Remasters of the First 6 Star Wars Soundtracks now available (Shawn Murphy / Disney Records 2018)

[phbart 609]

Yes, I guess only a few lucky ones have access to the tapes and can tell about their shape. But I bet they'll sound better than the 2016 Sony release because, if Shawn Murphy said it correctly, the tapes they used contains the film mixes. The film mixes were made by the original recording engineer Eric Tomlinson, and his recordings are top notch. John Neal, who remixed SW and ESB albums, is also an excellent engineer (CE3K and 1941 sounds like they were recorded yesterday), but I really don't know what was he thinking when he redid SW and ESB. He practically sucked the life out of the recording, and the reason why RoTJ album sounds significantly better is because it wasn't specifically remixed for the album and they went with the Tomlinson's mixes instead.

[crumbs 14,300]

Well I guess technically the OST masters for the original trilogy were all secondary copies of the original master tapes, and they sound as good as I've ever heard the first 3 scores.

 

If the new remasters are comparable to those, let alone better, then it's a great sign for future expansions. Surely nothing can sound worse than the SEs, of that we're certain.

[1977 1,743]

54 minutes ago, phbart said:

Yes, I guess only a few lucky ones have access to the tapes and can tell about their shape. But I bet they'll sound better than the 2016 Sony release because, if Shawn Murphy said it correctly, the tapes they used contains the film mixes. The film mixes were made by the original recording engineer Eric Tomlinson, and his recordings are top notch. John Neal, who remixed SW and ESB albums, is also an excellent engineer (CE3K and 1941 sounds like they were recorded yesterday), but I really don't know what was he thinking when he redid SW and ESB. He practically sucked the life out of the recording, and the reason why RoTJ album sounds significantly better is because it wasn't specifically remixed for the album and they went with the Tomlinson's mixes instead.

 

The information contained in this post has just made me very much look forward to these new releases (where before I was pretty indifferent).

[phbart 609]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Well I guess technically the OST masters for the original trilogy were all secondary copies of the original master tapes, and they sound as good as I've ever heard the first 3 scores.

 

If the new remasters are comparable to those, let alone better, then it's a great sign for future expansions. Surely nothing can sound worse than the SEs, of that we're certain.

Yes, the SEs are out of any comparison regarding sound quality. A great example of how the Tomlinson original mixes are superior to the Neal remixes is the 93 Anthology. Of course, as that release was done in a "hurry" and with early 1990's technology to handle mostly deteriorationg tapes (specially from ESB), it may trick you to think they don't sound so good. Nevertheless, SW and ESB from that set sounds superior to the lifeless album mixes. Famoused engineer Steve Hoffman, whose 1995 CD of Raiders of the Lost Ark (which was also recorded and mixed by Tomlinson) is still reference quality, also "hates" how the 77 SW album sounds.

 

49 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

The information contained in this post has just made me very much look forward to these new releases (where before I was pretty indifferent).

Regarding the sources used (film mixes), IMHO you can rest easy they'll sound superior to the album mixes. Now, as to how will they sound regarding the condition of the tapes, no one can tell for sure. Unfortunatelly, the original trilogy music elements are not famous for being well stored and preserved over the years.

[crumbs 14,300]

Not to mention they couldn't even be found, as recently as 2016! Makes me wonder if the original tapes were found at all for these scans.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Weren't they located last year?

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

14 hours ago, crumbs said:

Not to mention they couldn't even be found, as recently as 2016! Makes me wonder if the original tapes were found at all for these scans.

 

They'll probably be using the best available 128kbps mp3 transfers.

[crumbs 14,300]

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Weren't they located last year?

 

Where did you hear that? Nothing's been announced officially, just lots of whispers that all the sessions were scanned in high resolution recently, which has now been confirmed by Murphy.

 

But it's unclear exactly what source was used for said scans -- they could be sourced from secondary or tertiary copies of the original film mixes for all we know. "Best available," according to Shawn Murphy.

[phbart 609]

That's right. The only thing Murphy said was that he's using the film mixes, and that's it. Unlike the 2016 release which used the album masters, limited and lacking as they always were.

 

If they're first, second, third generation tapes. If they're multitrack, two track, mono. If the tapes are falling apart... or if they are using the 93 Anthology masters and 97 SE masters to recreate the albums. ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Someone should ask Murphy!

[crumbs 14,300]

What tapes were used to create the Anthology and SE releases? Mike Matessino would know!

 

I remember reading an article that some of the ESB session tapes were disintegrating while going through the scanner, such was their condition! Hopefully just an urban legend or gross exaggeration... 

[John 2,032]

[phbart 609]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

What tapes were used to create the Anthology and SE releases? Mike Matessino would know!

According to Chris Malone:

 

SW 93 Anthology: "For the first time Star Wars utilised the actual film mixes, prepared by Eric Tomlinson, sourced from two-track tapes that contained each take recorded for every cue"

**SW 97 SE: "At this time the original, unedited three-track 35mm magnetic film recordings of Star Wars were located as well as the 16-track master session tapes." "The 16-track tapes were of limited value as the sections that corresponded to the preferential takes were edited out and presumably stored on another set of reels that are now considered misplaced."

 

ESB 93 Anthology: "The Empire Strikes Back was largely mastered from four-track ¼” tape copies comprising the edited film mix as three channels of music with one track being a pilot tone for film synchronisation. These tapes were purportedly in poor condition – probably suffering from lubricant failure therefore making baking an inappropriate treatment – and were not located until near completion of the project." "To make matters worse, the Empire tapes were incomplete and PolyGram was unwilling to locate the original LP album tapes. This necessitated the use of 35mm magnetic film recordings, edited for assimilation with the picture, together with several cues lifted directly from the original PolyGram CD"

ESB 97 SE: "For The Empire Strikes Back, five of the pre-edited 24- track backup rolls were remixed by Brian Risner at the Fox Zanuck Theatre in 1996. Ostensibly, these tapes contained the cues that appeared on the original double LP album." "For all other cues, the digital transfers made by Bill Wolford in 1993 appear to have been utilised."

 

RoTJ 93 Anthology: "The production team made extensive use of two-track tapes containing the edited film mixes despite three-track tapes also being available at the time. A number of cues were also lifted directly from the original PolyGram CD because they could not be located on other available sources."

RoTJ 97 SE: "A three-track reduction of the original preedited Abbey Road tapes was used to prepare the set..."

 

 

**I DO remember reading at FSM that the complete 16 track tape of SW containing the correct takes were located. I'll try to find the post. I believe it was a post about an ebay auction of a set of SW and ESB master tapes...

 

Edit: here it is, from Lukas Kendall himself: "I was at a Star Wars-related convention in L.A. maybe 6-8 years ago where Dan Melson had a booth trying to sell these tapes he got from the John Neal estate—he's been trying to unload them for years. He has every right to own and sell the master tapes, even though he does not own the intellectual property recorded ONTO the tapes. He always asked a fortune and, not surprisingly, people were not interested, seeing as how the tapes are worthless except for the "cool factor." He had a lot of rock stuff too. Of the film music, the tapes are basically dub-downs of little importance except for the Star Wars 2" 16-track masters which contain the edited "selects" Williams and Ken Wannberg chose—I remember when they did the Star Wars Special Edition CDs, they had the 16-track masters, but all of these master takes from the original album had been snipped out! So that's where they went, making those 16-tracks are highly important. Now, the good news: at that Star Wars con was Matthew Wood, a sound editor for Lucasfilm (voice of General Grievous, I think?) and he and I were like, WTF?! I am quite sure he subsequently coordinated to have the 16-tracks digitized at Lucasfilm (in exchange for a tour or something for Melson)...whatever. I think it's all OK, so people should RELAX." (http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=3&threadID=101432&archive=0)

[1977 1,743]

How did Neal get those tapes in the first place? Surely they must belong to Fox, they did pay for the film after all?

 

Neat story in any case. Hope the last couple of sentences really took place.

[Jay 37,283]

He's the dude who remixed Star Wars and Empire (and Raiders) for their OST LPs.

[1977 1,743]

I know who he his, but still don't understand how he got his hands on original 1st generation master tapes that belong to a film studio.

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

7 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

I know who he his, but still don't understand how he got his hands on original 1st generation master tapes that belong to a film studio.

 

Grand Theft Audio.

[phbart 609]

Yes. I believe those tapes should've been properly vaulted in a studio archive. Or maybe this was for the better as the studio might not have preserved them properly. Who knows...

[Balahkay 627]

I'm more concerned the about the ROTJ masters (condition and what's missing) than SW/TESB. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

I guess we'll never have the complete original recording of the Jabba the Hut concert arrangement.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess we'll never have the complete original recording of the Jabba the Hut concert arrangement.

That's a thing. I think the current arrangement is nice.

[1977 1,743]

May the Fourth be with us soon. The suspense!

[Smeltington 1,436]

22 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess we'll never have the complete original recording of the Jabba the Hut concert arrangement.

 

I wish they'd accidentally include it on the new RotJ remaster...

[Jay 37,283]

They can only include it if they actually found it

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Wise words... 

[Smeltington 1,436]

The dream is that they find it and accidentally forget to edit it down to recreate the album cut. Please god!!

[rough cut 1,714]

...alongside a concert arrangement of Lando’s Theme on ESB.

[Bilbo 3,709]

On 17/4/2018 at 2:34 AM, Batman's Diet Coke said:

I take it you don't like how the album remasters sound then. I must say you're here sooner than expected.

 

Mare you threatening me Master Jedi?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Mare you threatening me Master Jedi?

Those had to be the worst Jedi ever that fought with him. Kit Fisto, you are better than this!

[Smeltington 1,436]

Mace should have brought Gungans. Gungans no dyin' without a fight! The same could not be said for Mister Fisto.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He should have brought a parachute.

[crumbs 14,300]

I'm looking forward to the spectrogram analysis of these compared to the Sony 2016 release, the 1997 SEs and the 1993 Anthologies!

 

Am I correct in that these releases mark the first time the prequels have been available in high resolution? The 2016 albums were just straight reissues of the existing 44/16 OST masters, as that's the resolution they were originally mastered at, correct?

 

Obviously TPM's sessions have been scanned from scratch but AOTC and ROTS were recorded digitally yeah?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I think you have it wrong... these aren't actually going to be in 192/24. They were scanned in 192/24, but on the CD's they'll still be only 44.1/16, as that is the limit a standard CD can handle. The HiFi release of the OT from 2016 will still be the highest quality resolution available to the general public.

[Holko 9,499]

All 3 of the Prequels and SW are now 5.99 on Amazon UK:

[crumbs 14,300]

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I think you have it wrong... these aren't actually going to be in 192/24. They were scanned in 192/24, but on the CD's they'll still be only 44.1/4, as that is the limit a standard CD can handle. The HiFi release of the OT from 2016 will still be the highest quality resolution available to the general public.

 

Correct, I'm only assuming these will all be made available for high definition download (as the prequels currently aren't, unlike the ST and OT... albeit with the latter using the 2016 scans).

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

14 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Correct, I'm only assuming these will all be made available for high definition download (as the prequels currently aren't, unlike the ST and OT... albeit with the latter using the 2016 scans).

The prequels are available digitally using the 2016 scans. I even bought them. Unless you're talking specifically about HiFi downloads... which I would very much enjoy.

[crumbs 14,300]

Yes, was specifically referring to the prequel scores in 192/24. The highest they've ever been available is 44.1/16 because their OST assemblies were never mastered at a higher resolution (maybe 48/16 but that's it).

 

Presumably both II and III were recorded digitally at 192/24. I'm still not sure if AOTC was a digital (like ROTS) or analogue record (like TPM).

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Why wasn't TPM recorded digitally?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Why wasn't TPM recorded digitally?

 

Digital sound wasn't invented yet.

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Digital recording was invented 20 years earlier.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Everything became super high tech in the year 2000.

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Lucas was probably being too cheap to record it digitally: -Let's use those leftover tapes from the original trilogy. They're only 15 years old.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Slap a THX sticker on it and it'll seem high quality.

[Jay 37,283]

All six Star Wars scores were recorded onto analog tape. 

 

ROTS and AOTC were recorded digitally simultaneously with the tape. I don't know if TPM was as well or not.

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Do you know why they used analog tape?

[Jay 37,283]

What do you mean? 

[Jurassic Shark 12,025]

Just curious, as classical orchestral music has been recorded digitally since the late 70s / early 80s.

[Alan 689]

I don't know but maybe just a preference? Same reason people still shoot on 35mm to this day rather than digital.

[phbart 609]

Again, according to Malone: "[Shawn] Murphy shares similarities with [Eric] Tomlinson in that he also prefers to record orchestral scores in the analog domain. A Studer A80 machine was employed for the prequel scores, running at 15 IPS and encoded with Dolby SR noise reduction. “There’s an argument which says that format really gives you more dynamic range than 16 bit digital, and it certainly gives you better sound quality in the recording if you’re executing it right,” explained Murphy to interviewer Michael Fremer. Eric Tomlinson concurs with Murphy’s choice having discussed it with him during scoring of Revenge of the Sith. “That is a comment which he made and I agree with him. I still prefer Dolby SR.” Murphy also avoids dynamics processing and tends to eschew equalisation of individual microphone feeds."

 

However, I do believe the only thing that was analog there was the recording. All that comes after (mixing, editing, mastering, blablabla) was done digitally.

[Bespin 8,476]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Just curious, as classical orchestral music has been recorded digitally since the late 70s / early 80s.

 

...with much and less success, talking about the quality of the sound... Today when they remaster those early digital recordings... they are happy to discover that an analogue tape sometimes exists too...So when it exists, they generally use the analogue tape instead of the digital recording to do their new remastering.

 

The 2nd set of the Goldberg variation by Glenn Gould (1981) is a good example.  Thank Good, at the time they recorded it digitally, but they also recorded it (for safety!) on an tape...