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kaseykockroach

Best John Williams tribute score?

Best John Williams wannabe sequel score?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Best John Williams franchise sequel score?

    • Jurassic World (Michael Giacchino)
      1
    • Jurassic Park III (Don Davis)
      4
    • Jaws 3D (Alan Parker)
      2
    • Jaws: The Revenge (Michael Small)
      1
    • Harry Potter (Patrick Doyle)
      9
    • Harry Potter (Alexandre Desplat)
      3
    • Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Michael Giacchino)
      4
    • Superman Returns (John Ottman)
      3
    • Superman 4: The Quest for Peace (Alexander Courage)
      2
    • Harry Potter (Nicholas Hooper)
      0
    • Superman III (Ken Thorne)
      0
    • Solo: A Star Wars Story (John Powell)
      0
    • Video game scores (various)
      1
    • Fantastic Beasts (James Newton Howard)
      1


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Sorry, not sure what else to title this subject...

Anyway, considering how often John Williams-scored franchises have to continue without him and other composers step in with varying success, what would you say was the most musically worthy follow-up?

Not sure if Harry Potter can count here as I don't know whether or not Alexandre Desplat or Patrick Doyle used John Williams' themes. But I felt I should add them to the poll anyway, just in case. 

Apologies in advance if I'm forgetting any.

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Desplat and Doyle did use "Hedwig's Theme" in their scores, but you're also missing Nicholas Hooper (not that anyone here would probably vote for him...)

 

I actually like James Newton Howard's Fantastic Beasts more than all of these. I suppose that counts since he also referenced "Hedwig's Theme" and generally followed Williams's lead stylistically.

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I don't really care for any of those titles very much, but I do appreciate JURASSIC PARK III and especially HARRY POTTER IV, but more because the Davis and Doyle voices shine so brightly THROUGH any approximations of Williams.

 

None of them are the best Williams 'pastiche' scores, though. In that category, I would rather put something by McNeely (SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE, for example), Mike Verta or John Debney.

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John Outman's Superman Returns is decent, as is Jurassic Park 3, Superman Q4est for Peace, and Dead Hallows 1.  Doyle's score is good but not really an approximation of Williams (for better or worse).  Haven't heard Jaws3 or Jaws 4.  The rest are bad.

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How about Joel Mcneely's Star Wars Shadows of the Empire?  Yes, yes, it is a video game score but a solid OST.  But then I guess you'd have to include Gordy Habb, et al. 

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The title was a bit misleading for the thread, I don't think any of them come close to being tributes, but as sequel scores I went with Doyle's GoF. That score was just so powerful that it made my concerns about Williams not scoring it moot.

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I can't say I care for any of these scores listed, but Desplat's Potter scores may edge out the other alternatives, especially the final one - I thought he did a pretty solid job even if they are by no means great or anything I particularly liked much. It is the best score, but not the best "tribute", meaning the closest to Williams's music.

 

Mike Verta probably does the best Williams's pastiche though imo.

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15 minutes ago, Lewya said:

 

Mike Verta probably does the best Williams's pastiche though imo.

That kind of Williams "tribute" is really boring though.  Recreating Williams' mannerisms to a tee may be impressive as a technical feat but it's not very interesting to listen to IMO.  

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I agree, I never said it was very interesting to listen to. None of the scores listed are very interesting to listen to. Shadows of the Empire is a nicely orchestrated nothingsness (ok, with some decent ideas) with some pretty heavy lifts - Ravel, Walton etc if I remember correctly. Serviceable, even a cut above that, but hardly great music.

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1 minute ago, Lewya said:

I agree, I never said it was very interesting to listen to. None of the scores listed are very interesting to listen to. Shadows of the Empire is a nicely orchestrated nothingsness (ok, with some decent ideas) with some pretty heavy lifts - Ravel, Walton etc if I remember correctly. Serviceable, even a cut above that, but hardly great music.

True

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15 minutes ago, John said:

Giacchino's Jurassic World. In my book, it's nearly as good as Williams' original score. An excellent companion piece.

 

 

Haha oh I'm sorry I'm not wearing my glasses at first I thought you said it's nearly as good.....wait.....dear god

 

 

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12 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Haha oh I'm sorry I'm not wearing my glasses at first I thought you said it's nearly as good.....wait.....dear god

 

dennis nobody cares.png

 

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Apologies for the misleading title. Again, wasn't sure how to refer to this whole charade. 

Anyway, I'd actually vote for Jaws 3D, which is odd as I have no idea what Alan Parker's work is like beyond this movie. But it's dang solid monster movie music that uses the John Williams theme respectably enough, and has a sweet theme for the theme park. I'd probably say it works better overall than either of the JP sequel scores, but I wouldn't be able to articulate why I'd feel that way. Something about the Alan Parker work just feels surprisingly confident and assured of itself.

Giacchino's Jurassic World at least compels me a heck of a lot more than Davis' JP3 does, but both have their highlights and drawbacks that are consistent with the composers in question. While I'd rather have John Powell (of course) or Fernando Velasquez doing Fallen Kingdom or eventually JW3, I'd probably take Giacchino over Davis any day. That said, while Davis throws in the Williams theme way too dang often for its own good, it at least actually plays around with the theme each time (unlike Giacchino who only seems to know how to just play a theme straight), so I'd give the points to Davis in that aspect.

Davis' also feels a lot more modern and 'serious', while Giacchino's is old-fashioned and corny (the action music always reminded me of 50's monster movies). I probably just find corn to be yummy.

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3 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Apologies for the misleading title. Again, wasn't sure how to refer to this whole charade. 

 

You could just say "best non-JW sequel score to a JW-scored original" or something. :)

 

"Tribute scores" are really something else and something wider; i.e. someone who does a brilliant JW pastiche (whether part of a JW-scored universe or not). As I've always said, there are good pastiches and bad pastiches. Guys like Verta, McNeely and Debney fall in the former category, while guys like Giacchino and Desplat fall in the latter, IMO.

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13 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I actually like James Newton Howard's Fantastic Beasts more than all of these. I suppose that counts since he also referenced "Hedwig's Theme" and generally followed Williams's lead stylistically.

That one!!! Definitely that one!

Probably the only one of the bunch that truly comes close to living up to its potential.

 

But since that isn't in the poll:

13 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I will say Rogue One. I like this score. Others don't. Oh well. I like it.

I'll second that. Giacchino did a pretty darn good job and he finishes second.

 

Then there are also Jurassic Park III, Superman IV and Superman Returns to some extent.

Don't much care for any of those others.

 

Goblet of Fire was especially disappointing to me and I wonder if I'll ever see the supposed brilliance in that one.

Such a shame, because I know Patrick Doyle can do a pretty good job and his Murder on the Orient Express was particularly effective.

 

2 hours ago, Thor said:

"Tribute scores" are really something else and something wider; i.e. someone who does a brilliant JW pastiche (whether part of a JW-scored universe or not). As I've always said, there are good pastiches and bad pastiches. Guys like Verta, McNeely and Debney fall in the former category, while guys like Giacchino and Desplat fall in the latter, IMO.

Agreed on almost all points!

 

At Debney's best, I think he rises above mere pastiche and creates something truly worthwhile on its own.

Cutthroat Island, Lair and The Jungle Book spring to mind.

This does not happen often. At all. These three may be the only real examples in existence.

 

I'm not convinced Giacchino really does pastiche anymore; not like when he did his (very good) Medal of Honour scores.

These days, more of his own voice shines through; for better or for worse.

That makes his recent work more "Giacchino music with Williams themes" than "a Williams score that Williams never wrote".

 

Who is this Mike Verta? What (adventure) scores of his are worth checking out?

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39 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Who is this Mike Verta? What (adventure) scores of his are worth checking out?

 

FORBIDDEN WARRIOR is excellent and, I believe, released on album not too long ago. Otherwise, I recommend checking out his site and listen to his "style excercises". He's particularly good at Williams -- like the Rich Little of film music -- but he does a decent Elman too: https://mikeverta.com/ (hmm...seems to be down at the moment).

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2 minutes ago, Thor said:

FORBIDDEN WARRIOR is excellent and, I believe, released on album not too long ago.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll have to see if I can get that at some point then... :D

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14 hours ago, John said:

Giacchino's Jurassic World. In my book, it's nearly as good as Williams' original score. An excellent companion piece.

Image result for jeff goldblum gif

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3 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Image result for jeff goldblum gif

 

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:38 AM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

[Rogue One] is a powerful, emotional, exciting, and balanced score. 

 

Look who's talking. ;)

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18 hours ago, karelm said:

How about Joel Mcneely's Star Wars Shadows of the Empire?  Yes, yes, it is a video game score but a solid OST.

It is not a video game score, it is a concert work inspired by a EU storyline/novel.

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1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said:

Added two choices. :P

Out of curiosity: is there a reason Fantastic Beasts is not included?

Of course that one barely has three statements of Hedwig's Theme and no other Williams, so I could understand why it wouldn't quite count...

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The original material Davis penned for JPIII was fairly compelling, but I never cared for his quotations of Williams's themes. They felted rush, perfunctory and lacking in warmth.

 

Parker's Jaws 3D is surprisingly competent in execution and clearly deserving of a better film, but something about the tone rubs me the wrong way. I feel like the gig should've gone to someone with a bit more experience, like Harry Manfredini.

 

I went with Jaws: The Revenge. Michael Small isn't a composer that gets enough love around these parts, and unlike many of the poll's options (i.e. the Potters) the score doesn't overstay its welcome. It has just the right degree of continuity and invention, and it's always a pleasure to hear a composer renowned (in the industry) for scoring claustrophobic character-pieces take on a larger canvass, and to do it with such gusto.

 

 

I like the slideshow, which seems to be saying 'Klute, The Parallax View, Marathon Man, All The President's Men... What the fuck happened to this guy's career?'

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20 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

This thread will still be open by May 25th. ;)

Can I change mine then. Solo sounds nice from those clips!

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