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Extreme polarisation in modern film reception, aka TLJ didn't suck that badly

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54 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

You're back to your shite opinions. And you were doing so well for a while. Let's not take a step back Chen G. You don't want people to confuse you with 

 

Stars Wars, like a Changeling, is timeless.

 

Having a bad day? You should anyway get your facts straight before dealing out shit like this. I don't share Chen's negetive view on the original SW.

 

43 minutes ago, crocodile said:

It was the first feature film shot digitally. In cinema history this is huge.

 

Karol

 

Wasn't TPM shot mostly digitally?

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7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I don't share Chen's negetive view on the original SW.

 

Negative? Who said anything negative?! I like it. I'm just not enamored with it.

 

The acting in it ain't that great, either. I don't care for the sassy rapport between Han and Leia: "Not this ship, sister!"

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Having a bad day? You should anyway get your facts straight before dealing out shit like this. I don't share Chen's negetive view on the original SW.

 

 

Wasn't TPM shot mostly digitally?

No, only a couple of scenes. As a test. The rest was shot on 35mm.

 

Karol

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5 hours ago, crocodile said:

The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things.

 

Karol

TESB is THAT good. The rest is not.

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29 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Wasn't TPM shot mostly digitally?

 

No. Lucas wanted to but the technology wasn't there yet.  Then he went back for the DVD release and changed the colour timing to match the sequels so it looked less like film.

 

Oh, and crikey, I'm just taking the piss with you Jurassic Shark. Did you think you wandered into the snowflake forum? ;)

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1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

Its one of a handful of effectivelly flawless movies, especially given its scope.

 

Yes. Along with the score, which is also damn near perfect. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Its one of a handful of effectivelly flawless movies, especially given its scope.

 

Love it!

a film without an ending is hardly effectively flawless. It also has that glaring revew edit error.

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Like the Alien franchise, Star Was has gotten a lot of mileage out of the first two films, which are flat out classics.  Like Alien, a genre game changer followed by an arguably superior sequel. And then wildly inconsistent quality.

 

There have now now been six Star Wars films since then, which range from almost great, to good, to mediocre, to almost unwatchable. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

a film without an ending is hardly effectively flawless. It also has that glaring revew edit error.

 

I think TESB ending is the best ending of any Star Wars film, and one of the great film endings of all time.

 

I can't count how many times I've watched that scene, and I still get chills. Williams nails it.

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1 hour ago, crocodile said:

It was the first feature film shot digitally. In cinema history this is huge.

 

Karol

being third makes it a game changer. as 3PO says  WONDERFUL

3 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Like the Alien franchise, Star Was has gotten a lot of mileage out of the first two films, which are flat out classics.  Like Alien, a genre game changer followed by an arguably superior sequel. And then wildly inconsistent quality.

 

There have now now been six Star Wars films since then, which range from almost great, to good, to mediocre, to almost unwatchable. 

 

 

 

I think TESB ending is the best ending of any Star Wars film, and one of the great film endings of all time.

 

I can't count how many times I've watched that scene, and I still get chills. Williams nails it.

the ending of TESB is ROTJ

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6 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

a film without an ending is hardly effectively flawless.

 

If anything, that's a plus for this film! I always find it refreshing when a film eschews classic narrative structure, provided it does it effectivelly, as this film does.

 

Besides, as far cliffhangers go, Empire's is quite tame. Luke is rescued, healed and safe, with Leia and the Droids. Its not like it cuts to black when Luke has thrown himself into the abyss.

 

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15 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

And the score to Star Wars is better than the score to TESB. 

 

I don't know. I can't ever bring myself to a rank these things too rigorously. On the one hand, Empire's palette is bigger, with the larger orchestra, the unusual instrumentation (two pianos, added bassoon for boba fett, added winds for the walkers), the synth and the choir; and the themes are great. It also has possibly the closest that any Star Wars score has to an overture, because we are introduced to the Imperial March, the love theme and the Droid motif very early on.

 

On the other hand, its just upward of thirty statements of the Imperial March within a two-hour composition. It can get a bit repetitive, I suppose.

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8 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

If anything, that's a plus for this film! I always find it refreshing when a film eschews classic narrative structure, provided it does it effectivelly, as this film does.

 

Besides, as far cliffhangers go, Empire's is quite tame. Luke is rescued, healed and safe, with Leia and the Droids.

 

Yes!

 

It was perfect...the movie managed to tell a story with a beginning, middle and end, yet still leave us with a sense of awe and wonder about what will happen to these characters next. It's not just a cliffhanger...it's about more than "What's going to happen to Han".  It's about....where are all these heroes going to be swept to? Where is this story going to take them. At the end of Empire, those possibilities feel limitless.

 

ROTJ didn't deliver on that promise, but that's hardly Empire's fault.

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23 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

ROTJ didn't deliver on that promise, but that's hardly Empire's fault.

 

That's actually my most profound issue with the very existence of the prequel trilogy: Return of the Jedi doesn't provide a satisfying conclusion to the two films that immediately precede it, so inevitably it would only feel all the more anticlimactic when preceded by no less that five of those!

 

And, on the flip-side, those films preceding it would (as they do indeed) feel all the more hollow in leading up a conclusion that's so half-baked. I guess now that we have a shot at a new conclusion with Episode IX (if somehow that film can prevent the sequel trilogy from feeling as tacked-on, narratively, as it is), that may balance things out a bit, but as it stands, Star Wars is the most frontloaded franchise ever made, in terms of the overarching story.

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7 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

TESB is THAT good. The rest is not.

But when you compare them to many Spielberg films from the same era they pale in comparison.

 

Karol

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8 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Oh, and crikey, I'm just taking the piss with you Jurassic Shark. Did you think you wandered into the snowflake forum? ;)

 

Well, you're the one who seem to be melting lately... ;)

 

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Negative? Who said anything negative?! I like it. I'm just not enamored with it.

 

The acting in it ain't that great, either. I don't care for the sassy rapport between Han and Leia: "Not this ship, sister!"

 

I might have chosen the wrong word but you catch my drift. ;)

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5 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Not everyone's life revolves around these movies. Some of us have lives outside the cinematic universes, you know? You know how a normal person gets up and goes downstairs and eats breakfast and kisses somebody goodbye and goes to a job and...you know?

 

 

I truly hope that cinema can occasionally relieve you of your burden.

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I recently watched TLJ again after seeing it once on the big screen. It's held up. I'm surprised the Canto Bight scenes happen so early in the movie, I somehow remembered them taking place towards the middle or end. They're by far the worst segments of the movie -- Boyega and the Asian girl add nothing and detract quite a bit. Cut those out and you'd have quite a lean movie that kicke ass in a nunber or scenes. Almost everything from the the throne room to the showdown in the salt planet is stellar... Best bits of Star Wars since possibly ever. That cue when Luke ventures out to meet the big cannon. Whoa. 

 

I honestly don't get the hate this movie has received. It is so much watchable than TFA, which I found unbearably dull on second viewing. But I guess that's the Star Wars fandom, filled with strict adherence to formula and adverse to any risk taking. 

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6 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Not everyone's life revolves around these movies. Some of us have lives outside the cinematic universes, you know? You know how a normal person gets up and goes downstairs and eats breakfast and kisses somebody goodbye and goes to a job and...you know?

 

Tell me about it. I haven't gotten up, gone down stairs, eaten breakfast or kissed anyone goodbye, much less had a job, since I saw Star Wars.  

 

What are things like out there anyway?

  

 

 

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I wouldn't want to dismiss anyone who hated the film by saying they were just adverse to risk-taking. There are probably some people out there like that, but for the majority of people who were dissatisfied it was less the fact that risks and subversions were made and more the individual story decisions. And I say this as someone who really liked the film, even loved it in some places. But I recognize it has some significant flaws, and if there is to be any peace in the fan community we would do well to not generalize too much. 

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I acknowledge that people have a right to voice their opinions, but I have a question for those TLJ-haters:

Have you written and directed a multi-million dollar film called THE LAST JEDI, that made over 1.2 billion dollars at the world box-office?

If you have, then I would be very interested to see it. If you haven't, please do one of two things; either go to film school, and make successful yet lionised films, or shut...your...hole!

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3 minutes ago, Richard said:

I acknowledge that people have a right to voice their opinions, but I have a question for those TLJ-haters:

Have you written and directed a multi-million dollar film called THE LAST JEDI, that made over 1.2 billion dollars at the world box-office?

If you have, then I would be very interested to see it. If you haven't, please do one of two things; either go to film school, and make successful yet lionised films, or shut...your...hole!

I'm sorry, does that mean that we shouldn't have any opinion whatsoever about any work of art, UNLESS we excel in that particular art? :eh:

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32 minutes ago, Richard said:

I acknowledge that people have a right to voice their opinions, but I have a question for those TLJ-haters:

Have you written and directed a multi-million dollar film called THE LAST JEDI, that made over 1.2 billion dollars at the world box-office?

If you have, then I would be very interested to see it. If you haven't, please do one of two things; either go to film school, and make successful yet lionised films, or shut...your...hole!

 

You don't have to be a professional filmmaker/auteur to have the right to criticize other's films. Roger Ebert was never an Oscar-winning director or producer, yet he was one of the most respected film critics.

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3 hours ago, John said:

You don't have to be a professional filmmaker/auteur to have the right to criticize other's films. Roger Ebert was never an Oscar-winning director or producer, yet he was one of the most respected film critics.

 

Problem is, the noisy fanboy (always men) of today is neither. He's a creature trained to feel entitled to his every whim served, going off on extreme tangents with an almost comic ideologic devotion and has seen the light: now he's strong through the existence of 5 million other nincompoops bringing huge companies like Disney to their knees, or at least Bob Iger a lot of headache what to do to make them happy. The results are inevitably boringly safe and given how relatively small that special demographic is, it's sadly a loss for all.

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Rotten Tomatoes audience rankings

 

97% The Empire Strikes Back
96% Star Wars
95%
94% Return of the Jedi
93%
92%
91%
90%
89%
88% The Force Awakens
87% Rogue One
86%
85%
84%
83%
82%
81%
80%
79%
78%
77%
76%
75%
74%
73%
72%
71%
70%
69%
68%
67%
66%
65% Revenge of the Sith
64%
63%
62%
61%
60%
59% The Phantom Menace
58%
57% Attack of the Clones
56%
55%
54%
53%
52%
51% The Battle for Endor
50%
49%
48%
47% The Last Jedi
46%
45%
44% The Ewok Adventure
43%
42%
41%
40%
39%
38% The Clone Wars
37%
36%
35%
34%
33%
32%
31%
30%
29%
28%
27%
26%
25%
24%
23%
22%
21%
20%
19% The Holiday Special

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On 31/3/2018 at 8:21 AM, Margo Channing said:

It's so weird, I only got to see the TLJ this week, and after reading all the backlash it received, some very ferocious and passionate polarising reception, I was prepared for an unmitigated disaster.

 

But then I watched it... and it wasn't really that bad.

 

Sure it wasn't a masterpiece either. It's just a space opera movie for kids afterall. I recognise its flaws and weaknesses, sure, but fans seem to have amplified those flaws and weaknesses into reasons to blast the whole film away. As if it has absolutely no merit whatsoever.

 

I've noticed among online film goers in the last few years that their assessment of films has been simplified to binary reception - it was either a masterpiece or a terrible disaster. They give it either a 10/10 or a 0/10. There's no nuance anymore. If it didn't meet their expectations, it's a complete write-off and must be publicly lynched and shamed forever. The advent of social media perhaps plays a role in this, where any uneducated hick now has a platform to promote their views. 

 

 

I had a very similar experience. I was expecting it to be a complete disaster, based on what I had read before seeing it (not to mention the petition to remove it from canon, which I now find ridicolous). Instead, I liked the movie more than many other entries in the franchise, and I found that the direction the young characters are taking is potentially more interesting than what we have seen in the OT. Many people complained about several subplots that apparently led to nothing. For my personal taste, this was absolutely ok: reality is complex and it happens that things seem to be important at the beginning, just to reveal themselves to be irrelevant after some time. If the plot reflects such complexity, I'm for it, as long as the main story is interesting - I am also a GoT fan, after all. I surely prefer a movie which is a bit redundant, with respect to, say, Ewoks and Gungans. I was a bit disturbed by that Leia scene and a few other things, but none of them were terribly important for the main story. I was much more disturbed by the main point of ROTJ being solved by a complete joke such as the Ewoks beating the Imperial troops on Endor.

 

I also understood certain choices in JW's score that had left me a bit cold when I had listened to it separated from the movie, and liked them a lot in the context, like that "Here They Come" quote, which I found perfect with that scene. 

 

So, I learned a couple of lessons on how to consider online reviews before actually seeing the movies myself!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Again, it is not that the movie sucked per se, it is that it is was (fully avoidable) disappointing SW movie.  Keep in mind we are talk about making a movie with an interesting background mythos, virtually unlimited budget and surrounded by the best production units in the world.  I think it is okay to expect something better than average. 

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7 minutes ago, Tom said:

Again, it is not that the movie sucked per se, it is that it is was (fully avoidable) disappointing SW movie.  Keep in mind we are talk about making a movie with an interesting background mythos, virtually unlimited budget and surrounded by the best production units in the world.  I think it is okay to expect something better than average. 

 

Yes, this is the point: considered in the context of the SW universe, I did not find it disappointing. It could have been better, for sure, but there are other entries in the franchise that I consider much worse, also in the plot. It is ok to expect something better, but frankly, this movie was bashed in an excessive way almost everywhere on the internet. I found the aggressive reaction of many fans to be disproportionate to the flaws of the movie.

 

 

 

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