Works where JW quotes himself

[fililando 19]

Good evening, 

I was score reading some ROTS cues and I found this trombones passage which recalled me the Elegy for Cello. I'd like to know where Williams quotes himself, uses similar motives, orchestration,  etc. in his works. Both consciously (like in E.T. with Yoda's theme) or unconsciously.

[Corellian2019 384]

The "Ark of the Covenant" theme in The Last Crusade

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

THE LONG GOODBYE, in CANTO BIGHT.

JW also rerecorded MAGGIE SHOOTS POOL, for use in the Promenade Room scenes, in THE TOWERING INFERNO.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Esplanade Overture in the score for Monsignor.

 

Several pieces of other scores were "borrowed" for Chamber of Secrets. And the troll cue from HP1 borrows from Home Alone... 2, I think?

[artguy360 1,843]

Yoda's theme in ET. Duel of the Fates and ESB Vader vs Luke music in ROTS. 

[John 2,032]

There’s a bit of music at 1:40 in “Emperor’s Throne Room” that sounds like Key’s theme from E.T.

 

 

 

[Matt S. 493]

Quotes from Jaws and CE3K appear in the score to 1941.

[MrScratch 294]

The Basket Chase in Temple Of Doom.

[Alex 2,833]

There are some parts in The Quidditch Match and Ludlow’s Demise (around 1.36) which are very similar 

[Kühni 485]

War of the Worlds in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Thor 7,478]

Some of the titles mentioned here are just assumptions made by the poster, not confirmed references:
 

Quote

THE LONG GOODBYE, in CANTO BIGHT.

And the troll cue from HP1 borrows from Home Alone... 2, I think?

There are some parts in The Quidditch Match and Ludlow’s Demise (around 1.36) which are very similar 

War of the Worlds in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

 

I'm tempted to say "Make Me Rainbows" from FITZWILLY and "In the Moonlight" from SABRINA, but again, I'm unsure if it's an intended reuse of the melody.

 

There's a 'silent film' motif in THE KATHERINE REED STORY which he reused for his 'silent film montage'.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jabba's theme in TPM.

[Josh500 1,615]

Just now, Stefancos said:

Jabba's theme in TPM.

 

Is that quoting himself? It's the same franchise! So this theme from the Star Wars cannon was just used.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its the only time JW used that thene outside ROTJ.

[Chen G. 3,944]

I wouldn't call using leitmotives as "quoting oneself", especially when they're varied and used in narrativelly appropriate situations. I would say however that intentionally quoting a specific variation in verbatim would count as quoting, like the Imperial March variation from Bespin in Revenge of the Sith, or Leia's and Yoda's themes from the concert arrangements in The Last Jedi.

 

On the flipside, I'd also not dub using a little generic phrase or chord progression as "quoting oneself". Its more of an issue of style. Quotes need to be a little more substantive (like the aforementioned "Long Goodbye" quote in The Last Jedi) or, at least, much more persisent throughout a large portion of one's body of work: e.g. Horner's "danger" gestures.

 

There's also a discussion to be had on whether specific timbral and orchestrational choices constitute "quoting".

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

I'm tempted to say "Make Me Rainbows" from FITZWILLY and "In the Moonlight" from SABRINA, but again, I'm unsure if it's an intended reuse of the melody.

 

I think this if fairly certain without the need for a confirmation. He probably went back to his roots to find something which could fit in Sabrina.

[Jilal 569]

16 hours ago, fililando said:

Good evening, 

I was score reading some ROTS cues and I found this trombones passage which recalled me the Elegy for Cello. I'd like to know where Williams quotes himself, uses similar motives, orchestration,  etc. in his works. Both consciously (like in E.T. with Yoda's theme) or unconsciously.

 

Is that the cue underscoring the Anakin & Obi-Wan vs. Dooku duel?

[Thor 7,478]

Quote

I think this if fairly certain without the need for a confirmation. He probably went back to his roots to find something which could fit in Sabrina.

 

Could be, but they're not 100% identical.

 

Also -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- doesn't he reuse material from AN UNFINISHED JOURNEY in A TIMELESS CALL?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Could be, but they're not 100% identical.

 

No, but if a musicologist was to analyze the similarities of the two songs, the conclusion would likely be that Moonlight is a version or a variation of Rainbows.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

"According to myself, I'm the greatest composer of all time."

 

-John Williams quoting himself

[fililando 19]

20 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I wouldn't call using leitmotives as "quoting oneself", especially when they're varied and used in narrativelly appropriate situations. I would say however that intentionally quoting a specific variation in verbatim would count as quoting, like the Imperial March variation from Bespin in Revenge of the Sith, or Leia's and Yoda's themes from the concert arrangements in The Last Jedi.

 

On the flipside, I'd also not dub using a little generic phrase or chord progression as "quoting oneself". Its more of an issue of style. Quotes need to be a little more substantive (like the aforementioned "Long Goodbye" quote in The Last Jedi) or, at least, much more persisent throughout a large portion of one's body of work: e.g. Horner's "danger" gestures.

 

There's also a discussion to be had on whether specific timbral and orchestrational choices constitute "quoting".

Thanks for this reply! That's what I meant: the issue of style. Maybe quotes wasn't the right word. I'd like to discover melodic sequences that Williams, because of his style, uses unintentionally (or for sure he notices similarities but keep them because it's a matter of style and inner voice). I am sorry if I still can't explain what I really want to say. 

For example, there's a part on Hook score which melodically reminds me a lot the Harry Potter one. I don't remember the exact point, I'll post here once I have time to listen to it.

20 hours ago, Jilal said:

 

Is that the cue underscoring the Anakin & Obi-Wan vs. Dooku duel?

This is the "Death of Dooku" cue 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

"Duu-du-du-duuuu, duu-du-duuuu, duu-du-du-duuuu, duu-du-duu-duu-duuuu!"

 

-John Williams quoting the Raiders March

[Smeltington 1,436]

5 hours ago, fililando said:

I'd like to discover melodic sequences that Williams, because of his style, uses unintentionally (or for sure he notices similarities but keep them because it's a matter of style and inner voice).

 

There are at least a few of these that appear over and over again. Somebody pointed this out, I think it was last year, how prevalent a certain descending phrase from Flag Parade is in his work. It's in Hook (Granny Wendy?), it appears in HP1, Munich, and quite a few other places. Sorry I don't have time at the moment to think of more examples with timestamps, or find that thread.

 

People have also noticed the similarity between Across the Stars and the Hook prologue, and this has to do especially with a 5-note phrase that Williams uses in both. He also uses it in a ton of other themes, like Jane Eyre (just the first four notes), Fawkes the Phoenix, and many more.

 

Maybe later I'll have time to post YouTube samples.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Also, the kind of resmeblence that people hear between Rose's theme and Anakin's. The similarity there stems from the style which Williams uses to convey youthfulness in his themes.

[Tallguy 3,380]

On 4/15/2018 at 3:39 AM, Stefancos said:

Its the only time JW used that thene outside ROTJ.

It's the only time Jabba appeared outside of ROTJ.

 

Williams only used Luke and Leia once outside of ROTJ as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Exactly!

[Tom 4,640]

Battle of the Heroes in TLJ death of Paige scene. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Well, she was a hero.

[KingPin 201]

Dry Your Tears Afrika being quoted in both The Patriot theme and in the “Civil Rights and the Women’s Movement” Part of The Unfinished Journey stands out for me. Also the Land Race from Far and Away being quoted in the first movement of The Unfinished Journey.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Good lord 7:50-8:30 something in the background sounds like its straight out of "Chrome Dome" or Escape.

I can't find the corresponding track, but I just saw the movie and the scene where the daughter is looking straight into the eye of the machine has a more obvious quote, of what is almost exactly the horn trills and flares in this:

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Snoke sounds like the film version insert from the approach to Pankot Palace.

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

On 14. 4. 2018 at 11:27 PM, Richard said:

THE LONG GOODBYE, in CANTO BIGHT.

JW also rerecorded MAGGIE SHOOTS POOL, for use in the Promenade Room scenes, in THE TOWERING INFERNO.

  Where is Canto Bight in The Long Goodbye? Please YT link. Thanks

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

I'm watching it later. I'll get back to you with a time. I think that it's in the fathier chase.

[Pellaeon 593]

 

Sounds a bit like Luke’s Theme in the trumpet.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Immolation Scene sounds similar to Saying Goodbye from Amazing Stories: The Mission.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Race to the Room / Hot Pursuit has a cue starting at 2:30 and again at 2:50 that sounds similar to The Basket Game and/or Indy's First Adventure, but can't quite place where. 

 

 

 

[ins 42]

Circus Train at 5:30 bears some familiarity:

https://youtu.be/u8sxMFoPGsM