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Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya

Extreme polarisation in modern film reception, aka TLJ didn't suck that badly

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43 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

If it didn't meet their expectations, it's a complete write-off and must be publicly lynched and shamed forever.

 

There' my secret: I barely have any expectetions from any movie except for it to entertain me in some way and keep my attention; if it's an adaptation, represent the source material I already know and love fairly; if it's a sequel, add to the characters and continue the story in an OK way. 

 

Sometimes they can't even fulfill this, like with the last 3 Potter films, or Pirates 5 (maybe even 4), but most of the time, I have fun except if it's really bad (AotC) or just not my cup of tea at all (Fifth Element).

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Its ridiculous sometimes. 

The things "fans" complain about.

 

That's because when fans see a something that doesn't correspond with their understanding or viewpoint, they get disappointed. Star Wars let me down a long time ago with ROTJ so I probably looked at TLJ with different eyes.

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I think the issue is with the reception of fans, which are more obsessed about the inner workings of the universe, than with the narrative. What they don’t understand is that the universe exists only to serve the narrative, not the other way around.

 

But, it should be said, the other side's response is at times overreaching, as well. I've seen many people claim that this film is like Empire Strikes Back in that the immediate critical response was lesser than what it gained over time, as to say that The Last Jedi is great, and only hurt by the critics' lack of perspective. It really isn't: it lacks restraint in its pacing, its narrative format and its characters.

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I do often feel out of kilter with everybody else when I come out of the cinema holding the opinion that the film I've just watched was "okay" or "quite good". There does seem to be a pressure to either ignore its faults (and every film has faults) and adore it unquestioningly, or focus only on its faults and kick it while it's down.

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As many people have already analysed, The Last Jedi has actual flaws and traits fans unjustifiedly bash it for. It's quite easy to figure out what is objectively a problem and what fans just don't like/hate.

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It doesn't suck at all.  Great movie; one of the best in the series.  People are just weird and can't let go of their own shit.  (I should know!  I can't let go of it when it comes to Star Trek: Discovery, which is terrible and is only about half as good as the animated series.  And don't get me started on Spectre, which is truly shite.)

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1 hour ago, dtw42 said:

I do often feel out of kilter with everybody else when I come out of the cinema holding the opinion that the film I've just watched was "okay" or "quite good". There does seem to be a pressure to either ignore its faults (and every film has faults) and adore it unquestioningly, or focus only on its faults and kick it while it's down.

 

This is about where I stand, only expressed more succinctly.

 

22 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said:

And don't get me started on Spectre, which is truly shite.)

 

But... is it really? SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry.

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1 minute ago, Margo Channing said:

SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry.

 

Mine was a similar experience with An Unexpected Journey.

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Its a terribly flawed film featuring one of the worst performances by a lead role. 

Its poorly directed yet the director  exceeded his abilities.  

The script problems are glaring.

 

Yet the 2nd half is unbelievably entertaining and dark.  

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51 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

(...) Its poorly directed yet the director  exceeded his abilities. (...)

 

And don't start to count all the bad match cuts... you'll pass the rest of your life doing it !

 

I never saw as many in a recent movie.

 

One of my favourite is the self-moving bag pack, when Finn tries to escape at the beginning of the movie. 

 

Résultats de recherche d'images pour « the force is strong with this one »

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I think it is perfectly justifiable to hold certain sagas to higher standards than typical movies  TLJ, if compared to the Marvel movies, Transformers, etc, is just fine.  But if it is held to the something approaching the quality of the original trilogy, it falls flat (and seems to miss the point of that saga, but that would be a digression).  

 

It is the same with KOTCS, for an Indiana Jones movie, it sucks; for a typical action-adventure movie of the last 10 years, it is fine.  

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I for one enjoyed it.  Personally I'm sick of people bitching to me how "terrible" the movie is and that made them stop buying Star Wars merchandise and what not. Even as far as saying it "ruined their childhood". I mean seriously over one movie?  

I got to the point that I warned people on Facebook if they bitch and rant how bad the movie is to me or on posts then I'll unfriend them. It was the only warning I will give.  I'm just done with all the negative bullshit around this movie.

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Truth be told, I'm getting burned out on hyping up a movie years before it comes out, in that the internet has to keep up with every single facet of production until release date. Months ahead is sane enough for Solo's score or Fallen Kingdom, but...why do we need to discuss Jurassic World 3 or Star Wars Episode IX or Avengers 17 years before they approach? Who knows what we'll be doing in three years! JWfan may not even be around by then! 

In this case, it often leads to disappointment with a movie being bloated and intensified. Obviously, that doesn't apply to every person that disliked Last Jedi...I don't know, I'm just feeling fatigued as Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest is kicking my ass and I'm tired of every single level taking hours to figure out.

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30 minutes ago, Trent B said:

I for one enjoyed it.  Personally I'm sick of people bitching to me how "terrible" the movie is and that made them stop buying Star Wars merchandise and what not. Even as far as saying it "ruined their childhood". I mean seriously over one movie?  

I got to the point that I warned people on Facebook if they bitch and rant how bad the movie is to me or on posts then I'll unfriend them. It was the only warning I will give.  I'm just done with all the negative bullshit around this movie.

 

43 minutes ago, crocodile said:

The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things.

 

Karol

Out of curiosity, did the two of you enjoy KOTCS?  I see an exact parallel between TLJ and the original saga and KOTCS and the IJ trilogy.  Except, of course, I doubt anyone is unfriending anyone over KOTCS.  

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10 minutes ago, Tom said:

Out of curiosity, did the two of you enjoy KOTCS?  I see an exact parallel between TLJ and the original saga and KOTCS and the IJ trilogy.  Except, of course, I doubt anyone is unfriending anyone over KOTCS.  

Personally I find TLJ vastly better than KotCS.

They're not even in the same ballpark.

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3 hours ago, crocodile said:

The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things.

 

Karol

Star Wars and TESB are both exceptional films

3 hours ago, Tom said:

I think it is perfectly justifiable to hold certain sagas to higher standards than typical movies  TLJ, if compared to the Marvel movies, Transformers, etc, is just fine.  But if it is held to the something approaching the quality of the original trilogy, it falls flat (and seems to miss the point of that saga, but that would be a digression).  

 

It is the same with KOTCS, for an Indiana Jones movie, it sucks; for a typical action-adventure movie of the last 10 years, it is fine.  

You present a very flawed argument. Ridiculous in fact by lumping Marvel and Transformer  films-together. They are in no way alike other than most limely those are not films you enjoy.

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28 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Star Wars and TESB are both exceptional films

 

Empire Strikes Back is.

 

Star Wars is a bit too trapped in its time (case in point: the 70s wierdness that is the cantina) and its core demographic: look at the way dramatic beats such as Ben's death are watered down by the way in which they are nestled into the action material.

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10 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

But... is it really? SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry.

 

Nah, of course it's not shite.  Too many things about it work.  But my personal feeling for it is that it's shite, and I feel the need to attack it from time to time.

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33 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Sorry man you are clueless if you dont understand how great a film Star Wars is. Do you even realise what a game changer it was?

That has nothing to do with it being good or bad.

 

Karol

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14 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

It's so weird, I only got to see the TLJ this week, and after reading all the backlash it received, some very ferocious and passionate polarising reception, I was prepared for an unmitigated disaster.

 

But then I watched it... and it wasn't really that bad.

 

Sure it wasn't a masterpiece either. It's just a space opera movie for kids afterall. I recognise its flaws and weaknesses, sure, but fans seem to have amplified those flaws and weaknesses into reasons to blast the whole film away. As if it has absolutely no merit whatsoever.

 

If you only saw it this week, you have little invested in Star Wars. And from what I've seen, the more people love Star Was in general the less they like TLJ.  Casual viewers really don't care about the characters and could enjoy TLJ on its own merits as a simple space fantasy.

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Star Wars is a bit too trapped in its time (case in point: the 70s wierdness that is the cantina) and its core demographic: look at the way dramatic beats such as Ben's death are watered down by the way in which they are nestled into the action material.

 

You're back to your shite opinions. And you were doing so well for a while. Let's not take a step back Chen G. You don't want people to confuse you with @Jurassic Shark

 

Stars Wars, like a Changeling, is timeless.

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1 minute ago, crocodile said:

That has nothing to do with it being good or bad.

 

Karol

Rarely does a poor film become a game changer. But Star Wars is unversally considered a fine film. Sure some here dont but there is-no accounting for good taste 

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1 hour ago, JoeinAR said:

Do you even realise what a game changer it was?

 

I think one can appreciate a film's impact on the industry, while still disliking the film itself.

 

That's not to say that I dislike Star Wars. But I can't get into that film the way I can Empire Strikes Back.

 

You need to keep in mind that Star Wars isn't a big deal around here. I never saw these until I was an adult.

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5 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

One of the very first ones anyway (it will be definitely the first major US big budget production). And the digital projection started getting huge around that time.

 

Karol

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3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

One of the very first ones anyway

 

Its not the first, but certainly the biggest film at the time to have done so. Very important milestone, indeed.

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26 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

If you only saw it this week, you have little invested in Star Wars. And from what I've seen, the more people love Star Was in general the less they like TLJ.  Casual viewers really don't care about the characters and could enjoy TLJ on its own merits as a simple space fantasy.

I like Star Wars enough to read most of the recent tie in books too.

I also quite like The Last Jedi. I also never really invested much effort in various theories.

The only one I cared about was Rey's parents, which thankfully played out exactly as I thought it should.

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