John 2,032 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 The only Star Wars movies I would call flat-out "hokey" are ROTJ and the prequels. ESB is not hokey, as is TFA, for the most part, perhaps because they are the most "polished" films in the series. Bits and pieces of SW and TLJ can be reasonably described as "hokey", though. Brundlefly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Richard said: Jerry, STAR WARS was THXed, in 1997. I know that 😋! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Not that Jerry, the other Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just now, Richard said: Not that Jerry, the other Jerry Guilty of being innocent of being Jerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Not that one! The other one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Star Wars, followed soon after by The Empire Strikes Back, and then Return of the Jedi. See it again... for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,643 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I think that's the one that started with a tiny TV screen and then the X-wings fly out of it onto the big screen. I saw that trailer before "William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet" and the existence of that trailer almost made that movie bearable. Almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, John said: Bits and pieces of SW and TLJ can be reasonably described as "hokey", though. Yeah, that's a better way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Star Wars hokey?! I guess you guys never watched E.T. or listened to the soundtrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 There's nothing hokey about E.T. John and Muad'Dib 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 In any case, ET is saved by the family drama, the relationship between Elliot with his siblings and his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Saved? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: There's nothing hokey about E.T. I haven't watched that in ages (although I have fond memories of it), but I do vaguely recall it being quite saccharine. I'm not passing judgement - just trying to recall the film. I'll have to rewatch it a couple of times, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Saved? Lol Maybe saved isn't the right word, it's just that I find the family drama stuff so fucking compelling and well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I haven't watched that in ages (although I have fond memories of it), but I do vaguely recall it being quite saccharine. I'm not passing judgement - just trying to recall the film. I'll have to rewatch it a couple of times, first. Sweet yes saccharine no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I'll take your word for it, for now. I really don't recall the film all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,687 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: SW is hockey THANK YOU! 32 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Saved? In every way an extra terrestrial can be saved. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I'll take your word for it, for now. I really don't recall the film all that well. My word is correct yours is ......artifical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 hours ago, John said: The only Star Wars movies I would call flat-out "hokey" are ROTJ and the prequels. ESB is not hokey, as is TFA, for the most part, perhaps because they are the most "polished" films in the series. Bits and pieces of SW and TLJ can be reasonably described as "hokey", though. That's true! Rian Johnson should give me the theatrical cut and I would cut it down. The only tool you need to make TLJ an excellent film are scissors. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: I haven't watched that in ages (although I have fond memories of it), but I do vaguely recall it being quite saccharine. I disagree. E.T. is a wonderful family film with a glowing heart (pun intended) and genuine, earned emotion, with an excellent score to boot. I firmly consider it to be Spielberg's finest film, and one of the greatest of all time. Holko, JoeinAR and Bryant Burnette 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Again, this is all on very, very vague memory on my part, so I can't agree or disagree untill I get around to rewatch the damn thing, preferably a couple of times. 16 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: The only tool you need to make TLJ an excellent film are scissors. You'll also need to add polish to some of the special effects. They looked better in The Force Awakens. And you'll need to go back in time and give the actors of the baddies (Gleeson, Christie, Serkis) to be less deliciously evil. And you'll need to add a death scene for Finn because when Rose intervenes its, its...well, its...uh...dramatically inept. Yes, that's how we'll put it, dramatically inept! And you'll need to find a way to keep the film coherent in spite of cutting it down: how do you get Rose to make an impression on the audience or convey the significance of her locket, if you were to cut her sister's overlong heroic death scene? what do you do to remove Canto Bight and how do you get around it? Fan edits are an uphil battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 The only thing any Star Wars film needs is a pit of fire to throw said films into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Margo Channing said: Star Wars, followed soon after by The Empire Strikes Back, and then Return of the Jedi. See it again... for the first time. If you think you've see the Star Wars trilogy...you haven't. Er... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: I haven't watched that in ages (although I have fond memories of it), but I do vaguely recall it being quite saccharine. The goodbye scene in particular is very melodramatic. Spielberg is known to go overboard at least once per movie. In fact, one of the reasons why certain people don't like Spielberg is because of his sentimentalism. To others three cubes of sugar is still not enough ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I love sentimental cinema, but it has to be a) earned, b) built-up to and c) in-character. Again, I won't be judging E.T on that issue until I've got around to see it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Try being in an absolutely packed-out cinema, on the first weekend of its release. You couldn't move for all the sobbing (a lot of it coming from yours truly ). John and JoeinAR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I saw it just this weekend at a live-to-projection concert in a city near me. Wonderful experience. crocodile and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Chen, I'm unclear on something: will you be delivering an opinion on E.T. first, or will you be watching it again -- preferably a couple of times -- before you do so? I don't think you've spoken to this point yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 None of the sentimentality in E.T. comes across as false. It's as genuine as it comes in films. That is why saccharine is a poor choice of words. E.T. is sweet. The real thing. And John's score, one of his tickets to heaven, is a rare and beautiful work virtually unmatched Pieter Boelen, Holko, John and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I think I've seen ET once in twenty years. It doesn't really need rewatching more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Nick1066 said: In every way an extra terrestrial can be saved. I don't even have a picture of him. He exists now only in the E.T. Adventure at Universal Studios. Oh, wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 The only thing I dislike about ET is Elliott's high pitch squeaky voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 It was nothing like that, penis breath! Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 He disappeared from Toontown after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Remember me, Eddie? When I killed your brother, I talked. Just! Like!! Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 5 hours ago, JoeinAR said: None of the sentimentality in E.T. comes across as false. It's as genuine as it comes in films. That is why saccharine is a poor choice of words. E.T. is sweet. The real thing. And John's score, one of his tickets to heaven, is a rare and beautiful work virtually unmatched Except for the lingering shadow of plagiarism that was settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 A lingering shadow which loomed so... tenuously, that I'd actually completely forgotten all about it till you brought it up again. Yep, E.T.'s music was completely ruined by these revelations, Arpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Quintus said: A lingering shadow which loomed so... tenuously, that I'd actually completely forgotten all about it till you brought it up again. Yep, E.T.'s music was completely ruined by these revelations, Arpy Oh, I absolutely love the music, I bought the expanded set the day it was released, but still in the back of mind is that feeling that perhaps it was plagiarized. It hasn't dampened my feelings towards the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 It literally never occurs to me, because I don't put any stock into the matter. There's a lot of bullshit cases brought to court and settled. Look at the Blurred Lines case for example. It was absolutely ridiculous, but they had to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 It was more of an extremely tenuous straw to catch a ride on the gravy train. Literally every successful movie has similar lawsuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Chen G. said: I love sentimental cinema, but it has to be a) earned, b) built-up to and c) in-character. Again, I won't be judging E.T on that issue until I've got around to see it again. I'm not passing judgement on E.T. or Spielberg's affection for sentimentalism. I'm merely want to point out that some directors are more known for exaggerating emotions than George Lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 George Lucas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Some people accuse the first Star Wars movie for being overly dramatic (hokey). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I wouldn't use those words synonymous. Lucas usually directs like an alien who has seen human behaviour for the first time an hour before the shoot. The result may be hokey or occasionally even inspired but they don't have anything to do with Spielberg re-appropriating corny clichés from old MGM movies for dramatic effect. That's more cunning emotional manipulation - often misguided, as several Amblin films testify - but in some cases, it just works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: Some people accuse the first Star Wars movie for being overly dramatic (hokey). Really? At no point does Luke burst into tears in that film. He does in Empire Strikes Back, but there it works. If anything, Lucas is - in the films he directed - stifling the emotion of his characters. One of the main drawbacks I find in that film from a dramatic standpoint is the way in which Ben's death is nestled between two action setpieces, so the film doesn't grant the characters and the audience any time to mourn him. Its kind of like the way old Disney cartoons (Bambi especially) depicted death: they would immediately cut away to something happy to "drown out" the sadness and not let it linger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Oh fuck... I loved that movie my whole life, but now I realise it sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Sentimentalism in movies has never been an issue for me, especially if it's earned and well measured - in which case I positively enjoy it. I'm a sentimental person, see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: One of the main drawbacks I find in that film from a dramatic standpoint is the way in which Ben's death is nestled between two action setpieces, so the film doesn't grant the characters and the audience any time to mourn him. Really? I always thought that was a genius move on Lucas' part. It made old Ben seem like he's only one little facet in the course of history. The film treated him as if he's not all that important and it made the universe of Star Wars bigger. 2 hours ago, publicist said: I wouldn't use those words synonymous. Lucas usually directs like an alien who has seen human behaviour for the first time an hour before the shoot. The result may be hokey or occasionally even inspired but they don't have anything to do with Spielberg re-appropriating corny clichés from old MGM movies for dramatic effect. That's more cunning emotional manipulation - often misguided, as several Amblin films testify - but in some cases, it just works. True. 2 hours ago, Margo Channing said: Oh fuck... I loved that movie my whole life, but now I realise it sucks! Wow, you're easily swayed, Drax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, Quintus said: Sentimentalism in movies has never been an issue for me, especially if it's earned and well measured - in which case I positively enjoy it. I'm a sentimental person, see. There is no clear-cut sentimentality for me. The Amblin examples from the 80's and 90's i mentioned (as well as old MGM or FOX movies they refer to) often are corny, but sometimes - i.e. in tandem with a pushy Horner cue - they work. I hate the 'Terms of Endearment', 'Steel Magnolias' or 'Fried Green Tomatoes'-kind that presents itself as especially insightful about the human condition but mostly are just cheap plot machinations ('The Notebook' is another egregious example). Nowadays it's even worse: hardly any schmaltz but instead too much solemnity and drab seriousness (especially aesthetically) in film and tv. The last good tear-jerker with a good help from a hard-working score was 'Wolf Totem'. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: Wow, you're easily swayed, Drax. Good lord... I used to think I was quite stubborn, but you sure showed me that I'm not! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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