

I think that's a normal trend to expect from someone who's listening to scores day in day out - something truly ambitious would be needed to get your attention. I have become that way in movies - I now find that basic film direction never pleases me anymore. The only direction that gives me satisfaction is something that is very authoritative, very elaborate and very difficult.

 

So it's not a surprise CC favors complexity as accomplishment. So basically Williams' ouevre is a given - I would say largely some of the most complex music written for movies. He loves Shore for that reason too in his middleearth mode and something like HTTYD which is admittedly a more intricate and elaborate score that what you normally hear in animations.

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True, I hadn't considered that aspect, that he probably listens to scores every single day...one can only imagine the Link theme haunting his nightmares. :P

 

I would at least argue (if I was capable of articulating a good debate) that Powell's Dawn of the Dinosaurs is as good as Goldsmith's Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend, and both are better than Giacchino's Jurassic World.

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I will credit CC with aiding me in my initial foray into film scores. I bought a lot of scores based on his recommendations and for a long while our tastes were largely aligned (or perhaps I payed too close attention to his opinions without realising it). However, in the last ten years or so I've found that he doesn't deliver what I seek in score criticism, and that mostly has to do with how a score works in the film itself. He seems uninterested in other aspects of filmmaking, particularly sound design which has an equally important role as the music. I appreciate that's how he operates, but I just can't agree with him most of the time now. He lacks a nuanced understanding of how many modern scoring techniques work in tandem with other film conventions, and as a result he frequently underrates terrific and influential scores. As a composer, I understand the desire to analyse music through the lens of Western classical tradition (melody, harmony, counterpoint etc), but as a film composer I also see the need to separate a film score from those traditions from time to time.

 

Having said all that, I'm genuinely surprised he rated TLJ so high and gave it all these awards, especially considering how much he trashed on the film.

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