Star Wars Disenchantment

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

. I understand the film intended to show a younger Han, but the character did not feel like a younger version of the Han we know.

 

My god. Stop talking about a movie you haven't seen. Han was portrayed pretty damn well, and it DID feel like a young Han that we know. 

Just STFU until you see the movie. 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

After the disgrace that was TLJ

 

Disgrace?  I don't think so. The haters are the MINORITY, not the MAJORITY.  In real life I don't know anyone that disliked it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Many, including Johnson, Abrams, Hidalgo, and Wendig choose to go on the offensive by calling fans stupid, racist and sexist

 

The fans started it by being racist and sexist. I don't see a problem with Lucasfilm here. I see a problem with fans telling KK they want her to drop dead.  Are these your friends or something?

 

I'm just curious, Mattriss, how old are you and where in Texas do you live?

 

Again, http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/poor-marketing-sunk-solo-says-media-analyst?__source=Blastr_Vayner_syfy_Facebook&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=marketingsolo&utm_term=paid&utm_content=link_ad

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

 

My god. Stop talking about a movie you haven't seen. Han was portrayed pretty damn well, and it DID feel like a young Han that we know. 

Just STFU until you see the movie. 

 

 

Disgrace?  Didn't it make millions of dollars?  The haters are the MINORITY, not the MAJORITY. 

 

The fans I trust disagree. I have no urge to see Solo, which I have learned is just an uninspired cash grab that not many asked for.

 

As the sequel to The Force Awakens, Episode 8 was always going to be profitable. But remember, it made about 36% less at the box office than TFA... and far fewer toy and DVD sales.

 

Face it, any film that rips the fandom apart is a "disgrace". Rian Johnson knew what he was doing... and spends his days calling upset fans "manbabies". He's a disgrace, too.

 

People don't have to "hate" it for it to affect their future plans concerning Star Wars. The film turned-off a lot of people from the franchise - so much so that they will avoid seeing another Star Wars film until they've heard that the direction/leadership has changed. If you think this mentality describes an insignificant minority, you are wrong. The 'disenchanted TLJ viewers skipping Solo' is one of the main reasons it had an embarrassing showing.

 

Think about it... What if The Last Jedi had been widely accepted and praised? Solo would have easily made Rogue One numbers. Solo is on track to make less than half.

 

There is no such thing as Star Wars Fatigue - only Bad Star Wars Fatigue.

[Chen G. 3,943]

It is something of a failure on the part of The Last Jedi for not being able to walk that (sadly all too fine) line between providing something new and new directions, and still keeping the worried fans at ease. And it certainly has drawbacks for casual fans such as myself, as well.

 

But it’s hardly that bad.

[Demodex 557]

53 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What if The Last Jedi had been widely accepted and praised? Solo would have easily made Rogue One numbers

 

Maybe, maybe not. Did you click the link I posted?

I loved TLJ and even I was not sure about seeing Solo.  My parents liked TLJ by I don't even know if they knew there was a Solo film. I dont think TLJ is hurting Solo nearly as much as other factors.  But keep telling yourself that you're important and that you aren't threatened by women. One day it may be true. 

[Mattris 416]

4 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. Did you click the link I posted?

I loved TLJ and even I was not sure about seeing Solo.  My parents liked TLJ by I don't even know if they knew there was a Solo film. I dont think TLJ is hurting Solo nearly as much as other factors.  But keep telling yourself that you're important and that you aren't threatened by women. One day it may be true. 

 

Other factors, such as?

 

Accusing me of being "threatened by women"? You sound just like J.J. Abrams. The TLJ fails on basic levels of story-telling, which have nothing to do with women being prominent in the film.

[John 2,032]

If you watch The Last Jedi in reverse, it's the story of how Rey puts Luke's broken lightsaber back together, and escapes from Snoke with Kylo Ren, who later ends up shirtless.

[Demodex 557]

I guess first impressions are important. The first thing I ever saw you post was a complaint about strong female leads, flawed male characters, and a feminist agenda. To which I say, even if these are true, who cares?

 

The story telling was fine to me and everyone I know. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Other factors, such as?

 

Click the god damn link I provided. 

[Mattris 416]

On 06/06/2018 at 6:27 PM, Demodex said:

I guess first impressions are important. The first thing I ever saw you post was a complaint about strong female leads, flawed male characters, and a feminist agenda. To which I say, even if these are true, who cares?

 

The story telling was fine to me and everyone I know. 

 

Click the god damn link I provided. 

 

And this was my first impression of you:

 

On 29/05/2018 at 7:50 PM, Demodex said:

 

Bullshit. Offensive to who?  Are you a little insecure in your masculinity or something?  It's a movie. Who cares which characters are male and which are female?

 

Grow a pair. You'll feel better. 

 

At least half the fandom has picked-up on the abundance of poorly-written female leads, flawed male characters, and a feminist/SJW agenda - especially in TLJ. Believe me, these fans care. The story-telling in that film, in particular, was contrived and weak. I'll expand on this later.

 

That article you linked blames Solo's failure on 'bad marketing', specifically waiting until 3 months before the film's release to show the first trailer, a 'teaser' than didn't reveal Han's face very well. I thought that was a fine strategy, considering the TLJ came out only two months before and was so divisive (which the article mentions). Lucasfilm felt that it was best to postpone the marketing campaign... and then just tease at first. Personally, I wasn't that impressed by the trailers. But in a general sense, I perceived was no issues with the marketing - definitely not in its abundance or timing.

 

The vast majority of people weren't aware the production troubles and knew the film was coming. They just decided to skip it for the reasons I previously laid out.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The marketing was terrible. I guess there was no good way to advertise it considering the movie's content. It could be that people didn't want a Han Solo movie with some guy in the role of Harrison Ford.

[publicist 4,643]

Or maybe its returns would have markedly improved in December, who the fuck knows?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Parental outrage at Solo has been so strong, McDonald's has cancelled the Happy Meal tie-in.

[Indianagirl 298]

12 minutes ago, publicist said:

Or maybe its returns would have markedly improved in December, who the fuck knows?

 

There are many variables but one thing is certain....It has nothing to do with a boycott from petty self-entitled little brats who need to crawl back under the rock they came from.

[publicist 4,643]

2 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

Parental outrage at Solo has been so strong, McDonald's has cancelled the Happy Meal tie-in.

 

MCDONALD'S objects to the needless cruelty inflicted by Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi, herewith banning all future SW merchandise from its worldwide operations. Furthermore, free meals will be given to awkward-looking guys carrying 'Death to that awful galaxy-raping Disney regime' protest signs indefinitely.

[Arpy 4,145]

Back in my day you'd get a meal with your toy. These days the toy is the meal!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

The vast majority of people weren't aware the production troubles and knew the film was coming. They just decided to skip it for the reasons I previously laid out.

I don't know of a single person that didn't know about the production troubles. Me thinks you're just pulling these "reasons" out of your butt.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I don't know of a single person that didn't know about the production troubles. Me thinks you're just pulling these "reasons" out of your butt.

 

Most Star Wars fans knew about the production troubles - but not most the general audience / casual movie-goers. And for even those that did know, it wasn't a top reason for skipping the film.

 

I made up those 'reasons' myself, and I stand by them.

 

To get a snap-shot of the public perception of this latest SW going-on, read the comments section of these recent Yahoo articles and tell me I don't have an accurate read on the fans / overall situation:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-star-wars-apos-director-082657243.html

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/m/65ee2af7-d8ee-3e44-a9fa-e7e0b63e09f4/ss_rumor%3A-kathleen-kennedy.html

[Arpy 4,145]

How do you know the general audience wasn't aware of the production woes?

[leeallen01 2,133]

I hope Giacchino scores the inevitable collapse of Disney's Star Wars.

 

1. A New Hope Remake Awakens

2. Rogue One Bit Of Hope

3. The Last Rian Johnson Film

4. Kathleen, Kathleen, Kathleen, Kathleeeeeeen, I'm Begging You, Please Don't Take My Han.

5. So-Low: A Box Office Story

6. Hey Mickey, You're So Fine, You're So Fine You Ruined My Childhood.

 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

At least half the fandom has picked-up on the abundance of strong female leads, flawed male characters, and a feminist/SJW agenda, especially in TLJ. Believe me, these fans care. The story-telling in that film, in particular, was contrived and weak. I'll expand on this later.

 

Disney's Star Wars films are still predominantly male-casted (appropriately so, for action movies). There are a couple of female characters at the forefront, but to my mind leads are less of an issue because we accept that they are exceptional by virtue of being main characters.

 

As for "flawed" - I think that holds true to all the characters in the two movies (I can't be bothered to analyse the spinoffs). Rey maybe too good at too many things, but in terms of her internal state she is full of insecurity and incredulity at her own capabilities and about her future. In The Last Jedi in particular she's kind of naive, too, falling right into Kylo Ren's plan thinking he might turn sides.

 

I think the real issue fans have with The Last Jedi, whether they've managed to put it into words or not, comes down to how irreverant it is in the way it subverts the Star Wars "formula", to the point of almost parodizing Star Wars at times. Being a casual fan if at all, I don't mind that nearly as much, but it is a fair point to bring up.

 

[Demodex 557]

I stand by what I said. You need to grow a pair and not be bothered by strong females. 

 

I hope KK doesn't step down.  I actually worry that if she does then Episode 9 will undo everything I loved about TLJ. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

I don't think anyone's bothered by strong female characters, per se. I think some people feel that the way such characters come about is a contrived one. I certainly don't feel that way about Rey or even Rose and Holdo, but it is a discussion worth having.

 

Again, to me its more an issue with the faces filling the background than it is with the leads. Getting the cast of these kinds of films to reflect real-world demographics needn't be something to strive to.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

50/50 reprethentation.

[Demodex 557]

BTW, if anyone thinks I'm being too hard on our little Mattriss then let me know. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Don't be naive. The law doesn't apply to people like him... or us.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

BTW, if anyone thinks I'm being too hard on our little Mattriss then let me know. 

 

Well I'd be happy if you'd both shut the f*ck up.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

2 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

Don't be naive. The law doesn't apply to people like him... or us.

 

Wrong on both counts.

[Arpy 4,145]

Twice the pride, double the fall.

[Demodex 557]

28 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Well I'd be happy if you'd both shut the f*ck up.

 

Alrighty then

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Anyway, back to discussing what's really important here...

 

[John 2,032]

Nice coffee maker!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I wouldn't know, I don't drink coffee. Orange juice every morning for me!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

While you've been getting coffee for an hour, I've been digging a big hole in the middle of the street!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,499]

1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said:

Anyway, back to discussing what's really important here...

 

 

What your pussy got to do with the price of carrots?

 

 

 

This is, possibly, the most entertaining and silly thread. A bunch of fanboys getting all in a lather, about a film that they cannot possibly do anything to change? What's that about?

When are we going to learn that all our opinions about our films, and OSTs, and music, don't amount to a hill o' beans?

Were all pissing against the wind.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

@kaseykockroach, which one's you?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Nothing like urinating in the open air.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

@kaseykockroach, which one's you?

I'm the non-cute non-furry one who's going nuts waiting for Fallen Kingdom. It's not fair, the UK and such seeing it before I do..

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

4 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

I'm the non-cute non-furry one who's going nuts waiting for Fallen Kingdom. It's not fair, the UK and such seeing it before I do..

 

I'm sure it's bad.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Vot you are all doink is bad. I vont you to know zis.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm sure it's bad.

Bad at not making me happy! Monster movies suck at not making me depressed! Shame on them!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Solo review:

 

 

This is the future of JWFan. Text is dead.

1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said:

It's not fair

 

All mentors have a way of seeing more of our faults than we like. It's the only way we grow.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

One.. ugly...mothrrfucker!

[Mattris 416]

On 07/06/2018 at 2:57 AM, Arpy said:

How do you know the general audience wasn't aware of the production woes?

 

I'm sure some were aware, but do you really think that affected many people's decision to see Solo or not?

 

On the other hand, hearing that the director of the divisive/terrible TLJ (as well as other Lucasfilm employees) is cursing at and name-calling fans (and that the movie is mediocre and has an SJW droid and 'pansexual' Lando) will be much more influential in their decision.

 

Another truth-bomb video:

 

 

[SF1_freeze 131]

21 hours ago, Demodex said:

BTW, if anyone thinks I'm being too hard on our little Mattriss then let me know. 

 

I agree with a lot of Mattris points (as mentioned in the SOLO thread) and don't get yours at all Demodex...

 

I mean you said a few posts above regarding TLJ that "The story telling was fine to me and everyone I know."

Did you all read the novel Bloodline first before watching TLJ because without its shitty explanations on the backstory you have no clue about the real state of the galaxy during the films TFA and TLJ. (the crawls didnt explain a thing, they made it even more confusing)

How can the storytelling be fine if you need countless of tie in books (that no casual viewer will ever read) to get any idea whats going on in the galaxy.

It of course doesn't help that the explanations on the First Order, Resistance and New Republic are incredibly idiotic and moronic and are easily reaching SW parody level.

 

It also didn't leave a good impression that you avoided all the valid discussion points about the trainwreck of a backstory and worldbuilding of TLJ.

So i guess you just don't care for movies going deeper and making sense within itself and more importantly within a franchise of 7 previous films...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

3 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

 

I agree with a lot of Mattris points (as mentioned in the SOLO thread) and don't get yours at all Demodex...

 

I mean you said a few posts above regarding TLJ that "The story telling was fine to me and everyone I know."

Did you all read the novel Bloodline first before watching TLJ because without its shitty explanations on the backstory you have no clue about the real state of the galaxy during the films TFA and TLJ. (the crawls didnt explain a thing, they made it even more confusing)

How can the storytelling be fine if you need countless of tie in books (that no casual viewer will ever read) to get any idea whats going on in the galaxy.

It of course doesn't help that the explanations on the First Order, Resistance and New Republic are incredible idiotic and moronic and are easily reaching SW parody level.

 

It also didn't leave a good impression that you avoided all the valid discussion points about the trainwreck of a backstory and worldbuilding of TLJ.

So i guess you just don't care for movies going deeper and making sense within itself and more importantly within a franchise of 7 previous films...

 

Incel!

[Chen G. 3,943]

18 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

without its shitty explanations on the backstory you have no clue about the real state of the galaxy during the films TFA and TLJ.

 

WE  DON'T  CARE  ABOUT  THE  STATE  OF  THE  FRIGGIN'  GALAXY! 

 

We care about the story of the characters. The state of the Galaxy is the background, or the stage, upon which this story takes place. Nothing less, nothing more. You can't make a movie about a fictional world: otherwise, you'd have mockumentaries set in the Naboo, which you don't have.

 

Star Wars isn't about the galaxy far-far away - its in it. 

 

Besides, it doesn't take a lot of thinking to fill in the blanks: Clealry not all the Imperial Forces were defeated, and the surviving Imperials became The First Order. Simple. That's all we need. We don't want a 100-page essay about galactic politics for a text crawl.

 

 

[SF1_freeze 131]

14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

WE  DON'T  CARE  ABOUT  THE  STATE  OF  THE  FRIGGIN'  GALAXY! 

 

We care about the story being told and the characters involed in that story. The state of the Galaxy is the background, or the stage, upon which the story of the indivdual characters takes place. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

Besides, it doesn't take a lot of thinking to fill in the blanks: Clealr,y not all the Imperial Forces were defeated, and the surviving Imperials became The First Order. Simple.

 

 

 

Who is we? All the other superficially/easily entertained kids who like the Transformer Movies and don't care, if a movie makes sense or not cause for them the backstory and worldbuilding is just there as an unimportant brainless backdrop?

 

People and especially fans of course do care deeply about that. If the stage is rotten, badly constructed and makes no sense at all no character story line can be taken serious.

 

Opinions like yours justify all the plot hole ridden lazy ass movies Hollywood produces nowadays. And people like you that are that superficially/easily entertained (because the characters are sooooo good) support this low class style of moviemaking. Shame on that!

 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

24 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said:

for them the backstory and worldbuilding is just there as an unimportant brainless backdrop?

 

Backstory is for characters, not for the world itself. As for "world-building", a good movie has none. It tells the audience only what they need to know to understand the story being told. Maybe the occasional flourish like Han recalling off-screen adventures in The Empire Strikes Back, but no more than that.

 

I'm not saying the stage isn't important - but we shouldn't expect our movies to get all but bogged down in the staging, as you would suggest.

[Demodex 557]

Seriously. It's a Star Wars movie. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on.  ANH didn't tell us much about the galaxy outside of the opening crawl. 

I hate mindless Hollywood movies as much as you do. No, I didn't like the Transformer movies. I hardly even see movies in theaters except for Star Wars. 

 

I read Bloodlines after I saw TLJ, I think. I don't think it told me anything that I needed to know to understand what are essentially kids movies.  I seriously doubt that all my friends that enjoyed the movies read any of the novels. 

 

Since I'm not a child that needs spoonfed, I really loved TLJ. 

[mstrox 6,647]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

WE  DON'T  CARE  ABOUT  THE  STATE  OF  THE  FRIGGIN'  GALAXY! 

 

Oh dang I just had to like a Chen post.............where did this come from?

 

The State of the Galaxy is setting, not story.  TFA was about Rey's journey to find a family that wouldn't reject her and Finn's journey to find a someone he cared about.  TLJ was about Rey's journey to self actualization, Finn's journey to find a cause worth fighting for, and Poe learning hard lessons about leadership.  Everything going on around them pins them into space opera territory.  The nitty-gritty details will be filled in with supplemental media, like they have been for decades.

 

I haven't read Bloodline (or any other significantly post-ROTJ fiction, except for the Poe Dameron comics and the Shattered Empire comics, neither of which really deals with the political machinations of the galaxy).  Lucas in his lesser years did a lot of extreme worldbuilding on the political side of the galaxy, and in the process the characters' stories got lost and the movies got boooooring.  His work The Clone Wars series played better than the prequels in that regard, but even then the most interesting stuff in that series dealt with space opera melodrama and adventure.