Remasters of the First 6 Star Wars Soundtracks now available (Shawn Murphy / Disney Records 2018)

[Jay 37,266]

3 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

 

I can tell you definitively that JW had approval over the score for Rogue One, and that cues had to be rewritten on short notice to his approval

 

Well that is the most interesting news I've heard in a long time!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Williams Fired Desplat himself, confirmed

[deleted account 108]

13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Williams Fired Desplat himself, confirmed

Funny, but not true.

 

But JW did have veto power over what Star Wars films were included in the series of live-to-film concerts in NYC last year.

[Drew 590]

25 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

 

I can tell you definitively that JW had approval over the score for Rogue One, and that cues had to be rewritten on short notice to his approval

 

 

How do you know this scenario to be true? The rumor I heard was that JW was somewhat unimpressed with that score when he got a special screening after the completion.

[Jay 37,266]

[Balahkay 627]

14 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

Funny, but not true.

 

But JW did have veto power over what Star Wars films were included in the series of live-to-film concerts in NYC last year.

 

And he didn't want the PT to be included?

[deleted account 108]

16 minutes ago, Drew said:

 

How do you know this scenario to be true? The rumor I heard was that JW was somewhat unimpressed with that score when he got a special screening after the completion.

 

I can't say how I know this to be true without betraying a confidence more than I am comfortable doing, but there are people in this community who can vouch for me that I know what I'm talking about.  JW feels a very proud sense of ownership over the musical legacy of Star Wars and had a vested interest in making sure it met certain standards, at least up until he announced that EP 9 would be his last Star Wars score.

 

 

13 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

 

And he didn't want the PT to be included?

 

As I understand it, the big problem with the PT is that the sheet music for the cues as they were heard in the films doesn't exist, so doing them live to picture would entail a massive amount of prep-work, whereas with the OT, it was basically minor adjustments to the scores as they were written.

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

 

As I understand it, the big problem with the PT is that the sheet music for the cues as they were heard in the films doesn't exist, so doing them live to picture would entail a massive amount of prep-work, whereas with the OT, it was basically minor adjustments to the scores as they were written.

 

 

This makes a lot of sense, with the positively insane amount of editing in 2 and 3 especially.

[Faleel 5,326]

So did TFA.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Fal said:

So did TFA.

 

TFA's music editing is child's play compared to the prequels!

[Faleel 5,326]

Eh, they are about the same. PT does have planned tracking, I'll give you that.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I guess I just don’t find TFA’s as egregious, in film mix especially

[deleted account 108]

1 hour ago, Fal said:

So did TFA.

 

You're not wrong, but, again, as I understand it, they planned ahead for that one in a way that made it less difficult to do live than the prequels for whatever reason.

[Balahkay 627]

ROTJ has a good amount of editing as well... Rancor scene, sail barge, battle of Endor, etc.

[Amer 2,078]

Interesting conversations here....

[MikeH 768]

Listening to a bit of Sith. I still get chills from that brief quote of Shmi’s Theme on trumpet during Palpatine’s Teachings. JW absolutely nailed that moment. 

[Arpy 4,145]

It's hard to believe that RotS is 13 years old. The music is still so vivid in my mind that it felt like it was recorded yesterday!

[Faleel 5,326]

6 hours ago, someonefun124 said:

ROTJ has a good amount of editing as well... Rancor scene.

THIS!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

These releases are €8 a piece up here in Ireland. Pity they're flawed.

[Drew 590]

49 minutes ago, MikeH said:

Listening to a bit of Sith. I still get chills from that brief quote of Shmi’s Theme on trumpet during Palpatine’s Teachings. JW absolutely nailed that moment. 

 

That was Shmi's Theme?  You learn something new about this music every day here.

[Faleel 5,326]

I don't know why it would be Shmi's theme.... That scene has nothing to do with her.

[Drew 590]

6 minutes ago, Fal said:

I don't know why it would be Shmi's theme.... That scene has nothing to do with her.

 

The part in D minor has a similar opening phrase to the theme. It may or not be intentional.

 

The scene involves Palpatine talking about cheating death, so the death of Shmi was implied to be on Anakin's mind then? That's my best guess.

[Faleel 5,326]

But that bit doesn't score that part of the scene, well it does in the final film, but it was condensed in the film so that it could start later in the scene:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9NzJwS3dtZEplUDg

[Arpy 4,145]

Is it Shmi's theme solely though? I think of it as more of a theme for Anakin's innocence especially in the way it scores his departure from his mother and leaving his childhood behind to become a Jedi. In Attack of the Clones it returns for his 'Reunion in the Tent' ( ) with Shmi it's a return to his mother and playing against the slaughter that is to come as if to say it's Anakin's last display of innocence before his descent to the Dark Side in the following scene. If it underscores the scene with Anakin and Palpatine, it would make sense that it is Palpatine playing on that same innocence for a malevolent goal in goading him to think about the actions of the Jedi Order.

 

[MikeH 768]

 

48 minutes ago, Fal said:

But that bit doesn't score that part of the scene, well it does in the final film, but it was condensed in the film so that it could start later in the scene:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9NzJwS3dtZEplUDg

 

Hmm, interesting. What did you work with for sync reference? Maybe Williams scored a longer version of the sequence. Several of the hit points don’t feel emotionally quite right in the version you posted...ie: the tremelo strings on the “certain death” line instead of when Anakin gets saber-happy. 

 

My full score has no sync point descriptions, is there a handwritten sketch that does?

[Holko 9,491]

Listened through the OT albums now - the presentations themselves are great. I was very surprised how well that short Jedi album works.

SW sounds pretty good, some cues have a bit more hiss, some more intense stage noise (The Little People Work - how stupid is this title, btw?), and the brass in TIE Fighter Attack is noticeably less bright and popping than what I'm used to.

RotJ sounds fine, too, some tracks hiss much more than others, but it's nowhere near intolerable levels.

Empire is fine half the time, goddamn unlistenable for the other half. It's baffling how it presents so many different creative ways to fuck a release like this up. Physically painful stereo mixing, some very muffled bits (The Rebels Escape Again, Battle in the Snow), reverb like you're in a cathedral (Yoda Appears, Asteroid Field), or just... "slightly off but enough to make you feel something's not right here" mastering.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

It's baffling how it presents so many different creative ways to fuck a release like this up.

 

[Alan 689]

Just been reading the liner notes for Intrada's Jaws release.

 

I'm sure everyone here already knows and I'm sorry if I have missed a mention of this earlier in this topic but on pages 22 - 24 Mike Matessino basically describes exactly the problems that we hear in the new Empire release. That is, that the three-track masters for Jaws were not easy to get a good sounding stereo balance from and that groups of instruments would be grouped into one track with little to no presence in the other two. Heavy reverb and noise reduction had been used on previous Jaws releases to compensate.

 

It's depressing that the right people weren't brought on and the proper work wasn't done to get around the problems but as I listen to Jaws now, it gives me hope that a great sounding complete release is still possible, and is going to happen.

[crumbs 14,287]

It will happen -- just as soon as Disney hire Mike Matessino to do the job properly, because clearly whoever handled Empire on this release didn't even listen to their work.

 

I won't be spending another cent on existing Star Wars scores until he's involved in the release, because clearly he's the only producer capable of getting these releases right!

[1977 1,743]

13 hours ago, elvisjones said:

 

I can tell you definitively that JW had approval over the score for Rogue One, and that cues had to be rewritten on short notice to his approval

 

So if I read that correctly, the final score after the requested revisions were made was approved by Williams?

[crumbs 14,287]

Probably only out of necessity, given the tightness of the deadline.

 

He might well have final approval over the score but he's also actutely aware the film's score can't hold up post production as a whole. At a certain point, "good enough" had to suffice, but it didn't change Williams' opinion of the score overall.

 

Just my interpretation of my things.

[Amer 2,078]

On 5/11/2018 at 5:55 AM, Alan said:

Just been reading the liner notes for Intrada's Jaws release.

 

I'm sure everyone here already knows and I'm sorry if I have missed a mention of this earlier in this topic but on pages 22 - 24 Mike Matessino basically describes exactly the problems that we hear in the new Empire release. That is, that the three-track masters for Jaws were not easy to get a good sounding stereo balance from and that groups of instruments would be grouped into one track with little to no presence in the other two. Heavy reverb and noise reduction had been used on previous Jaws releases to compensate.

 

It's depressing that the right people weren't brought on and the proper work wasn't done to get around the problems but as I listen to Jaws now, it gives me hope that a great sounding complete release is still possible, and is going to happen.

 

Alan I was thinking along similar lines as you did. In fact, I recall that Chris Malone in his terrific analysis [RECORDING THE STAR WARS SAGA] on the RCA editions particularly pointed out why specific tracks in EMPIRE such as Hyperspace was entirely remixed (by  Brian Risner) while others were left alone to reflect Eric Tomlinson's mixes intact. It would now seem to me that perhaps Hyperspace and other remixed cues were rather in not so good condition even at that time and that they had to be remixed again and aligned as much as possible this time around. Infact this is probably what Shawn Murphy was alluding to when I asked him earlier about these upcoming sets and he mentioned that ..." These are the film mixes from the original sources, as best as can be obtained." 

 

EMPIRE was mostly sourced from 2 tracks and 24 track source's thus getting all cues to be phased in a unified alignment must have been a nightmare here.

perhaps timing was an issue here to address these problems but we can hope for better times ahead.

 

 

 

 

[crumbs 14,287]

I wish someone would just tell us once and for the best quality elements are simply damaged beyond repair/degraded, and we should no longer expect improvements in audio quality upon previous releases.

 

Would be ironic if we never get better sounding releases than the SE, despite the substantial improvements in tape scanning technology over the last 20 years, purely because nobody bothered to archive and preserve the master tapes properly.

[Jay 37,266]

I am pretty confident all the master tapes are fine.  I don't think any problems with these remasters were the source elements, but entirely what they did to them.  It just seems like it was a quick job, not a deep and thorough one.  Someday, they'll get worked on properly, I'm sure.

[Marian Schedenig 8,154]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

I am pretty confident all the master tapes are fine.  I don't think any problems with these remasters were the source elements, but entirely what they did to them.

 

If the source elements are fine, we can only hope that whatever they did, they didn't do *to* the source elements. 

[Jay 37,266]

Right, of course, the problem is what they did with the digital transfers of them, I'm sure the actual physical analog tapes are still fine if they ever needed to be transferred again for some reason

[Dean1700 4]

Can anyone tell me what are the BEST releases to get of the Original Trilogy are? I want to get these new releases but I also want to get the versions that are considered to be the best sounding of all the releases.

[mstrox 6,637]

2 minutes ago, Dean1700 said:

Can anyone tell me what are the BEST releases to get of the Original Trilogy are? I want to get these new releases but I also want to get the versions that are considered to be the best sounding of all the releases.

 

If you're just going for best sound overall, regardless of content:

 

The RCA/Sony 1997 Special Edition for Star Wars

The Arista box for Empire

The 2016 remaster of the OST for Jedi.

 

IMO.

[Jay 37,266]

10 minutes ago, Dean1700 said:

Can anyone tell me what are the BEST releases to get of the Original Trilogy are? I want to get these new releases but I also want to get the versions that are considered to be the best sounding of all the releases.

 

Just buy the 1997 2CD sets for each score.  The sound quality may not be consistent but these are incredible scores and you want to hear the entire thing, not shortened versions.

[phbart 609]

4 hours ago, Alan said:

Just been reading the liner notes for Intrada's Jaws release.

 

I'm sure everyone here already knows and I'm sorry if I have missed a mention of this earlier in this topic but on pages 22 - 24 Mike Matessino basically describes exactly the problems that we hear in the new Empire release. That is, that the three-track masters for Jaws were not easy to get a good sounding stereo balance from and that groups of instruments would be grouped into one track with little to no presence in the other two. Heavy reverb and noise reduction had been used on previous Jaws releases to compensate.

 

It's depressing that the right people weren't brought on and the proper work wasn't done to get around the problems but as I listen to Jaws now, it gives me hope that a great sounding complete release is still possible, and is going to happen.

The difference is that Jaws (like many others 70's Universal films) was recorded with a mono sound mix in mind, so the 3 channels tape are not in Left-Centre-Right configuration with the proper instrument separation that can create a true stereo mix, but rather 3 channels with a group of instruments in each one with the intent to create a mono sound mix. That's why it was difficult to achieve a balance with Jaws. Now Jaws 2, even though the film is mono, was recorded in the LCR configuration, so it was much easier to create a true stereo mix. Which also explains why Jaws OST album is a re-recording and Jaws 2 isn't. The interview with MM from 2015 pretty much explains all this very nicely.

 

Neither above was the case of this ESB release. It's just a fucked up work.

[Jay 37,266]

^^ phbart is right!

[Pellaeon 593]

1993 Anthology. It’s got the OST arrangements plus many extra and a few expanded tracks. It has noticeably much better sound quality than the 1997 version, even for a non-audiophile, and it has none of the Special Edition changes. There is a small, negligible amount of music on the 1997 that isn’t on the 1993, but I don’t miss it—short clips, rehash of other tracks, and generic underscoring, by and large.

[Tallguy 3,359]

13 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

There is a small, negligible amount of music on the 1997 that isn’t on the 1993, but I don’t miss it—short clips, rehash of other tracks, and generic underscoring, by and large.

 

Jedi is missing almost all of Jabba's theme and a lot of the development of the Emperor's theme.  But then I've never thought the '97 Jedi was the travesty that many here consider it to be.

 

Star Wars is missing the actual film version of the Main Title.  Some of the other missing pieces are short but a couple of my favorites.  (The droids walking into Luke's garage.  The scenes at Ben's house.)

 

Empire is missing the Space Slug. 

 

OTOH, if you're the kind of person who would really miss these things then you'd own the music already.    The '93 set is an incredibly solid presentation.

[Pellaeon 593]

10 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

[1993 Anthology] Jedi is missing … a lot of the development of the Emperor's theme.

 

Really? A lot?

 

10 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

[1993 Anthology] Star Wars is missing the actual film version of the Main Title.

 

It seems to me it includes the whole thing; just segues into the finale music. Yeah, that’s probably my least favorite thing about it.

[crumbs 14,287]

If they'd just released all 6 fucking soundtracks in 24-track Dolby Atmos, none of this would've been a bloody problem!

[Faleel 5,326]

6 hours ago, MikeH said:

 

 

Hmm, interesting. What did you work with for sync reference?

I think I used the Emperor's theme.

[Tallguy 3,359]

21 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

 

Really? A lot?

 

It seems to me it includes the whole thing; just segues into the finale music. Yeah, that’s probably my least favorite thing about it.

 

A lot:  That might be an impression.  And a twenty year old impression at that.  It might only be a track.  Maybe two.  But the Emperor's theme goes over a slow build up to get to The Emperor (as named on the OST).  I remember being struck by this when I got the '97 set in, well, '97.  Jabba's theme also has a track or two that has a very Casablanca kind of treatment that is missing from the '93.  You're probably right that it's nothing major.

 

The take on the Main Title is different.  The OST, the Film Version, and the take on disc 4 (which does not segue into the End Titles) are all different takes.  The biggest difference is that there's a big gong in the film version.

 

For all the talk that these 2018 mixes use "the film versions", that does not seem to be the case at least with the MT.  It seems they used the album take.  (Someone should certainly correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

Funny thing:  Making my own isolated score I realized that the last note of the MT is the first note of The Imperial Attack.  It's covered by sound effects in the film but they make one track rather easily.  I generally like smaller tracks (give me The Battle of Hoth as four tracks, please) but this presentation is actually kind of neat.

[Faleel 5,326]

Well, we know that the MT is actually comprised of multiple takes edited into one, so it's possible they edited the wrong takes together (or didn't edit them at all!)

And it was the film "mixes" not the film "takes", "assemblies" or "versions"

[Tallguy 3,359]

2 minutes ago, Fal said:

Well, we know that the MT is actually comprised of multiple takes edited into one, so it's possible they edited the wrong takes together (or didn't edit them at all!)

And it was the film "mixes" not the film "takes", "assemblies" or "versions"

 

Right.  I admit that I was ready to be disappointed that they didn't really use the same take as in the film.  That seemed to be an level of detail too far.

 

"It was"?  Did I use the wrong term or are you saying that this 2018 CD was the "mixes".  ("Did you hear that new CD?  I tells ya, it was the bee's knees!  It was the cat's meow!  It was the MIXES!")

[Faleel 5,326]

I am saying that this CD was claimed to be from the film mixes (whether that is actually true...), meaning the mix, where what you were describing is more take selection etc.