What happened to "Music Composed and Conducted by" on soundtrack covers??

[1977 1,743]

Is it because Millennials won't buy anything that contains the words "composed and conducted by" because that's "old people's music", and it's associated with classical music?

 

That's my theory anyway.

[Bespin 8,472]

I think less and less movie composers are able, firstly, to compose a score alone, and secondly, to conduct an orchestra (well, when there is an orchestra).

[Holko 9,491]

But what if they are able to and it still doesn't say it?

[Mr. Who 919]

Not every composer is a conductor... this isn’t anything new. There are many composers who conduct who are crappy conductors so just because someone does it doesn’t mean they’re good. I think they just want to make cover with less text.

 

John Powell conducted Ferdinand but the ost says music by... same goes for Harry Gregson-Williams who usually conducts his scores.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I honestly don't care. If you care you'll know who composed it and there should probably be something about the conductor on the inside cover. I don't know.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

47 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Is it because Millennials won't buy anything that contains the words "composed and conducted by" because that's "old people's music", and it's associated with classical music?

 

That's my theory anyway.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I think less and less movie composers are able, firstly, to compose a score alone, and secondly, to conduct an orchestra (well, when there is an orchestra).

 

[Bespin 8,472]

I'm on fire today.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Because John Williams is too busy admiring Daisy Ridley's abs to bother conducting. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said:

Because John Williams is too busy admiring Daisy Ridley's abs to bother conducting. 

I think you mean Adam Driver's abs.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I said what I meant and meant what I said.

Those abs are faithful 100%.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

And Adams just kinda sit there awkwardly.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

 

Fine, let's talk about Adams!

[Kühni 485]

.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

He's ugly in any color.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Music isnt conducted these days. It's assembled.

[crocodile 7,973]

Well then that's what the covers should say.

 

Karol

[Brundlefly 2,385]

It means as little as the change of the phrase "and the winner is..." to "and the Oscar goes to..." at the Academy Award ceremony.

[James 119]

The composer has all the main credit.

 

This works on a cover:

Avatar: Music composed and conducted by James Horner, performed by the orchestra so-and-so.

 

This no works:

 

How to Train Your Dragon: Music composed by John Powell, conducted by Gavin Greenaway, orchestrated by a third guy,  performed by the orchestra so-and-so, and with extra composition and orchestration by Michael, Anne, Jordan, Peter and Ezekiel..

[Holko 9,491]

So why do the two new SWs have Music by John Williams on them?

[Chewy 2,372]

Most of Desplat scores still have that "Composed and conducted" thing.

[Richard Penna 3,662]

I care more about songtracks claiming to be 'Original Soundtracks' than a score album not crediting its conductor.

 

I understand there's a buzz from reading those words on an album cover if it's your favourite composer, but it can be taken to the extreme. I notice that a lot of press releases and album announcements have loads of spiel about the composer, their background, etc, then right at the end a 'Music composed by xxx' as a kind of 'sign off'. I never understand why that's there apart from people wanting to read those words.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Coming soon

 

Aquaman

"Music" algorithm coded by Junkie XL

[crumbs 14,287]

Both new Star Wars scores and even Lincoln just say 'Music By', even though Williams conducted the majority of them (all in Lincoln's case, I believe). 

 

[Will 2,215]

The Post says "Composed and conducted," though. 

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Coming soon

 

Aquaman

"Music" algorithm coded by Junkie XL

Rupert Gregson-Williams is scoring Aquaman...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

5 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Loud percussion loops with occasional cello solo vs cello solos with occasional loud percussion loops?

[JohnnyD 1,220]

On 3/24/2018 at 4:17 PM, kaseykockroach said:

I said what I meant and meant what I said.

Those abs are faithful 100%.

 

Wow. Beautiful AND strong. She is awesome. Where is that clip from?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

She was lean and fit looking in TFA, but she looked like a brick shithouse in TLJ. To the point where she looked a bit... manly.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Exactly.

[JohnnyD 1,220]

3 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

She was lean and fit looking in TFA, but she looked like a brick shithouse in TLJ. To the point where she looked a bit... manly.

 

Yes to the first point. Uh...no to the second point; not at all.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

There were some shots of her where I thought "fuck, this girl could lift a truck".

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[Drew 590]

The new Star Wars albums don't have the conductor because Williams wasn't the only conductor. And the silly younger generations don't wanna see some William Ross guy on the album, I guess.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On 3/24/2018 at 2:56 PM, JTWfan77 said:

Is it because Millennials won't buy anything that contains the words "composed and conducted by" because that's "old people's music", and it's associated with classical music?

I think they know what they're looking for in terms of music and most of them are missing out. They won't dabble in soundtrack or classical no matter what the label says. They know what they want in terms of, well, whatever people are listening to these days, and that's that. I am glad however that we have young sprigs and older folk here. A nice wide and varied fan group. Thanks JW Fan!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm 33, so am I old or young?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Nearing middle-aged, but you have plenty of life ahead of you!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Definitely past your prime, judging by your many posts concerning your failing health.

[karelm 2,901]

On 3/24/2018 at 12:20 PM, Mr. Who said:

Not every composer is a conductor... this isn’t anything new. There are many composers who conduct who are crappy conductors so just because someone does it doesn’t mean they’re good. I think they just want to make cover with less text.

 

John Powell conducted Ferdinand but the ost says music by... same goes for Harry Gregson-Williams who usually conducts his scores.

 

Another way to put this, anyone can count beats. In about 10 seconds, a performer will know if they should ignore you because you are adding nothing useful to their performance.  Almost all film conducting falls in to this category.  For example, I've seen a session where a very prominent composer cued a player incorrectly.  The player looked directly at the "conductor" (which they interpreted as acknowledgement) and then proceeded to come in at the correct time rather then when cued.  So the music sounded fine and the conductor was waving away.  If this conductor wasn't there at all, the music would have sounded the same...perhaps better.  What the performers are hoping for is some guidance and leadership in terms of how the music should be phrased and interpreted beyond the basic notes and rhythm.  That is where something special and more magical might happen.  It is hard to explain but is more than rhythm and cuing which is the very basic level of conducting. It is knowing when to back off and let the musicians perform without standing in the way (Leonard Bernstein did this frequently in fact there are excellent performances of his "conducting" where he is only shrugging his shoulders because he has made the judgement to stand back and let the musicians perform and anything he does will get in the way).  Similarly, there are moments where there is a fine solo and the conductor might stand down to the soloist and "interfere" when the orchestra joins.  Conducting is really more like directing a film though with an ensemble of performers.  This requires experience to be good at it.  Conductors get that experience because that is their primary focus.  So if you are a composer, sure you can stand in front of an orchestra and wave hands and a great orchestra will still sound great.  But a great conductor will focus on this skill and really be good at it.  It is far smarter for a composer to rely on a specialist conductor if the composer/conductor is just doing the rudimentary level tasks.

 

So for me, I don't care at all if the composer also conducted the soundtrack recording if they aren't especially experienced at it.  Brian Tyler is a horrible conductor (pretty much a pop conductor) doing nothing more than swinging his arms and acting dramatic and the orchestra will ignore him.  So if you see Composed and Conducted by Brian Tyler, what value is that?   I just mention him because I vividly remember seeing how useless his conducting was but don't mean to single him out.  I have also performed in orchestras during conducting workshops where we have conductors of various levels.  Even if we know how the music should sound, if the conductor doesn't have skill, it is noticeable.  We sounded very lackluster with some students on Beethoven Symphony No. 5, the conductor told the students, "No, you must be forceful like this..." and with the very same music we sounded amazing and intense, couldn't stop because of the focused momentum that was lacking from the previous conductor.  The very same notes came to life.

 

In addition to all of this is rehearsal skill is very important.  I think JW is excellent at this.  It is another way of saying you know how to hone and fine tune a performance in the most efficient way.  This is actually a uniquely psychological skill.  For example, some conductors might say "brass, play this section louder" whereas John Williams might say "trumpets, this is your moment".  They are basically saying the same thing but one will sound better...more like a performance.

 

[Mr. Who 919]

8 hours ago, karelm said:

 

Another way to put this, anyone can count beats. In about 10 seconds, a performer will know if they should ignore you because you are adding nothing useful to their performance.  Almost all film conducting falls in to this category.  For example, I've seen a session where a very prominent composer cued a player incorrectly.  The player player looked directly at the "conductor" (which they interpreted as acknowledgement) and then proceeded to come in at the correct time.  So the music sounded fine and the conductor was waving away.  If this conductor wasn't there at all, the music would have sounded the same...perhaps better.  What the performers are hoping for is some guidance and leadership in terms of how the music should be phrased and interpreted beyond the basic notes and rhythm.  That is where something special and more magical might happen.  It is hard to explain but is more than rhythm and cuing which is the very basic level of conducting. It is knowing when to back off and let the musicians perform without standing in the way (Leonard Bernstein did this frequently in fact there are excellent performances of his "conducting" where he is only shrugging his shoulders because he has made the judgement to stand back and let the musicians perform and anything he does will get in the way).  Similarly, there are moments where there is a fine solo and the conductor might stand down to the soloist and "interfere" when the orchestra joins.  Conducting is really more like directing a film though with an ensemble of performers.  This requires experience to be good at it.  Conductors get that experience because that is their primary focus.  So if you are a composer, sure you can stand in front of an orchestra and wave hands and a great orchestra will still sound great.  But a great conductor will focus on this skill and really be good at it.  It is far smarter for a composer to rely on a specialist conductor if the composer/conductor is just doing the rudimentary level tasks.

 

So for me, I don't care at all if the composer also conducted the soundtrack recording if they aren't especially experienced at it.  Brian Tyler is a horrible conductor (pretty much a pop conductor) doing nothing more than swinging his arms and acting dramatic and the orchestra will ignore him.  So if you see Composed and Conducted by Brian Tyler, what value is that?   I just mention him because I vividly remember seeing how useless his conducting was but don't mean to single him out.  I have also performed in orchestras during conducting workshops where we have conductors of various levels.  Even if we know how the music should sound, if the conductor doesn't have skill, it is noticeable.  We sounded very lackluster with some students on Beethoven Symphony No. 5, the conductor told the students, "No, you must be forceful like this..." and with the very same music we sounded amazing and intense, couldn't stop because of the focused momentum that was lacking from the previous conductor.  The very same notes came to life.

 

In addition to all of this is rehearsal skill is very important.  I think JW is excellent at this.  It is another way of saying you know how to hone and fine tune a performance in the most efficient way.  This is actually a uniquely psychological skill.  For example, some conductors might say "brass, play this section louder" whereas John Williams might say "trumpets, this is your moment".  They are basically saying the same thing but one will sound better...more like a performance.

 

This is completely correct. If you look at conductors like Riccardo Mutti or Harnoncourt or Haitink, conducting is their art. Many composers just know the basics and in such a case it might be better to sit in the booth while someone else conducts your music. Being a good composer doesn’t make you a good conductor. It doesn’t mean you don’t know about nuances etc which a composer sitting in the booth will inform the conductor of.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Soon, the credit on soundtrack album covers will have changed to "Sound Designed and Programmed by..."

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Thought this was interesting.

[deleted account 108]

[deleted account 108]

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

That's a really nice cover!