Jay 37,359 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Roger says: Quote Just so you know, Williams isn't particularly interested in having Rare Breed or Story of a Woman released. To which @Thor asked: Quote Roger, what is the source for your information regarding Williams' stance on those scores? Have you heard it directly from Williams himself? STORY OF A WOMAN has been my no. 1 JW wish for a number of years now, ever since I finally saw the film. To which Roger replied: Quote Remember, composers can have any variety reasons for not wanting something out. Horner didn't want Young Guns out, probably not because he had anything against the score, but had a miserable time on it and didn't want to open that one back up. Not sure why Williams isn't interested in these, but he's the boss so we that's that. Thor: Quote Sure. I'm just curious where this comes from -- did you personally ask his management, and then got a response from them (on his behalf)? Did you get a reply from Williams himself? Did you hear it from someone else? It kinda matters since there may any number of 'intervening' factors, e.g. that the management is requested to reply to such queries in general dismissive terms, whereas Williams himself would perhaps have responded differently if he was asked specifically about a project of this type? Stuff like that. Roger: Quote I'm not particularly interested in seeing Intrada put on trial. Another question: Quote Wouldn't the real boss in this case be Universal Pictures, even though I'm sure they defer to his interests out of respect? Roger's reply: Quote Being the boss is not the same as controlling the license. So yes, they defer to Williams. Another question: Quote Roger, just out of curiosity are these the only titles that Mr Williams wishes not to be released, apart from Sugarland Express which I also understand that he has some say over. Roger's reply: Quote That I know of. We couldn't find elements to Plainsman or Screaming Woman so didn't bring them up. Source: http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7754 Ricard, Not Mr. Big and Jurassic Shark 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 *edit* oh wait, they're not releasing it. Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,481 Posted March 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2018 This will not be popular to say that... but I'm 100 % on the side of JW... if he says NO, then we have to respect that. Naïve Old Fart, Richard Penna, The Illustrious Jerry and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt S. 493 Posted March 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2018 Who does this “Williams” guy think he is????? A. A. Ron, Pieter Boelen and Will 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, Matt S. said: Who does this “Williams” guy think he is????? A famous guitarist? If JW doesn't want the original recording of The Rare Breed to be released, why did he allow The City of Prague Philharmonic to record a large amount of the music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: A famous guitarist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,481 Posted March 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: If JW doesn't want the original recording of The Rare Breed to be released, why did he allow The City of Prague Philharmonic to record a large amount of the music? SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! HE DID'NT KNOW! Yavar Moradi, dtw42 and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 And I'm not sure they'd need his permission anyway (though they'd certainly have to pay a royalty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I thought permission was needed when the printed score isn't published, but perhaps they don't need that if transcribing by ear, which often seems to be the case with this orchestra (also when a printed score does exist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Seriously, I think no orchestra in the world really wants to record a JW work without asking his permission first. $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, Matt S. said: Who does this “Williams” guy think he is????? He is your lord and master, and he says what music of his is released, and what is not. He doesn't want THE RARE BREED, THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS, or STORY OF A WOMAN released. As much as I hate to say it...end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Maybe he prefers the Prague re-recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bespin said: Seriously, I think no orchestra in the world really wants to record a JW work without asking his permission first. $$$ 18 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Why not? Which orchestra would not want to record a piece of JW music? After all, in pure monetary terms, he's a "nice little earner". I think that there might be a moral aspect, to this, a line which professional musicians might not wish to cross. As for recording music that JW doesn't want released: if he does not own the rights to this music, then who can stop any orchestra recording it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Richard said: As for recording music that JW doesn't want released: if he does not own the rights to this music, then who can stop any orchestra recording it? Someone must hold the rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Weird that he was okay with Pete 'n' Tillie but not these. Finally Intrada wants to release some Williams and the man himself vetoes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Let's hope they found something more that will be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,828 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 hours ago, JTWfan77 said: Weird that he was okay with Pete 'n' Tillie but not these. Yes, really weird! Sad news about Story of a woman. It was my holy grail out of his unreleased scores too! (by the way, even if it was up to Universal, they seem to want to wipe that film out of the face of the earh since they haven't even released a VHS of it!) As for Screaming Woman: It's logical that they couldn't find the elements since it is said that Williams only wrote the end title 1 minute theme. I guess it would be very easy for just one cue to get lost. Quote We couldn't find elements to Plainsman or Screaming Woman so didn't bring them up. Does that mean that they found elements to EVERYTHING else? Daddy-O, Because they're young, The Secret Ways, etc.? 6 hours ago, Bespin said: Seriously, I think no orchestra in the world really wants to record a JW work without asking his permission first. $$$ SO for every single Williams recording we have from every orchestra in the world (and there are hundreds) they ask Williams or his team? I find it hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 They don't ask for permission, only forgiveness. filmmusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittBash 282 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 That’s too bad I think these scores would indeed be loved by folks like us. Very interesting and unfortunate that they were vitoed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 42 minutes ago, filmmusic said: SO for every single Williams recording we have from every orchestra in the world (and there are hundreds) they ask Williams or his team? I find it hard to believe. In any case, they pay royalties to JW. The asking is perhaps a question of politeness, but I'm sure it's a good way to avoid a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 42 minutes ago, filmmusic said: SO for every single Williams recording we have from every orchestra in the world (and there are hundreds) they ask Williams or his team? I find it hard to believe. No, typically they don't. They do however, have to pay royalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: They don't ask for permission, only forgiveness. They asked, and they got rocks and a swift kick of rejection, in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, filmmusic said: (by the way, even if it was up to Universal, they seem to want to wipe that film out of the face of the earh since they haven't even released a VHS of it!) Some bootlegs pop up every now and then on iOffer or eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,828 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Corellian2019 said: Some bootlegs pop up every now and then on iOffer or eBay I'm sure they all come from that incomplete TV rip that was up in youtube for a limited time (and taken down due to copyright claim by Universal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 The good news: - The music still exists - Intrada cares enough to ask So the answer may be 'no' now, but that doesn't mean it can never change. There is hope yet. Jurassic Shark and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 As I said in that thread, I'm still waiting for elaboration on the source. Does it come from Williams himself? Does it come from 'his people'? Is it a refusal based on that particular title, or more general guidelines for refusals that Williams has given his people (which is something that they often do for interview requests, for example)? Without that knowledge, it's all speculation, and Roger is unwilling to specify. I will not believe Williams has personally boycotted STORY untill I see a direct, verified quote. Quote This will not be popular to say that... but I'm 100 % on the side of JW... if he says NO, then we have to respect that. Sure, I can respect that (if it is indeed true). But it doesn't automatically remove my enthusiasm for the score, or my desire to have it released -- like some magic wand. Williams, thankfully, doesn't own the experience of his own music. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Bloke 115 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Pity about Story of a Woman but as for The Rare Breed I find the Prague Suite is just fine. I have the DVD of A Rare Breed. Music sounds like it's just the one same cue being used over and over again. One major exception: a riff turns up late in the pic which is the Superman riff - and orchestrated in a similar way. Funny to think that Superman's music was originally written for some cows. I wouldn't be surprised if Williams vetoed A Rare Breed release because all the relevant music is already out there in the suite, or he thought it would somehow diminish what he wrote for Superman, or both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 58 minutes ago, That_Bloke said: I wouldn't be surprised if Williams vetoed A Rare Breed release because all the relevant music is already out there in the suite I think this is very unlikely. Why would he care about this? It's more likely that he isn't happy with the score for some reason, or the production, or your Superman theory, or something personal that we have no idea about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Poor Thor. Rambo III and Magic get re-released for 20 seconds of new music, but the stuff that is fully unreleased remains unreleased. But honestly, we all know, there will be a very unfortunate day. And every score which the boss vetoes will be a slight consolation. I don't understand Mr. Williams. I mean, he has to know that it will be released sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 He's a mercurial guy, that Johnny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,828 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Maybe we should start a petition of 1000 people for the release Story of A Woman and it will be presented to Mr. Williams? Honestly, John Goldfarb is out there, and this score isn't? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Maybe next time someone gets an Autograph, they can get something Story of a Woman related autographed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Bloke 115 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Nick1066 said: I think this is very unlikely. Why would he care about this? It's more likely that he isn't happy with the score for some reason, or the production, or your Superman theory, or something personal that we have no idea about. If he created the suite he may feel the suite to be the best representation of what he wrote for the movie. I find it the suite more interesting and entertaining than the music as heard in the film. If you've seen the movie, you'll hear how repetitive the score is. And yes, the playing in the film could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said: The good news: - The music still exists - Intrada cares enough to ask So the answer may be 'no' now, but that doesn't mean it can never change. There is hope yet. Well yeah, unless anything is stipulated in his estate, they could be released after he dies. 1 hour ago, Fal said: Maybe next time someone gets an Autograph, they can get something Story of a Woman related autographed? A notarized letter expressing his wishes that all sessions are released. Cover the page with a Star Wars LP and have him sign at the bottom. Done deal. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Now we know why there weren't really any true rarities on that Lights, Camera...Music release. Williams doesn't want them out there. Next thing he'll be calling us bottlecap collectors... This news makes me feel like my avatar looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 6 hours ago, That_Bloke said: I have the DVD of A Rare Breed. Music sounds like it's just the one same cue being used over and over again. One major exception: a riff turns up late in the pic which is the Superman riff - and orchestrated in a similar way. Funny to think that Superman's music was originally written for some cows. The Superman riff isn't in the suite, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bryant Burnette 654 Posted March 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 29, 2018 5 hours ago, filmmusic said: Maybe we should start a petition of 1000 people for the release Story of A Woman and it will be presented to Mr. Williams? Get Daisy Ridley to present it to him, and it's a done deal. Pieter Boelen, Once, dtw42 and 3 others 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Sad to hear this won’t get a release. But at least we’re getting Star Wars again. And maybe Superman again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 6 hours ago, filmmusic said: Maybe we should start a petition of 1000 people for the release Story of A Woman and it will be presented to Mr. Williams? Honestly, John Goldfarb is out there, and this score isn't? Yes, it sounds weird. But somehow, I doubt Williams had any say, or was even consulted, in the FSM releases of the late 90s and early 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 so what's the point of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,828 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, King Mark said: so what's the point of this thread? Well, it was significant news because up until now we were wondering why old scores of Williams don't get released, and if they have been found etc. Now we know about 2 of them, that he doesn't want them released. Next thing we'll hear that he doesn't want the complete Dracula to be released! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said: Get Daisy Ridley to present it to him, and it's a done deal. Daisy Ridley needs to push for her next project to be the remake of Story of a Woman, score by the Maestro, adapted from his earlier work, giving him the opportunity to revisit it's themes and create new concert suites for them in the process (dedicated to Daisy, of course) and ultimately discover that he would love for all his unreleased vintage scores to be put out there for Daisy, I mean the world (I mean us) to enjoy. Jurassic Shark and Bryant Burnette 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 11 hours ago, Nick1066 said: I think this is very unlikely. Why would he care about this? It's more likely that he isn't happy with the score for some reason, or the production, or your Superman theory, or something personal that we have no idea about. Isn't that reason (all the relevant music being in the suite) the reason why he's vetoed Sugarland? I'm sure it was something to do with him feeling that the re-recordings out there contained what he felt was necessary, And 'Why would he care about this?' is a very odd question regarding a composer who clearly cares deeply about his album presentation. 16 hours ago, Bespin said: This will not be popular to say that... but I'm 100 % on the side of JW... if he says NO, then we have to respect that. Given that a large proportion of people here are probably content creators of some sort, this gets me thinking about if someone asked you to put something really early on the Internet and how you'd feel. I wouldn't want to. But as fans, it's hard to see it from that perspective.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 44 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Given that a large proportion of people here are probably content creators of some sort, this gets me thinking about if someone asked you to put something really early on the Internet and how you'd feel. I wouldn't want to. OTOH, we know how it works in reality... I'll will give an example with Roy Orbison, during if lifetime he always refused to release any of his concerts on albums, legit or bootlegs. ANY. He always said that that we was not happy with the performances and with the quality of the recordings (he was right, BTW). The only concert he authorized was the "Black and White Night Live" recorded with an all-star cast in September 1987 (this is a MUST). Roy Orbison died in december 1988. In 1997 and 1999, is late wife and sons started to release some concerts & bootlegs... now we have so many, we can't count them... That's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 IAOH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O!!! Amer and Smeltington 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jay said: IAOH? What has the Indian Association of Occupational Health got to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Bloke 115 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: The Superman riff isn't in the suite, right? No, but near the end of the suite a bouncy riff turns up for a few bars. It evokes the feeling of the Superman riff but it's not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Oh I thought it was an abbreviation that had eluded me, sorry Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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