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What could be Williams' big "problem"?


filmmusic

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Everyone's in an inescapable behavior loop, seems to have the memory of a goldfish, life is punctuated by random violence/aggression.  And it begins to feel like one long existential crisis the more time you spend in it.

 

And someone watching from the outside would just be confused as hell.

 

Exactly like Westworld!

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6 minutes ago, Sharky said:

johnmasayo.jpg

 

Williams' big problem.

 

It's his other hand... well I think??? ;)

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1 minute ago, someonefun124 said:

 

That's not a big problem, that's a big blessing.

 

He was teased for it ever since he waa a teen: "Hey look, guys, if it ain't good ol' John Tower Williams!"

 

I've briefly considered this topic in the past. As has been mentioned earlier, of course he's gone through suffering, as has every human being. But through it all he's a man very dedicated to his craft, and from an outside perspective seems to wish to live a simple, quietly gratifying life. I'm personally glad that I've had someone like John Williams as a role model since my teens.

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3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Like a granddaughter!

 

 

 

You should listen to the first Jaws episode of The Soundtrack Show.

 

David Collins goes into detail on this very theory/viewpoint, actually.

 

https://www.soundtrackpodcast.com/podcasts/jaws-williams-and-spielberg-an-introduction.htm

 

Blume did it better.  And maybe first. 

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1 minute ago, TGP said:

 

That's what people who don't define themselves through their work and just want do a job well enough to earn and support their families say!

 

I agree!

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1 hour ago, Sharky said:

I suspect he would score extremely high in trait conscientiousness on the 5-Factor Personality Model. There's a strong genetic component to that but family environment can also play a significant part.

 

Not only is he probably something like 99.999th percentile in conscientiousness but probably very high in openness too, which is not a very common combination.

 

However, he has hinted in the past that he is no "Mozart" in the sense that he has to work very hard to come up with a good melody. He says that composing for film is very arduous but that it's always worth it in the end. I think it's somehow in JW's blood that he understands the idea that if you do the best work you possibly can then somehow the hard work will pay off in the end. As far as I can tell he wasn't a wunderkind, he started playing piano comparatively late IIRC, but somehow he got in the mindset of putting in the work to do the best job he can, be it performing or composing (and to be honest, from what I've heard his piano playing in the 50s-60s recordings is pretty much first rate). There is no doubt that he's supremely gifted in his ability to tell what "works" in music, otherwise all his hard work wouldn't have taken him very far. But I think there's something very rare about his determination to put in all the effort he can to make his music the best sounding he can make it.

 

He's been very inspirational to me in this sense. Naturally I am not conscientious at all, but reading about how it is not easy for JW to come up with good music and how he has to work hard to get it, has encouraged me to try to work harder too, in whatever I do (...well, maybe with the exception of JWFan shitposting).

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6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I agree!

 

Drax is right.  Work is important, it is everything.  Without it we are nothing.  The wealthy and powefuly envy those of us who get to put in the hard effort every day and make the world go round through it.  A good work ethic is a right and proper thing, a gift from above.  A cold beer is its reward.  Trump, Zuckerberg, Musk, they wish they could give it all up for a simpler lifestyle of hard honest work. 

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22 minutes ago, Sharky said:

"My father was a Maine man—we were very close. My mother was from Boston. My father's parents ran a department store in Bangor, Maine, and my mother's father was a cabinetmaker. [...] People with those roots are not inclined to be lazy."[10]  

 

Does anyone have the rest of that interview?

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6 minutes ago, TGP said:

 

Drax is right.  Work is important, it is everything.  Without it we are nothing.  The wealthy and powefuly envy those of us who get to put in the hard effort every day and make the world go round through it.  A good work ethic is a right and proper thing, a gift from above.  A cold beer is its reward.  

 

I don't really care what ironic point you're trying to make and it feels like a waste of time.

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Aggressive and confrontational?  Sarcastic and cynical.  You've never had a problem knowing the difference before unlike some people.  If something does have you down, hope it passes soon. 

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17 minutes ago, TGP said:

 

Drax is right.  Work is important, it is everything.  Without it we are nothing.  The wealthy and powefuly envy those of us who get to put in the hard effort every day and make the world go round through it.  A good work ethic is a right and proper thing, a gift from above.  A cold beer is its reward.  Trump, Zuckerberg, Musk, they wish they could give it all up for a simpler lifestyle of hard honest work. 

 

Hard work will make you rich!

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32 minutes ago, TGP said:

Drax is right.  Work is important, it is everything.  Without it we are nothing.  The wealthy and powefuly envy those of us who get to put in the hard effort every day and make the world go round through it.  A good work ethic is a right and proper thing, a gift from above.  A cold beer is its reward.  Trump, Zuckerberg, Musk, they wish they could give it all up for a simpler lifestyle of hard honest work. 

 

You mean, before the frontotemporal lobar degeneration set in?

 

32 minutes ago, Loert said:

Not only is he probably something like 99.999th percentile in conscientiousness but probably very high in openness too, which is not a very common combination.

 

That's all very true. I'm probably 6.5443rd %ile consciousness and 98.8543 %ile openness. To the letter. I'm so open my brain has fallen onto the carpet.

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6 hours ago, Bespin said:

He had is lot in life, he lost many children, but like many people from this time.

And then Mozart, who had seven siblings, one of which survived infancy (and then him). His mother and father died before him and most of his children died too, even his wife, if I am correct. Then he ends up writing a Requiem as he lay in his death bed. 

 

Beethoven was deaf. Chopin had heart problems. I think it was just the times for a lot of these people. Little to no developed medicine, disease, ect. There wasn't much a lot of classical composers could do to avoid these pains, let alone anyone at this time.

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My take on the matter: there is no one "problem" that defines and drives composers, poets, artists, etc...  There is a tapestry of challenges and tragedies, joys and inspirations that influence and drive artists.  Bach had a great deal of pain in his life, dealt with some small-minded people, and was quite prickly himself, yet he had a center in his faith, and at the intersection of these influences he created some of the greatest art known to humanity.

 

Anyway, I agree with @Bespin about 1974 marking a pivotal point in Williams's music and outlook.  He has acknowledged as much in an interview a couple of years back.  Even if no single "problem" can be pointed to as the source of artistic drive, a major event can occur that coalesces the mind of the artist. 

 

Oh, and @The Illustrious Jerry, I think you are getting Bach and Mozart mixed up a bit.  Mozart's wife did not die before he did.  He did lose most of his kids, though.  

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2 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

Oh, and @The Illustrious Jerry, I think you are getting Bach and Mozart mixed up a bit.  Mozart's wife did not die before he did.  He did lose most of his kids, though.  

I was trying to go off memory there. Thank you for the correction. The point remains.

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Kind of on topic: I wonder if it depresses Williams that so many directors, actors, and musicians he has worked with (especially those younger than him) have passed on. It is part of the story of anyone who lives well into their eighties, but with such an active life as Williams, it is probably even more acute. 

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4 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

And then Mozart, who had seven siblings, one of which survived infancy (and then him). His mother and father died before him and most of his children died too, even his wife, if I am correct. Then he ends up writing a Requiem as he lay in his death bed.

 

 

Mozart's wife Constanze survived him. She then commissioned Süssmayr to complete the unfinished Requiem.

13 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Back pain, a pacemaker, and in case you haven't noticed (we even have a thread on it) he is balding. 

 

Balding implies that it's a process. His hair has been like that for decades!

 

 

Williams' biggest problem?

trainspotting27.gif

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8 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

His biggest problem according to the majority of JWFans is that he seems to despise his own music and cuts all the best parts from the OST.

Not again.:( Stop reminding me of the OST Rescuing Sarah!

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8 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

He just has an excellent work ethic. To quote Williams:

 

"My father was a Maine man—we were very close. My mother was from Boston. My father's parents ran a department store in Bangor, Maine, and my mother's father was a cabinetmaker. [...] People with those roots are not inclined to be lazy."[10]  

 

I suspect he would score extremely high in trait conscientiousness on the 5-Factor Personality Model. There's a strong genetic component to that but home environment can play a significant role.

 

Damn you, Sharky, for not posting more often.  Great quote and biographic insight.  I don't know what the 5 factor personality model is so will have to look that up.

8 hours ago, Loert said:

 

Not only is he probably something like 99.999th percentile in conscientiousness but probably very high in openness too, which is not a very common combination.

 

However, he has hinted in the past that he is no "Mozart" in the sense that he has to work very hard to come up with a good melody. He says that composing for film is very arduous but that it's always worth it in the end. I think it's somehow in JW's blood that he understands the idea that if you do the best work you possibly can then somehow the hard work will pay off in the end. As far as I can tell he wasn't a wunderkind, he started playing piano comparatively late IIRC, but somehow he got in the mindset of putting in the work to do the best job he can, be it performing or composing (and to be honest, from what I've heard his piano playing in the 50s-60s recordings is pretty much first rate). There is no doubt that he's supremely gifted in his ability to tell what "works" in music, otherwise all his hard work wouldn't have taken him very far. But I think there's something very rare about his determination to put in all the effort he can to make his music the best sounding he can make it.

 

He's been very inspirational to me in this sense. Naturally I am not conscientious at all, but reading about how it is not easy for JW to come up with good music and how he has to work hard to get it, has encouraged me to try to work harder too, in whatever I do (...well, maybe with the exception of JWFan shitposting).

 

You nailed it @Loert I also think it is very irrelevant if it comes easy to you or not.  I've ranted about this in other threads but lots of composers/comp students believe it must be easy so get into this foolish one-up-manship.  Sort of like if they can convince others they hardly tried that makes them a better composer.  Not true.   It starts off by them rejecting a compliment by saying they forgot about the composition deadline until last night or something.  Then the following week someone says "oh that thing?  I wrote it while I was on the phone".  Etc., etc.,  The bottom line is it shows when people phoned it in and it is nothing to brag about.  There are always situations where the deadline dictated the final result and we wish we had more time to fine tune it because its flaws are obvious (to the artist at least). 

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3 hours ago, Tom said:

Kind of on topic: I wonder if it depresses Williams that so many directors, actors, and musicians he has worked with (especially those younger than him) have passed on. It is part of the story of anyone who lives well into their eighties, but with such an active life as Williams, it is probably even more acute. 

 

Yeah, aging is a humbling experience for everyone but that is an interesting point that the entertainment industry is so busy and variable that to be a prominent figure in both film and music, consistently meeting and befriending so many different kinds of people every year as part of your work and social life and then see them go, many of them reported on the evening news....probably takes some sort of toll.

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17 hours ago, Tom said:

Kind of on topic: I wonder if it depresses Williams that so many directors, actors, and musicians he has worked with (especially those younger than him) have passed on. It is part of the story of anyone who lives well into their eighties, but with such an active life as Williams, it is probably even more acute. 

 

I doubt it at this stage in his life.  As one advances through life this becomes somewhat routine. Not that it doesn't sting, but it is the course of life that all endure.

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18 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Do you think he could be the first great composer without a serious problem? … besides his first wife's death

 

I love the premise of this thread. His wife died, but hey, that’s not a “big problem,” like being gay. :blink:

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