The Rebellion is Reborn vs. The Adventures of Han

[Nick Parker 3,040]

29 minutes ago, publicist said:

'Rebellion is Reborn' is a great stand-alone piece. It's only the people who can't separate it from the movie that perceive the themes not working together. Musically i see absolutely no problem.

 

Interesting that you consider it great, I took you as being more critical of Williams' recent stuff. What do you like about it?

[publicist 4,643]

It's just a good, stately and elegantly written cue (and wins especially through the combination of the more urging rebellion theme with the sweet and optimistic counter-theme). I'm not that much of a fan of the composting in TLJ but if anything, it shows Williams having fun, even if that means that he has stopped thinking beyond the legacy of these scores after 2005 (both new scores are rather amalgams of the old 6 parts, with 'Rey's Theme' the only really noteworthy new inclusion).

[artguy360 1,843]

Rebellion is Reborn is a very fun concert piece. It has a warm, broad, optimistic melody contrasted by a driving rhythmic motif with pretty frenzied string writing. It all builds together to a wonderful conclusion.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I've gotta say I've been quite taken by The Adventures of Han after watching the film. It's definitely an earworm now!

[artguy360 1,843]

Rebellion is Reborn is also much more tightly constructed. Listening to the Boston Pops concert, it is immediately clear how much more refined RiR is compared to AoH. That's not to say that I dislike AoH but it is a little messy. The opening has no relation to the rest of the piece, some of it's climaxes aren't built up in a satisfying way, and the false ending has a The Adventures of Mutt kind of feel to it even though the rest of the piece doesn't have that same kind of romp fun tone to it. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

It's only the people who can't separate it from the movie

 

Well, this is film music, you know...

[publicist 4,643]

Jeez..

[aviazn 273]

3 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Why are you constantly cringing? Do you have some kind of facial tic?

[aescalle 122]

The Rebellion is Reborn

[Chewy 2,372]

The Adventures of Han

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

The Rebellion of Han

[Chewy 2,372]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The Rebellion of Han

Much better title.

[Holko 9,499]

The Adventures Reborn.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

The Misadventures of Lady Proxima

[Holko 9,499]

In Duo: A Star Wars Story, I hope we meet her sister Centauri.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I voted for Rebellion is Reborn.  I love how the two melodies play off each other and trade back and forth, doesn't feel slapped together at all for me.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

32 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I voted for Rebellion is Reborn.  I love how the two melodies play off each other and trade back and forth, doesn't feel slapped together at all for me.

 

Yes. Its a superb tour da force of the films new themes.

[Balahkay 627]

Has Williams ever combined two film themes into a single concert arrangement before (aside from end credit suites, of course)?  Is this new for him?  I really don't recall...

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

3 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Has Williams ever combined two film themes into a single concert arrangement before (aside from end credit suites, of course)?  Is this new for him?  I really don't recall...

The original "Han and the Princess" did this with Leia's theme

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Technically Raiders March consists of two themes. It was Spielberg who advised JW to just use both. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

So does the Superman theme.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

So does the Superman theme.

The Superman theme has the love theme too

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

24 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

The Superman theme has the love theme too

 

Indeed. It has too many themes! Just cut a few.

[Pellaeon 593]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Technically Raiders March consists of two themes. It was Spielberg who advised JW to just use both. 

 

Not to mention that the concert arrangement includes Marion’s theme in the middle.

 

2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

The original "Han and the Princess" did this with Leia's theme

 

Yes, I love that, though I would say it is a quote of “Leia’s Theme” within a piece wholly dedicated to “Han Solo and the Princess”. It’s not an arrangement of two themes in the same way as RiR.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The way Williams bounched the different themes around is pretty unusual though. One could argue he does something similar with Rey's Theme.

[The Five Tones 302]

Well, they appear in my SW playlist back to back because I put RiR at the end of TLJ as it didn't fit anywhere else for me. It feels like one of the end title medleys. Otherwise, kind of apples to oranges but I prefer listening to AoH.

On 5/26/2018 at 4:33 AM, filmmusic said:

I think the theme itself, the one at 1.41-1.57 with that harmony, is the best action theme in the tonal language Williams has written since...Duel of fates I think.

I love that chord at 2:59, classic high flying Williams. The theme is tonal, but it doesn't have a set harmony. What happens at 1:41 etc. is a possible harmonization.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Rebellion Is Reborn.

[King Mark 3,624]

On 5/29/2018 at 11:43 AM, Stefancos said:

Technically Raiders March consists of two themes. It was Spielberg who advised JW to just use both. 

 I'm a bit doubtful about this spielberg claim

 

I just see the middle theme as the bridge, like he did in Star Wars and Superman and even Olympic Fanfare

[Holko 9,499]

You can find it in multiple interviews: JW wrote two options for the main theme, and Stephen said these are both great, why not use both? So one became the main theme, the other the bridge.

[Chen G. 3,943]

On 29.5.2018 at 6:43 PM, Stefancos said:

Technically Raiders March consists of two themes. It was Spielberg who advised JW to just use both. 

 

Yeah, but since they were both alternates of each other, they end up serving the same leitmotivic purpose so you can't really think of them as two separate themes (in the leitmotivic sense) anymore.

 

As Spielberg himself said: one is the main theme, and the other is the bridge.

[The Five Tones 302]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, but since they were both alternates of each other, they end up serving the same leitmotivic purpose so you can't really think of them as two separate themes (in the leitmotivic sense) anymore.

 

As Spielberg himself said: one is the main theme, and the other is the bridge.

Spielberg is right of course, but why not consider them Indy A and Indy B just as with Luke? The B seems to have its own life in cues like Desert Chase.

[Chen G. 3,943]

But, having been conceived as an alternate to the main theme, it doesn’t have its own narrative purpose. In Luke’s case, the secondary theme is more lyrical and evokes his adventures and perhaps even his softer side.

 

With Indy it’s just an Indy theme, and than...another one. So there's no narrative justification to refer to them as separate leitmotives.

[The Five Tones 302]

Perhaps, but in this case it's the harder working of the two themes, more Indy on the ropes. The graceful 3-4-5 opening of Indy A becomes a more angular 3-5-4 in B (or vv in terms of composing timeline). Indy A is 8 measures long (10 with the ending), and Indy B 14 measures. Both have strong melody but also a strong harmonic progression, and the B has a more push and pull character on both counts. I guess given my comments about Luke I'm still going to say I see it ultimately as one piece with a main part and a long, complex bridge, while happily inviting debate.

[Chen G. 3,943]

No argument, although it is interesting subject to discuss.

 

Like I said elsewhere, those longer themes are tricky to dissect (from the standpoint of a leitmotif-oriented analysis) and there's a lot of subjectivity there.

[Josh500 1,615]

18 hours ago, Chen G. said:

....and there's a lot of subjectivity there.

 

I think this is all subjectivity. There's no accounting for taste, after all.

[DrTenma 116]

I voted for 'The Rebellion is Reborn', I enjoy both themes there more. I think that Rose Theme is quite good and very close to the Williams of the 80s style. I also like 'The Adventures of Han', that also has a 80s-adventure-theme-flavour but... It hasn't grow on me yet.

[MrScratch 294]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:10 AM, DrTenma said:

I voted for 'The Rebellion is Reborn', I enjoy both themes there more. I think that Rose Theme is quite good and very close to the Williams of the 80s style. I also like 'The Adventures of Han', that also has a 80s-adventure-theme-flavour but... It hasn't grow on me yet.

 

This.

[crlbrg 381]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:33 AM, filmmusic said:

I think the theme itself, the one at 1.41-1.57 with that harmony, is the best action theme in the tonal language Williams has written since...Duel of fates I think.

And the harmony in 0:57-1:12

[The Five Tones 302]

20 minutes ago, carlborg said:

And the harmony in 0:57-1:12

Yes - a bit of a variation on the B theme, what Falstaff (Lehman) in the Adventures of Han thread called a "free episode."

[Pellaeon 593]

Han Hero Theme

 

Han Searching Theme

 

Each theme fares so much better singly. Thank you.

[Josh500 1,615]

So far, 82 people have voted.... And it's very close. 

 

But I'd say Han is the winner here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I disagree with your conclusion 

[Josh500 1,615]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I disagree with your conclusion 

 

I disagree with the majority too. I personally like Rebellion more.

 

But this is what the people have voted.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I disagree that this is what people voted. Its obviously rigged!

[Josh500 1,615]

Just now, Stefancos said:

I disagree that this is what people voted. Its obviously rigged!

 

Trump won. And now this. Obviously, Russian hackers are at it again. 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, i think Jason alters poll results.

[Josh500 1,615]

Just now, Stefancos said:

No, i think Jason alters poll results.

 

I'm just surprised that 82 people even voted in this poll... Seems like a whole lot.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are even more blind than I thought you were if you believe 82 people voted!

[Josh500 1,615]

10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You are even more blind than I thought you were if you believe 82 people voted!

 

So how many did vote, according to you? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Open your eyes! Its there for you to see if you want to!