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John Powell's How To Train Your Dragon (3): The Hidden World

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I like Armada Battle, but I think it suffers in comparison to 2’s Battle of the Bewildebeast which was so propulsive and featured new developments of many of the themes, where a lot of the material in Armada Battle is better-orchestrated restatements of older material, which is a little disappointing to me. I love the new material in that track, but some of it feels redundant.

 

I think Powell was probably playing to nostalgia a bit the way he did in Solo’s Reminiscence Therapy, except with his own material, but Armada Battle doesn’t have all the awesome transitional material that that track had that, to me, made it so exciting.

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18 minutes ago, SteveMc said:

You do have a point, the villain theme does not jump out, no.  Again, perhaps Powell was purposely being introspective.  I have no qualms with Armada Battle, though.

 

So when Powell writes a disappointing theme, he's just being introspective? :sarcasm:

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I’m relieved I’m not the only one who thought Grimmel’s theme sounds like Blue’s theme! I thought I was nuts. Though, yeah, I guess I am anyway. It works anyhow, as Powell puts the theme through a lot more variations than Giacchino did with Blue’s.

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Since when are we calling it Blue's theme?  Isn't it a theme for Owen and the squad as a whole??

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9 hours ago, Warrior of Wet Dreams said:

Precisely! I like keeping the suite as an opening overture. :)

I on the other hand include it as the end credits in my listening experience and throw out Jónsi's song just like I did with the other two HTTYD scores. Can't stand any of the three.

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That's nice. His vocals in the score are luckily not as distracting as his song. Waste of good disc space I say!

 

While I perhaps like the second score still a bit more, the third one is one heck of a send off to the trilogy. As @crocodile said, there is a lovely nostalgic quality to the whole work while still continuing to develop thematically and Powell expertly handles the juggling of his numerous themes, new and old. I am especially fond of the new added vocal dimension of the music and some of the finale choral work is just heart warmingly lovely.

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11 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The first thing I heard during the opening of Once There Were Dragons aka:

  Reveal hidden contents

was 'Star of Bethlehem' from Home Alone 2! 

Interestingly without knowing the context of the track it sounded like a lullaby to me at first.

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John Powell pulled a Jerry Goldsmith on this film and scored the best imaginary version of it. The music itself evokes what films itself fails to do. It's not really horrible or even bad...just really lackluster. They knew they didn't deserve this score so decided to turn the volume knob down. There are some moments where it is allowed to be heard but never manages to soar like the first one. 

 

Karol

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4 hours ago, Incanus said:

I on the other hand include it as the end credits in my listening experience and throw out Jónsi's song just like I did with the other two HTTYD scores. Can't stand any of the three.

 

I like the song from the second score, but this one... meh. Gave it a listen, didn't like it.

 

At least I'll get it by default if I buy the album digitally rather than buying the CD, which has suddenly become very hard to get in the UK.

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22 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

At least I'll get it by default if I buy the album digitally rather than buying the CD, which has suddenly become very hard to get in the UK.

Yeah I pre-ordered the CD from Amazon UK and it was supposed to come out at the start of the month but now their delivery estimate reads Usually dispatched within 1 to 4 weeks. So sadly it is delayed.

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4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Ah yes, it was showing 1 to 2 months last week. Maybe it's because no one's bothering to press it outside the states.

Mine is being prepared for dispatch now. It changed today. And they did charge my card so it must be in.

 

Karol

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28 minutes ago, Warrior of Wet Dreams said:

I bought both CD and digital, because I like giving Powell my money twice.

JPFan

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Composer Credits

Courtesy of Hans-Zimmer.com

 

  1. Raiders Return To Busy, Busy Berk (5:27) 
    John Powell, Paul Mounsey
  2. Dinner Talk - Grimmel's Introduction (3:53
    John Powell, Batu Sener
  3. Legend Has It - Cliffside Playtime (4:21) 
    John Powell, Batu Sener
  4. Toothless: Smitten (3:16) 
    John Powell, Batu Sener
  5. Worst Pep Talk Ever (2:40) 
    John Powell
  6. Night Fury Killer (3:36) 
    John Powell, Batu Sener, Paul Mounsey
  7. Exodus! (4:38) 
    John Powell, Anthony Willis
  8. Third Date (6:49) 
    John Powell
  9. New "New Tail" (1:28) 
    John Powell, Anthony Willis
  10. Furies In Love (3:03) 
    John Powell
  11. Killer Dragons (5:05) 
    John Powell, Batu Sener
  12. With Love Comes A Great Waterfall (2:08) 
    John Powell
  13. The Hidden World (5:16) 
    John Powell, Paul Mounsey, Jónsi
  14. Armada Battle (8:40) 
    John Powell, Batu Sener, Anthony Willis
  15. As Long As He's Safe (6:29) 
    John Powell
  16. Once There Were Dragons (5:45) 
    John Powell
  17. Together From Afar - Jonsi (3:17)
  18. The Hidden World Suite (Digital Bonus Track) (6:40) 
    John Powell

 

------

 

Unfortunately, i've joined them group who always care whether a Powell track is a solo Powell track.

I think they are prove of Powell's pure talents.

It's disaaponting to see little solo Powell cues :((

 

But i mean, can somebody explain; to what extend do these "additional music composers" work, or in general how Powell works ?

 

In my usual animation/motion graphic works, i build the whole design, i create the storyline/storyboard, also direct how the graphic and the animation should work, editing and many others, and in many cases, i handled "solo" ( doingboth  the illustration and animation) some of these scenes ( the  studio term is "Creative Director ); while the team on the other hand execute them ( they also include their own creative inputs too).

 

is it the same like that? Or Powell truly works on each cues ?, with some "unimportant" sections ( the..."you get it right? now finish it"..moment ) being given to his minions.

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2 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

But i mean, can somebody explain; to what extend do these "additional music composers" work, or in general how Powell works ?

 

In my usual animation/motion graphic works, i build the whole design, i create the storyline/storyboard, also direct how the graphic and the animation should work, editing and many others, and in many cases, i handled "solo" ( doingboth  the illustration and animation) some of these scenes ( the  studio term is "Creative Director ); while the team on the other hand execute them ( they also include their own creative inputs too).

 

is it the same like that? Or Powell truly works on each cues ?, with some "unimportant" sections ( the..."you get it right? now finish it"..moment ) being given to his minions.

 

Yeah this is something I've always wondered myself. Unlike people like Giacchino, Desplat, and JNH, Powell credits not only orchestrators but also additional music composers. Which raises the question - does Powell himself write much less than those other aforementioned popular film composers, or is he simply being more candid in his credits and these are really just arrangers? 

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4 hours ago, Will said:

 

Yeah this is something I've always wondered myself. Unlike people like Giacchino, Desplat, and JNH, Powell credits not only orchestrators but also additional music composers. Which raises the question - does Powell himself write much less than those other aforementioned popular film composers, or is he simply being more candid in his credits and these are really just arrangers? 

 

Powell once said ( idk where, i forgot the source ) about how he operates as a studio, and how he always creates the music in a studio-manner ( one album track consists of many different cues ). And once, Powell also jokingly said ( when receiving the Henry Mancini award) that his assistant(s) ( currently Batu Sener) handled music that Powell couldn't be bothered to do ( or in other word, "unimportant " ). But its still confusing....

 

And it's still getting on my nerve, to hear a track so great but its merit couldnt be WHOLEFULLY credited to the composer ( as opposed to Lord John Williams ).

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@PrayodiBA All of the music stems from Powell's themes and sketches, other writers credited would've had a hand in helping Powell but he would've guided them in some way. It's just a formality to credit those who help you and I'm sure Powell would want to give these guys a leg-in like Zimmer did for him.

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On 2/2/2019 at 6:24 PM, PrayodiBA said:

 I revised my judgement!

Early on, i said that the track "Armada Battle" is perhaps the most annoying part of the album...on my first listen.

But...

 

After repeat listen...

This track just soars, up there to one of the best track in the album.

The editing is not bad like i stated before.

And my gosh, the writing is very sophisticated, especially the brass! Unlike previous Powell. The mixing is wayy better than previous Powell too

 

I'm coming to the same conclusion - the section from 1:30 to 3:45 is way more sophisticated than I'd given him credit for, and the brief diversion into Romantic Flight which first felt very jarring, kind of works now, because the orchestration keeps the same energy. I would imagine that the second half probably works a bit better with the film (sounds like a lot is happening), but there are still some really interesting ideas in there.

 

The only two tracks on the album that I'm not quite 'getting' are Night Fury Killer and Killer Dragons. They slightly irk the flow of what is otherwise a very romantic or at least exciting score.

 

Amazon's delivery estimate is jumping all over the place. I guess I'll just order it and it will come when it comes....

 

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11 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I'm coming to the same conclusion - the section from 1:30 to 3:45 is way more sophisticated than I'd given him credit for, and the brief diversion into Romantic Flight which first felt very jarring, kind of works now, because the orchestration keeps the same energy. I would imagine that the second half probably works a bit better with the film (sounds like a lot is happening), but there are still some really interesting ideas in there.

 

The only two tracks on the album that I'm not quite 'getting' are Night Fury Killer and Killer Dragons. They slightly irk the flow of what is otherwise a very romantic or at least exciting score.

  

Amazon's delivery estimate is jumping all over the place. I guess I'll just order it and it will come when it comes....

  

My copy dispatched today and I pre-ordered my copy well and good before the estimated original release date.

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I've been loving this variation on the theme from "Flying with Mother" recently - is it technically called the Lost and Found theme? Either way, it's bloody epic!

 

 

And the whole of "Once There Were Dragons", especially the choral Hidden World theme!

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My CD arrived today from Amazon. No indications as to why there's a delay sending them out as it was dispatched from the UK.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 2:44 AM, Not Mr. Big said:

Give Powell the Avatar threequels!

 

This!!!!

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On 2/5/2019 at 9:43 PM, crocodile said:

John Powell pulled a Jerry Goldsmith on this film and scored the best imaginary version of it. The music itself evokes what films itself fails to do. It's not really horrible or even bad...just really lackluster. They knew they didn't deserve this score so decided to turn the volume knob down. There are some moments where it is allowed to be heard but never manages to soar like the first one. 

 

Karol

Disagree completely, it's a fitting end to the series, and the score was mixed well, perhaps it was just your screening? I've seen it twice now and both times in different screenings, and both presented the score in a fairly prominent mix.

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16 hours ago, Arpy said:

Disagree completely, it's a fitting end to the series, and the score was mixed well, perhaps it was just your screening? I've seen it twice now and both times in different screenings, and both presented the score in a fairly prominent mix.

Some sections were mixed well in my screening (Furies in Love) but overall I was struggling to hear the music (especially the opening sequence). The film itself.. well, it's fine I suppose. But it doesn't have a lean story and didn't really spark any sort of emotional reaction from me. I was disappointed that...

Spoiler

...after all this build-up to a confrontation with formidable villain (whose name I cannot even remember) it ended up being no challenge at all. There's no point really where you feel Hiccup and his band are outnumbered because as soon as the low point in the story comes along it is resolved almost immediately just a few minutes later. I suppose it takes only a small band of kids to defeat an entire armada in no time at all. It was a very flat sequence. Plus I didn't really feel the heartbreak when Hiccup and Toothless part ways because it was sort of already obvious from a get go. Overall I don't think it was a terribly focused script. I don't quite understand why didn't the villain kill off both furies towards the end. Wasn't that the point all along? It's really confusing. It appears to me this film doesn't really know what to do with its vast number of character or how to balance out all the subplots. It's enjoyable for the most part but oddly weightless. And yes, I very much enjoy the first two.

 

Karol

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This is interesting. Bringing more appreciation into the track:

 

 

The lyric goes (latin):

 

novam domun, novam domun,

novam dona nobis pacem,

pacem petimus pacem,

pacem,

domi,

domi

 

According to ever resourceful Google Translate:

 

New gift, new gift,

Grant us new peace,

We seek peace, peace,

Peace,

Home,

Home

 

aw...:(

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