Star Wars Disenchantment

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

55 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You tell me?

 

Gamergate?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Yes, I've had Mattris on ignore for awhile now. He doesn't post pictures of pretty girls, so he's useless to me.

23 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

@kaseykockroach do you have Mattris on ignore? Ha!

 

This thread is like a debate club: Mattris always the minority. 

Nothing to say about Star Wars anymore, except the toys are great.

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

58 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Is there much more to debate though?

 

But what is art?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

1 minute ago, TGP said:

 

But what is art?

This is.

[publicist 4,643]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Art!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

45 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Fuck Damien Hirst!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I just stick with the prequels.

 

Revenge of the Sith is the best one.

[John 2,032]

This thread is getting worse all the time.

[SteveMc 2,674]

It will consume JWFan!

A black hole!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

17 minutes ago, John said:

This thread is getting worse all the time.

 

Am I going down a path you can't follow?

[John 2,032]

2 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Am I going down a path you can't follow?

 

We live in a real world, come back to it. You’re studying to become a Jedi, I’m… I’m a senator.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Ew, movie quotes!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I have waited a long time for this moment. My little JWFans.

 

Heh heh ha ha ha ha ha haaaa!

[Arpy 4,145]

Mattris will become more powerful than either of us! *Thrusts lightsaber into JWFans*

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Does anyone actually like Star Wars, or do we just pretend to enjoy it just to be polite?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I love it. The prize money would more than pay for the parts they need.

[Mattris 416]

On 11/06/2018 at 2:04 AM, Stefancos said:

If all this "fan" backlash means Lucasfilm will go and and just make "safe" Star Wars film that don't take any changes or venture out of the well tradden SW comfort zone, yes then they will have ruined the franchise for the average movie goer.

 

Of course Solo played everything quite save and the "fans" didnt like that either, so what do i know?

 

On 11/06/2018 at 2:09 AM, Chen G. said:

The Last Jedi did well enough, commercially, for Lucasfilm to not get too discouraged. Its Solo, the safe-choice, that's failed; and that wasn't because it was safe or innovative but because it (appearantly) sucked.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 2:11 AM, Stefancos said:

But that's just the thing. It didnt suck! It was perfectly fine for what it was.

 

To be well received and successful, these movies absolutely have to be written well. It's never 'safe' to re-cast a beloved character (Han Solo) and feature him in a mediocre film that not many wanted. Most fans and moviegoers are hoping for more than just "fine" from Star Wars. Anything less will be disappointing and/or unacceptable.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 2:18 AM, Arpy said:

The critics loved TLJ, a majority of people whom I know and are casual fans liked it. It's when I read facebook or youtube comments, or here on this forum that there's this negative sentimentality towards the film.

 

Conspiracy theorists will say 'but Disney paid the critics'. So when the reviews I read gave an honest opinion of the film, revealing some of the flaws we've all been talking about here and agree on, they're paid too?

 

I see red flags everywhere when I look at he disparity between the critics' and audiences' TLJ scores on Rotten Tomatoes. While I don't think Disney literally 'paid the critics', there is a friendship / scratch-each-others'-backs mentality in those circles.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 3:27 AM, Arpy said:

@Mattris If Kennedy steps down, I don't see things changing, I don't see how the supposed failure rests at her feet either, it's just the hit and miss nature of these massive tentpole blockbusters. Even directors and producers with the best intentions creatively will make mistakes.

 

I would argue the production woes surrounding the spin-off films aren't to be taken so naively as some beacon of a sinking ship, it's damage control and course correction for one of the most beloved and biggest franchises ever.

 

With the deepest pockets of any film studio in the world and ownership of "one of the most beloved and biggest franchises ever", Disney should not be making Star Wars movies with a "hit and miss nature". They have absolutely no excuse for making mediocre films, with poor writing, resulting in the division of the fandom.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 4:59 AM, Arpy said:

You just said earlier it was a SJW/feminist issue...

 

The issue is that Kennedy is attempting to further her SJW/feminist agenda using Star Wars as the vehicle. Unfortunately for her, this tactic is not working out.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 5:07 AM, Chen G. said:

I would disapprove of a feminist agenda infused into tentpole blockbusters as much as the next guy, but I really don't see your case when it refers specifically to these latest Star Wars films. There are three female characters in a film with quite a big cast. Its really not an issue.

 

Oh, there are storytelling issues with all these films all right, but for me personally none of them are that substantial.

 

I don't have an issue with the number of women in the film. My issue is that the two women (introduced in TLJ) are portrayed as an hindrance to the men while their very existence in the film/story is questionable/unnecessary.

 

To me, the storytelling issues are quite substantial. More on this later.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 5:22 AM, Arpy said:

@Mattris On the point of holding the filmmakers to account or them owing the fans something I think you're being a tad bit disingenuous. They don't owe anyone anything, they're there to make a film and then leave.

You're right, the filmmakers don't owe us anything. And the fans (or anyone) don't owe them anything. If they continue down Agenda Road, Lucasfilm will eventually drive off the cliff... because the people who pay to see their movies will have moved on.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 9:08 AM, Brónach said:

As for "feminist agenda", it's the same as anything else. When you make something your convictions are always going to be there, directly, indirectly, in everything from character design to plot to morals to everywhere. You can't get rid of it. It's like asking Guillermo del Toro to not make movies about monsters; ideally there's always a personality there. But I can't see what so particularly feminist about this one given that it's not an issue in-universe (or at least that's the idea I get from the movies? I don't know). The meta-narrative might be but that'd imply people are actually annoyed about women talking on screen (because that's all it is), which... like... I mean... it's a bad look.

 

Do you honesty think people are "annoyed about women talking on screen"? I thought I made this clear. That's not it at all.

 

If these filmmakers literally can't help themselves from inserting their "feminist agenda" into Star Wars - that a relative few appreciate, mind you - then they are simply the wrong people to be making the films. This is assuming that making great films - that most people like/love, to make the most profit possible - is their goal. To me, it appears this is not their goal. But if it is, then they should be fired due to incompetence.

 

Lucasfilm employees (most notably the directors and head writers) insulting concerned/critiquing fans - and generalizing them as racists and sexists for not liking the films - is disturbing behavior. I don't care if they are directing their comments to the worst people. This is "a bad look." And now, after Kelly Marie Tran has deleted her Instagram posts, the media is spewing the same nonsense.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 9:12 AM, Docteur Qui said:

One thing is certain: George Lucas didn't kill Star Wars, and neither has Kennedy. The "fans" will though.

 

You're blaming the fans for not supporting this poorly-written, agenda-driven rubbish? Sad.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 9:25 AM, John said:

No, you are upset. You do not speak for the majority. Most fans appreciate and enjoy these new movies for what they are, while you sit in your basement grumbling with nachos and anger.

 

You say that, but The Last Jedi experienced a major drop-off at the box office - 36% less than The Force Awakens. Now Solo will end up making less than half that of Rouge One. Toy and home video sales are on the decline. Maybe a significant portion of the general public doesn't notice or care. But Lucasfilm has failed the fans, who most certainly do not "appreciate and enjoy" what's  happening... and have spoken with their wallet.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 10:40 AM, Margo Channing said:

Why does it even matter whether the new movies are good or not? Only the old ones really matter anyway. The new ones are just a bonus.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 12:57 PM, Demodex said:

I didn't notice an SJW/feminist agenda, and neither did anyone else I know. But even if it was there, who cares?  Just enjoy the movie. 

 

Did you ask everyone you know if they noticed an SJW/feminist agenda? After all that I'll posted, do you still not notice it?

 

I care if the new movies are good, and I'm not alone. They represent Star Wars moving forward, and most want them to honor the characters, themes, and spirit of the older films. I want Star Wars to be successful. But I cannot enjoy or support poor-written, agenda-driven movies.

 

On 11/06/2018 at 1:07 PM, Stefancos said:

There's definitely a conserted effort to have strong female characters in these new films, and you can certainly sense something of a strong social message too. The thing is that I for the live of my cannot figure out why this should be a problem?

 

People like this Mattris remind me of the "Male Rights Activists" who called for a boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road because it had too many strong female characters. 

 

Strong female characters in these films are welcome. But just like the male characters, they need to be aptly written and incorporated. Otherwise, their presence seems forced and awkward, especially when they are written to be a constant hindrance to the story. This was an issue in TLJ. Strong social messages are not appreciated the fans, who want to escape to a 'galaxy far, far way' - not be hit in the face with identity politics and feminism. This is Star Wars - not "Social Justice Wars".

 

On 11/06/2018 at 1:43 PM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Nothing to say about Star Wars anymore, except the toys are great.

 

I've heard some of the toys are great, but sales are way down.

[Arpy 4,145]

There's a trend I see of late that isn't particularly new, but perhaps more prominent now, of the disparity or divide between audiences and critics. Naturally, critics are paid to write and they often foist snobbish opinions, but I have always valued the opinions of critics who have devoted their time, study and livelihood to providing criticism and critique from an academic perspective, over the general audiences who, quite frankly, are a mess of people who don't give a fuck about filmmaking or know what it is exactly what they want.

 

The job of the critic has always been to act as an intermediary to parse film language from the lofty heights of academia to the general audiences, like a translator and critique the work as a piece of literature that has the conventions of layout, structure, plot, pace, thematic integrity etc. For some time film criticism was held in a positive light until, with the phenomenon of  YouTube the gap between critic and audience has lessened, but as a consequence, widened by virtue of critics featured in news publications and printmedia being viewed as dinosaurs, outdated, outdone.

 

When a critic, or swathes of critics hold a view that is contrary to popular audience opinion, they're demonized as being 'out of touch'. Yet, when they find common ground in praising/disliking what popular audience opinion dictates, they're praised and shared around as paragons, exemplars with all that is right with film criticism.

 

My bottom line is that I feel the general audiences and public opinion are fickle.

 

 

But back to @Mattris no one is likely to move on from Star Wars, generations have lived and breathed it for almost half a century now. If the movies prove unsuccessful, there'll be something to fill it's place, and I'm not adverse to the notion of Star Wars going into that good night, I think everything has its time and place and many I feel will have gained something from the multiple trilogies. Quite similar in a sense to my feelings after Revenge of the Sith was over, I embraced what I loved and got over what I hated and took what I wanted from those films...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I care if the new movies are good, and I'm not alone. They represent Star Wars moving forward, and most want them to honor the characters, themes, and spirit of the older films. I want Star Wars to be successful. But I cannot enjoy poor-written, agenda-driven movies... and absolutely will not support them.

 

 

If that's the case, judging by your circular rants in this thread, it sounds like new Star Wars is a write off. So why not move on? Plenty of people have moved on from The Simpsons despite it still being produced - they just can't be arsed watching it anymore, but you don't see relentless ranting about it online (that stopped years ago). But maybe timing is at play here - SW fans feel like they're breaking up with a lover, which for some people results in long, angry (and futile) rant letters until they finally give up and pack up.

[John 2,032]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

You say that, but The Last Jedi experienced a major drop-off at the box office - 36% less than The Force Awakens.

 

Regardless of your own personal feelings on the movie, please tell me how being the highest grossing movie of the year is "underperforming." Yes, it made less than TFA's total of 2 billion, but was anyone expecting it to make more than that? It's a common trend for the second film in a trilogy to make less than its predecessor.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Now Solo will end up making less than half that of Rouge One.

 

Had Solo been released in December, it would've made what a typical Marvel flick does; 800 million or so. Lucasfilm picked a really bad release date for the movie, and it struggled to perform alongside other tentpole movies that were playing at the time (Infinity War, Deadpool 2) Also, box office reception ≠ overall quality. Solo was a solid, entertaining movie with some really good performances, and most people I've met on the internet and social media agree. If you're a fan of the pre-Disney canon and the EU, it sounds like you'd love Solo, but your loss, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Toy and home video sales are on the decline.

 

There weren’t a whole lot of new characters with what Kenner used to call toyetic qualities. Other toy lines are slumping, so it’s not just Star Wars. All the clickbait articles I’ve seen thus far have been pushing the same TLJ was a flop crap and pointing at toy sales as proof.

 

When you see six year-olds with their faces buried in the digital devices in their hands already, who’s left that wants to play with action figures these days?

 

_{^ I plagiarized that bit, by the way.}

[Demodex 557]

If you don't like the new ones then don't watch them. People bitched about the prequels too, and they moved on. 

 

Episodes 4-6 will always be great despite whether you hate the PT or the ST. They didn't ruin Star Wars because the OT will always be great fun. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

This is outrageous.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

@Mattris you are fighting a losing battle. I'm impressed you've held out this long, and part of me respects your commitment. But it's time to call it in. You're only going to cause yourself more emotional distress.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

33 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

This is outrageous.

 

How can you like The Last Jedi and not be a Star Wars fan?

[Arpy 4,145]

@Mattris Perhaps on other areas, we can see eye-to-eye and I'll admit this discussion has been very confrontational and reactionary.

 

Let's get past this little roadblock and move on to other inane topics!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I also stopped watching new episodes of The Angry Video Game Nerd because I felt the show had lost its edge and the humour felt forced. Sometimes these things just die off. I still rewatch the old episodes routinely though. But bloody hell, there's no point in ranting about what it could have been. This is the problem with SW fandom, a sense of entitlement. Whatever the feminithts have done to the new movies, it's nowhere near as bad as George Lucas holding the original Original Trilogy in moratorium indefinitely. The prequels are still intact though and I at least get some kitsch value from those.

[John 2,032]

Relevant post:

 

[Arpy 4,145]

I still enjoy the current AVGN reviews, I don't get the impression the humor felt forced, maybe there's only so much shit one guy can say and apply that to hundreds of shitty games.

1 hour ago, Margo Channing said:

I also stopped watching new episodes of The Angry Video Game Nerd because I felt the show had lost its edge and the humour felt forced.

 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I'll at least take AVGN over Nostalgia Critic any day.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

20 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I still enjoy the current AVGN reviews, I don't get the impression the humor felt forced, maybe there's only so much shit one guy can say and apply that to hundreds of shitty games.

 

 

It's not just the AVGN reviews, I also find those lengthy vids where he's playing games with Mike and other guests boring. His movie reviews aren't as good as they used to be either. But here's the thing, many of those older movie/TV show reviews are no longer available on his YouTube channel, so I can't even go back to those unless I try to view them on his official website, which uses some online video player that's almost impossible. Ugh.

[Holko 9,519]

Youtube copyright policies.

 

I think his best output lately was that quick short horror series where he explored weird stuff - why is there a piece of cardboard in Dracula, what the hell is the lantern man in Phantom... - while going much beyond these premises and explaining things about filmmaking.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Tall chicks and one miniature.

 

 

[Mattris 416]

18 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

If that's the case, judging by your circular rants in this thread, it sounds like new Star Wars is a write off. So why not move on? Plenty of people have moved on from The Simpsons despite it still being produced - they just can't be arsed watching it anymore, but you don't see relentless ranting about it online (that stopped years ago). But maybe timing is at play here - SW fans feel like they're breaking up with a lover, which for some people results in long, angry (and futile) rant letters until they finally give up and pack up.

 

It's possible that Episode 9 can salvage the trilogy. But I won't hold my breath. Some SW fans may feel like they're breaking up with a lover. But not me. I realize and accept that Star Wars is under new management. And these people are clearly having a tough time of it. Lucasfilm is a business that requires fan support (money), so we'll see how things shake down in time.

 

The new Star Wars isn't a complete write-off because of (what will be) nearly 8 hours of new John Williams music. This will always bind us together. 

 

18 hours ago, John said:

Regardless of your own personal feelings on the movie, please tell me how being the highest grossing movie of the year is "underperforming." Yes, it made less than TFA's total of 2 billion, but was anyone expecting it to make more than that? It's a common trend for the second film in a trilogy to make less than its predecessor.

 

Had Solo been released in December, it would've made what a typical Marvel flick does; 800 million or so. Lucasfilm picked a really bad release date for the movie, and it struggled to perform alongside other tentpole movies that were playing at the time (Infinity War, Deadpool 2) Also, box office reception ≠ overall quality. Solo was a solid, entertaining movie with some really good performances, and most people I've met on the internet and social media agree. If you're a fan of the pre-Disney canon and the EU, it sounds like you'd love Solo, but your loss, I guess.

 

 

There weren’t a whole lot of new characters with what Kenner used to call toyetic qualities. Other toy lines are slumping, so it’s not just Star Wars. All the clickbait articles I’ve seen thus far have been pushing the same TLJ was a flop crap and pointing at toy sales as proof.

 

When you see six year-olds with their faces buried in the digital devices in their hands already, who’s left that wants to play with action figures these days?

 

The sequel to TFA was always going to do 'well'. But $700 million less is quite a drop-off. Many people were disappointed and only saw it once. Plus far fewer home video sales - about about a 1/3 of TFA.

 

I agree that Solo would have made more had it been released in December. But I doubt it would've made $800 million. To say that it "struggled to perform alongside other tentpole movies that were playing at the time" is a cop-out. A Star Wars film should never struggle. I will only see Solo if I see major improvements from Lucasfilm.

 

If the movies and characters were more interesting (written better), toy sales would be better... from all age groups.

 

18 hours ago, Demodex said:

If you don't like the new ones then don't watch them. People bitched about the prequels too, and they moved on. 

 

Episodes 4-6 will always be great despite whether you hate the PT or the ST. They didn't ruin Star Wars because the OT will always be great fun. 

 

Probably the best thing you've said, Demodex.

 

17 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

@Mattris you are fighting a losing battle. I'm impressed you've held out this long, and part of me respects your commitment. But it's time to call it in. You're only going to cause yourself more emotional distress.

 

Losing? I responded to your arguments to my statements, but you haven't responded. And not many others have been able to dispute my statements, which I think have enlightened (or perhaps, changed) some of you in some way. This debate is not distressing. It's sort of therapeutic to get my thoughts in writing.

 

17 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Mattris Perhaps on other areas, we can see eye-to-eye and I'll admit this discussion has been very confrontational and reactionary.

 

Let's get past this little roadblock and move on to other inane topics!

 

Soon. I have a few more points to make.  

[Arpy 4,145]

@Mattris You came in here with some strident views that were wrapped up in some butthurt bullshit about Kathleen Kennedy pulling some SJW/Feminist agenda and conflated those views for what you believed everyone should feel about Solo and The Last Jedi. 

 

The intense backlash and criticism is unfair and absurd, seriously, absolutely NONE of the SJW bullshit was evident in the films!

33 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Losing? I responded to your arguments to my statements, but you haven't responded. And not many others have been able to dispute my statements, which I think have enlightened some of you in some way. This debate is not distressing. It's sort of therapeutic to get my thoughts in writing.

 

It's like walking through a minefield trying to dispute your arguments - a minefield of obscurantism and emotional appeals dressed up as objective fact. You're not losing Mattris, you lost before you entered this discussion hoping to drop some bombshell facts about just how bad these Disney films are and how Star Wars is going to die.

 

'but, but, buh, buh, it didn't make teh monies, it failed at the box office, Kennedy should've chosen better directors or not let these scripts get through, and not push some feminist SJW agenda...' 

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Hey, look on the bright side... Disney might throw a Hail Mary and release the unaltered Original Trilogy in 4K to appease some wandering fans.

[Holko 9,519]

We'll have to kill both George and the evil creature living in his necksack for that to happen.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Well look on the bright side, we won't have to wait very long.

[Guest]

The unaltered OT would take tooo long to reconstruct... they'll just release the 4K masters of the Blu-Ray set that they already have on hand.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

If it takes a few years, it's not so bad. A 4K release of the existing masters commercially available would be a 4K blow-up since they're just 2K masters.

[Holko 9,519]

14 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

The unaltered OT would take tooo long to reconstruct... they'll just release the 4K masters of the Blu-Ray set that they already have on hand.

 

We know they have 4K scans of the film strips - if it's only the SE, they'll just have to scan the discarded OT segments and cut them back in, if they have even the discarded material put aside, they don't even have to scan. But somehow I have a feeling that if they have a preservation department, they surely assembled the original films by now for their own pleasure and for release when it'll finally be allowed.

And even if they would have to forage sources (although they still have the fucking dailies for STAR WARS with multiple angles of the raw Leia hologram element for example, so the sut out parts surely did not end up in the trash) - yes, TN1, Harmy and whoever was behind 4k77 worked for years, but they were amateurs on their own with no funding, their own free time, and they were learning software and skills as they went along. The bulk of the time was taken by manual cleanup. I'm sure it wouldn't take a team of professionals with proper funding and guidance more than a year or two for all 3 films.

[Mattris 416]

35 minutes ago, Arpy said:

@Mattris You came in here with some strident views that were wrapped up in some butthurt bullshit about Kathleen Kennedy pulling some SJW/Feminist agenda and conflated those views for what you believed everyone should feel about Solo and The Last Jedi. 

 

The intense backlash and criticism is unfair and absurd, seriously, absolutely NONE of the SJW bullshit was evident in the films!

It's like walking through a minefield trying to dispute your arguments - a minefield of obscurantism and emotional appeals dressed up as objective fact. You're not losing Mattris, you lost before you entered this discussion hoping to drop some bombshell facts about just how bad these Disney films are and how Star Wars is going to die.

 

'but, but, buh, buh, it didn't make teh monies, it failed at the box office, Kennedy should've chosen better directors or not let these scripts get through, and not push some feminist SJW agenda...' 

 

Mocking me or being rude won't get you anywhere. I provided facts and opinions to explain my points and theories, which are based on what I have observed in the films and among the fans. I may be the minority in this discussion, but I am not alone in my thinking. Far from it. I stand by what I've said.

 

"The intense backlash and criticism is unfair and absurd, seriously, absolutely NONE of the SJW bullshit was evident in the films!"  I wholeheartedly disagree with this entire statement. Did you notice Rose Tico in The Last Jedi? She is the human definition of a social justice warrior.

 

Star Wars will never "die". I'm confident that the ship will course-correct.

[Arpy 4,145]

She highlighted the slavery, the animal abuse and the corrupt nature of the war, that's not being an SJW, that's being a fucking human being.

[Guest]

Most of the people who scream "SJW!" about everything are probably just Russian bots; they're not human, so they can't understand what it is to be human.

[Arpy 4,145]

There is a real problem concerning SJW's, just not in Star Wars.

[Holko 9,519]

If she were an SJW, she would've made a scene about the gender pronouns of hermaphroditic alien species who can't speak Basic and couldn't care less what they're called. Or how it's offensive to call Ithorians Hammerheads when they're much more concerned with Ithorian on Ithorian violence.

[Brónach 1,302]

10 hours ago, Mattris said:

If these filmmakers literally can't help themselves from inserting their "feminist agenda" into Star Wars - that a relative few appreciate, mind you - then they are simply the wrong people to be making the films. This is assuming that making great films - that most people like/love, to make the most profit possible - is their goal. To me, it appears this is not their goal. But if it is, then they should be fired due to incompetence.

 

Yes, fire them and hire a bunch of gay women as writers and directors!

 

 

I'm going to say something kinda funny, but: the prequels are a nice go-to guide for a list of stuff appropiate in Star Wars according to Lucas, if you get past the films not working on any level. Everything is there, and I mean everything. I actually wish we'd see the trilogy as originally planned before everyone booed at The Phantom Menace, which included stuff like Padme as a hero and enemy of Anakin (instead of making her disappear from the movies) and so on.

 

8 hours ago, John said:

Regardless of your own personal feelings on the movie, please tell me how being the highest grossing movie of the year is "underperforming." Yes, it made less than TFA's total of 2 billion, but was anyone expecting it to make more than that? It's a common trend for the second film in a trilogy to make less than its predecessor.

 

He talks of the total gross as if "fans" are the ones responsible of it. If the trend is a Star Wars movie each year, it will just estabilize in a lower but constant amount of sold tickets. People will go see the ones they find interesting based on marketing or word of mouth and skip the others. Like with the Marvel movies.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

13 hours ago, John said:

This thread is getting worse all the time.

 

13 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

It will consume JWFan!

A black hole!