Extreme polarisation in modern film reception, aka TLJ didn't suck that badly

[Chen G. 3,943]

48 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Really? I always thought that was a genius move on Lucas' part. It made him seem like he's only one little facet in the course of history. The film treated him as if he's not all that important and it made the universe bigger.

 

I think this point-of-view, while interesting, would hold more water were Ben's death to be completely random, which it isn't. There's clear build-up to it, and some aftermath. Upon my first rewatch I was actually suprised to find that the film called-back to Ben's demise a bit more frequently than I recalled.

 

I really think George Lucas was thinking "well, its a kids' movie, and kids have a low capacity for tragedy, so I'll numb it down with action." Again, just like Walt Disney would do.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

It wouldn't make good cinema for the three principals to sit around on the Falcon saying "Shit. Ben's dead". "Yeah I know, babes". "That just sucks, man".

"Right on, bro. Mind if I do a J?"

You have to move the action on, as quickly as possible.

Also, it serves to remind both the audience, and the characters, that they are still in trouble.

It was a good move, on Lucas' part.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

8 minutes ago, Richard said:

It wouldn't make good cinema for the three principals to sit around on the Falcon saying "Shit. Ben's dead". "Yeah I know, babes". "That just sucks, man".

"Right on, bro. Mind if I do a J?"

You have to move the action on, as quickly as possible.

Also, it serves to remind both the audience, and the characters, that they are still in trouble.

It was a good move, on Lucas' part.

 

It's the LOTR effect. Some people think movies need to depict characters lost in mournful thought after each and every moment of significance. I would never have become a movie fan if that was the norm.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

For "lost in meaningful thought", read

"navel-gazing".

It works well with Bergman. It doesn't work well, with STAR WARS.

[Chen G. 3,943]

13 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

It's the LOTR effect

 

Its not. Its called good drama. The Lord of the Rings didn't invent drama. Why should we gloss over elements of tragedy?

 

Even in Batman Begins, we spend a good five minutes with Bruce wallowing in his grief. That's good drama.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

If I want tragedy, I'll watch KING fucking LEAR. I watch films for entertainment, explosions, and sexy women wearing next to nothing.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Its not. Its called good drama. The Lord of the Rings didn't invent drama. Why should we gloss over elements of tragedy?

 

No but it sure popularised this idea that characters need to linger on and on for ages over significant moments in movies whose biggest focus should be action and movement.

 

My biggest gripe in this area was OOTP when Harry spends the entire book angsting over the death of Cedric, a character I gave no fucks about, but in HBP, I don't remember him even once reflecting on Sirius, and the guy was the damn title character three books ago!

[Chen G. 3,943]

It popularized big blockbusters being profound and dramatic, rather than escapist and jouvenile, yes.

[John 2,032]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It popularized big blockbusters being profound and dramatic, rather than escapist and jouvenile, yes.

 

No, The Godfather did that.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Didn't The Godfather predate the blockbuster era?

 

Anyway, I'll rephrase it: it popularized big genre films being profound and dramatic.

[mstrox 6,647]

Mobster films are a genre

[John 2,032]

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Didn't The Godfather predate the blockbuster era?

 

No? It was, for a time, the highest grossing film ever made. Along with Gone With the Wind and Jaws, it is actually one of the first true "blockbusters".

 

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Mobster films are a genre

 

This.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

15 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It popularized big blockbusters being profound and dramatic, rather than escapist and jouvenile, yes.

 

When everything is profound and dramatic, nothing is profound and dramatic.

[Chen G. 3,943]

We still get plenty of escapist stuff. Just look at Marvel.

 

So, in between more serious works, you can have the occasional palette cleanser, as well...

 

35 minutes ago, John said:

Along with Gone With the Wind and Jaws, it is actually one of the first true "blockbusters".

 

Yeah, but the convention in media studies is to refer to Jaws as the first blockbuster. There were certainly large-scale, high-concept, effects-ridden films with big grosses prior, but they are more of the stepping stones to Jaws (from a commercial standpoint) than they are, in and of themselves, "blockbusters" by the most strict definition.

 

38 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Mobster films are a genre

 

The term is crime drama. And while it is an established genre, the term genre film is used colloquially and more specifically to describe action films, fantasy/science-fiction films and horror movies. Y'know, the kinds of movies that we always bicker should have won Best Picture.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

It popularized big blockbusters being profound and dramatic, rather than escapist and jouvenile, yes.

 

All cinema is escapist. Always has been.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Yeah, but there's escapism and there's escapism.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

3 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Really? I always thought that was a genius move on Lucas' part. It made old Ben seem like he's only one little facet in the course of history. The film treated him as if he's not all that important and it made the universe of Star Wars bigger.

 

 

Absolutely correct, and a very astute observation.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

One of the main drawbacks I find in that film from a dramatic standpoint is the way in which Ben's death is nestled between two action setpieces, so the film doesn't grant the characters and the audience any time to mourn him.

 

Well, Luke is sad afterwards on the Falcon.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

So, in between more serious works, you can have the occasional palette cleanser, as well...

 

Yeah, but the convention in media studies is to refer to Jaws as the first blockbuster. There were certainly large-scale, high-concept, effects-ridden films with big grosses prior, but they are more of the stepping stones to Jaws (from a commercial standpoint) than they are, in and of themselves, "blockbusters" by the most strict definition.

 

The term is crime drama. And while it is an established genre, the term genre film is used colloquially and more specifically to describe action films, fantasy/science-fiction films and horror movies. Y'know, the kinds of movies that we always bicker should have won Best Picture.

 

What are you? Some kinda half-assed film studies professor?

[mstrox 6,647]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

The term is crime drama.

 

No, that's definitely not what I said.

 

Mobster/gangster was probably the primary "genre film" of the early 20th century in America - similar to what westerns became in the mid 20th century, what sci-fi/fantasy became in the late 20th century, and what blockhead superheroes became in the early 21st century.

 

Very few gangster movies, historical or modern, are well made enough to fall into a hoity toity category called "crime drama."

[Chen G. 3,943]

10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Very few gangster movies, historical or modern, are well made enough to fall into a hoity toity category called "crime drama."

 

and The Godfather, which we touched upon, is just that.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Geeeeeeeeeeeez

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

The Godfather is a mobster film.  The French Connection is a crime drama.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Nope. That's a crime thriller. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Yeah, that's real fine fancy analysis you brought here, Chen G. 'Course I don't know what that bastard jurassic shark's gonna do with it. Might eat it I suppose.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Nah, my stomach is full after eating your mama.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Didn't eat a car, did he?

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Nah, my stomach is full after eating your mama.

 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

You're a bit pale, Nick. Get out in the sunshine, it might do you some good.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

How can you still be hungry after eating Katie McGrath and a pteranodon?

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

If you look closer at my avatar, it's actually the shark that gets eaten...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Yeah, but the shark isn't a beautiful British babysitter. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

That's kind of racist against sharks, isn't it?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Aw, sharks ain't got no feelins', they're made of rubber!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

11 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

Yeah, but the shark isn't a beautiful British babysitter. 

 

Was the pteranodon's name... Michael Myers?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Alas, we never got his or her name before the delicious tragedy occurred. 

[Arpy 4,145]

4 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Yeah, but the shark isn't a beautiful British babysitter. 

Irish babysitter. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

But dinosaurs don't eat leprechauns! 

[Score 770]

21 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Nah, my stomach is full after eating your mama.

 

 

A clever reference to the first Poe/Hux scene in TLJ, I suppose! I hope this line will open Episode IX.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]