Has the Star Wars Main Theme been altered?

[tmarps 217]

I have just found a little-known video showing a recent recording of the London Symphony Orchestra playing the Star Wars main theme. It is a recent upload and one that has confused me very much. I'm not sure when this video could've been filmed (during the Solo recording sessions?) or who the conductor is (exposes my lack of knowledge), but if you listen closely between 0:35-0:43 you can hear new little trumpet phrases being played during the "B" melody.  - - - - - I don't like them.

 

 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I think I've heard this theme before...somewhere..

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

@tmarps I'm not going to be picky with this. It's fine by me. Makes it feel like its the prequels. Simple opinion from me.

[Holko 9,499]

Is it for that new compilation album with the horrendous cover?

[Faleel 5,340]

Probably. 

[tmarps 217]

Just now, Holko said:

Is it for that new compilation album with the horrendous cover?

That was done at AirStudios - and I've listened to the main theme on that and it has no alterations

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

It makes the music sound very Star Wars-ish! Ugh! 

[tmarps 217]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Is it for that new compilation album with the horrendous cover?

That was done at AirStudios - and I've listened to the main theme on that and it has no alterations  

 

4 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

@tmarps I'm not going to be picky with this. It's fine by me. Makes it feel like its the prequels. Simple opinion from me.

 

I just don't think it's a necessary alteration - it doesn't add anything? Just distracts the ear that's comfortable with the way that theme's been for 41 years!

[Holko 9,499]

With rerecording after rerecording after rerecording, it'll be so fresh to finally hear the original intended recording mashup again in (hopefully) pristine and gloriously remastered quality!

[tmarps 217]

Just now, Holko said:

With rerecording after rerecording after rerecording, it'll be so fresh to finally hear the original intended recording mashup again in (hopefully) pristine and gloriously remastered quality!

Agreed!

[Faleel 5,340]

I Believe the Prequels recording has those.

[tmarps 217]

4 minutes ago, Fal said:

I Believe the Prequels recording has those.

Could do with the first couple of hits - not the second, louder ones though surely..

[Faleel 5,340]

Okay, I compared all of the Williams recordings for the 8 films (including the early takes on the 97 SE) plus the McNeely recording for Shadows of the Empire. that section seems to vary wildly between each, with fanfares (though not the same exact fanfare in the above recording) in that section or no fanfares.

[tmarps 217]

4 minutes ago, Fal said:

Okay, I compared all of the Williams recordings for the 8 films (including the early takes on the 97 SE) plus the McNeely recording for Shadows of the Empire. that section seems to vary wildly between each, with fanfares (though not the same exact fanfare in the above recording) in that section or no fanfares.

 

Interesting! 

In the "Star Wars Suite" score (JW Original Arrangement) this is all the trumpets do instead of that overbearing business during the sweeping string melody at 0:41. The pitches of the notes in the second and third bar (for non-musos, second and third column ) are the same, but rhythm changes in video above.

[Faleel 5,340]

 

[tmarps 217]

So the little four note line when the melody takes a little break (baa daaa deee dum) used to be soft and legato, but is now stab-y in the video. I see. Also, never before noticed that it used to be played on a horn in 1977 and a trumpet in future recordings.  Great research @Fal

[Faleel 5,340]

And in Take 19-20 there was a little fanfare instead of that upward legato climb from 16-18

TPM, AOTC, and ROTS have more fanfares over the Ba-dee-ba-dum and the fanfare from Take 19-20
Shadows has the fanfare from Take 19-20

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Good news guys, I found out where this is from. It is from Gordy Haab's SWBF2 season 2 DLC recording sessions that took place on March 29. The YouTube channel that posted the video belongs to Peter Moore, who is on the EA board of directors. I don't believe it's actually part of the game, I think they just played it as a warm-up. Gordy posted several pictures on his Facebook page, including this one:

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

It has been altered.

 

Pray they don't alter it any further.

[rough cut 1,714]

Why don’t they do a digital release of Haab’s soundtrack?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I asked him that a few times and he says he really wants his music released but he doesn't know why they won't. Judging by my uploaded videos, people really love the music. I think EA is missing out.

[rough cut 1,714]

It seems part of the JW curse. Giachino alao got a sleeve of it with Rogue One.

 

We get a deluxe release of the Zimmer scores, double disc sets left and right... Zelda and Final Fantasy scores are re-recorded, expanded upon and released time and time again on CD...

 

But record a new Star Wars score - even with the London Symphony Orchestra!! - and it’s bare bones or none at all.

 

Sad, sad, sad.

[Laserschwert 475]

Haab's scores not getting released probably has to do with the music rights. At least back in 2005ish a LucasArts PR rep told me that LucasArts has to license the SW soundtracks each time they use it in a game (and only in the game), because the rights lie elsewhere (is it Sony?), and it's probably the same with EA. So with soundtracks like Haab's Battlefront 1 and 2, which are riddled with statements of Williams' themes, it would be impossible to single those snippets and quotes out and acquire the rights to release them. We got lucky that James Hannigan's HP scores to some of the Harry Potter games got released, but there weren't as many statements of JW's themes in there, so it was easier to edit them out.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Gordy said in a podcast interview a while back that all of the music he writes, including his own original material, has to be sent directly to John Williams for approval. I guess sometimes he sends suggestions to Gordy as well (maybe he should get an 'additional orchestrator' credit!)

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

9 hours ago, Laserschwert said:

Haab's scores not getting released probably has to do with the music rights. At least back in 2005ish a LucasArts PR rep told me that LucasArts has to license the SW soundtracks each time they use it in a game (and only in the game), because the rights lie elsewhere (is it Sony?), and it's probably the same with EA. So with soundtracks like Haab's Battlefront 1 and 2, which are riddled with statements of Williams' themes, it would be impossible to single those snippets and quotes out and acquire the rights to release them. We got lucky that James Hannigan's HP scores to some of the Harry Potter games got released, but there weren't as many statements of JW's themes in there, so it was easier to edit them out.

 

Now the music rights belong to Disney, which also owns LucasArts.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

30 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Now the music rights belong to Disney, which also owns LucasArts.

Well, technically LucasArts doesn't exist anymore as it was disbanded.

[Laserschwert 475]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Now the music rights belong to Disney, which also owns LucasArts.

But they don't own Electronic Arts, so EA still has to license the music.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

0:08-0:14 has always been my favorite part. That twinkly sound with the horns. Fuckin' badass. The ROTJ OST version has extra flourishes. That version's incredible.

[DominicCobb 194]

Speaking of, didn't someone here once breakdown which takes, when combined together, made up the main title of the original film? Anyone remember?

[1977 1,743]

Why does the TFA initial "blast" sound so lightweight compared to the others? Is it orchestration or performance?

 

It sounds like a Pops recording it's so slight. I've gotten used to it over time, but sitting in that darkened theatre in December 2015 it was rather underwhelming.

[Holko 9,499]

In the movie, it somehow seems to be mastered with more punch, so much so that before I really compared it with the OST track, I thought it was a different take.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

3 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Why does the TFA initial "blast" sound so lightweight compared to the others? Is it orchestration or performance?

 

It sounds like a Pops recording it's so slight. I've gotten used to it over time, but sitting in that darkened theatre in December 2015 it was rather underwhelming.

 

It suits the movie.

[crumbs 14,304]

Can the LSO perform the Main Title for Episode IX? Pretty please, JW? 

[rough cut 1,714]

17 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Gordy said in a podcast interview a while back that all of the music he writes, including his own original material, has to be sent directly to John Williams for approval.

 

That sounds crazy. I guess there’s no legal reason to do this, but is done as a courtesy. I cannot for the life of me believe that all SW related has to be approved by JW himself, although this notion has been floating around the forum. If it were true, the man would have time for nothing else!

[Balahkay 627]

Just now, rough cut said:

 

That sounds crazy. I guess there’s no legal reason to do this, but is done as a courtesy. I cannot for the life of me believe that all SW related has to be approved by JW himself, although this notion has been floating around the forum. If it were true, the man would have time for nothing else!

1

 

I don't how true this is either.  Would this apply to trailer music that utilizes his themes? 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

I believe composers have the right to approve or reject the publication of arrangements of their own music.

[karelm 2,903]

On 4/9/2018 at 12:22 PM, tmarps said:

 

Interesting! 

In the "Star Wars Suite" score (JW Original Arrangement) this is all the trumpets do instead of that overbearing business during the sweeping string melody at 0:41. The pitches of the notes in the second and third bar (for non-musos, second and third column ) are the same, but rhythm changes in video above.

 

The Hal Leonard suite is not John Williams's original.  It was edited and altered from the original.  The wind trills at the start are in Hal Leonard but not the score nor film for example. 

36 minutes ago, rough cut said:

 

That sounds crazy. I guess there’s no legal reason to do this, but is done as a courtesy. I cannot for the life of me believe that all SW related has to be approved by JW himself, although this notion has been floating around the forum. If it were true, the man would have time for nothing else!

 

Right.  I don't think it is a requirement, just a courtesy.  He's allowed a review period.  Most likely he doesn't listen to something but if he wants to, there is a window of time he can.  Gordy Haab mentioned this regarding his work on Star Wars Battlefront and said of all the cues and hours of music he wrote, he might have just heard one comment from John Williams about something he wouldn't have done which Gordy disagreed with because he pretty much swiped it from one of John's Star Wars scores.

[tmarps 217]

57 minutes ago, karelm said:

The Hal Leonard suite is not John Williams's original.  It was edited and altered from the original.  The wind trills at the start are in Hal Leonard but not the score nor film for example. 

 

But it’s still an orchestration by Williams himself as opposed to someone else, telling us that this is how it should be 

[karelm 2,903]

9 hours ago, tmarps said:

 

But it’s still an orchestration by Williams himself as opposed to someone else, telling us that this is how it should be 

Not exactly.  He is approving the arranging which doesn't mean he created it or wanted it.  Hal Leanards interest is in symphonic concert settings so there are decisions made that make more practical and symphonic sense than filmic sense. JW signature means he approves it not that it is accurate to the original.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

If he approves he's at least okay with it.

[rough cut 1,714]

If the rights are with JW - which I doubt, but who knows - there’s no way in hell JW himself is looking at and approving these. The more likely scenario is that there is soneone on the team who does this.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Well it's already been confirmed that he does, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rough cut 1,714]

Haha, me - being the stubborn ass that I am - will refuse to believe it until I hear it out the horse’s mouth! 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

That's an innovative way to refer to Tom Cruise...

[igger6 894]

15 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Well it's already been confirmed that he does, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Has this actually been confirmed?  You said you heard it in a podcast, but I don't see any other confirmation on this page.  What's your source for this?  That would be fascinating if true, but it does sound farfetched, as some have pointed out.  If it's true, that also casts a new light on those rumors from a few months ago about JW supposedly disliking Giacchino's Rogue One and thumbing the scales for Powell to score Solo.  Can you post a link to the episode?

[Faleel 5,340]

Nevermind.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

4 hours ago, igger6 said:

 

Has this actually been confirmed?  You said you heard it in a podcast, but I don't see any other confirmation on this page.  What's your source for this?  That would be fascinating if true, but it does sound farfetched, as some have pointed out.  If it's true, that also casts a new light on those rumors from a few months ago about JW supposedly disliking Giacchino's Rogue One and thumbing the scales for Powell to score Solo.  Can you post a link to the episode?

Gordy Haab himself confirmed it in an interview with David Collins, so it's definitely true. I think it was in an interview for RFR, but I'm not sure what episode (as there are hundreds), but it was the only one that features Haab.

[Faleel 5,340]

Just now, Manakin Skywalker said:

Gordy Haab himself confirmed it in an interview with David Collins, so it's definitely true.

On RebelForceRadio's Star Wars Oxygen.

[peter.anschutz 43]

On 4/11/2018 at 10:23 AM, karelm said:

 

The Hal Leonard suite is not John Williams's original.  It was edited and altered from the original.  The wind trills at the start are in Hal Leonard but not the score nor film for example. 

 

 

Wait, do you mean the trills from bar 6 to 9? I definitely hear those in the recordings...

[Jay 37,322]

On 4/11/2018 at 2:56 AM, DominicCobb said:

Speaking of, didn't someone here once breakdown which takes, when combined together, made up the main title of the original film? Anyone remember?

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27301-star-wars-1977-main-title-reconstructed-from-takes-18-19-20/&do=findComment&comment=1340267