Star Wars Disenchantment

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that none of the films in the saga have been perfect, some have been stronger entries than others. Although, the PT has enough flaws to warrant the ill-will it receives; if something has inherent flaws that come through in the final product they deserve to be brought out and openly criticized. 

 

I think the uber-hatred for the PT is superficial on some level. People still consumed those films, were looking forward to the next in the series and found a lot to talk/gripe/love/hate about them. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

[mstrox 6,647]

The prequels aren’t very good.  The Thrawn trilogy and the later Zahn books aren’t very good.  98 percent of the EU isn’t very good.

 

I like them all in some capacity, but I find it hard to believe that Heir to the Empire etc. would hook anybody today. Constant references to the original trilogy. Joruuuuus and Luuuuke.  I mean, it’s better then the Kevin J Anderson books, but it’s never going to be as meaningful in 2018 as it was in the mid 1990s with an absence of ongoing Star Wars content.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Heir to the Empire is boring 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

The Star Wars Holiday Special isn't very good. The Ewoks cartoon isn't very good. The original trilogy isn't very good.

 

Spaceballs is great!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said:

Spaceballs is great

 

*checks thread ti--* Screw it, I'd insult you no matter what thread you posted this in! 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

4 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

*checks thread ti--* Screw it, I'd insult you no matter what thread you posted this in! 

Keep firing, assholes! 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,502]

37 minutes ago, mstrox said:

  98 percent of the EU isn’t very good.

 

I know, Mike, that's why we're leaving! 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Pack your things. We're leaving.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 minutes ago, Richard said:

 

I know, Mike, that's why we're leaving! 

 

Messily too!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,502]

Don't kid yourself. This is bread-and-circuses; its all show, for the masses. The decisions have been made. Listen - truly listen - to what people are saying: "Maybe". "Possibly". "Perhaps". "Might". "Every chance that.." It's garbage.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

*Trash

 

[Arpy 4,145]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

The prequels aren’t very good.  The Thrawn trilogy and the later Zahn books aren’t very good.  98 percent of the EU isn’t very good.

 

I like them all in some capacity, but I find it hard to believe that Heir to the Empire etc. would hook anybody today. Constant references to the original trilogy. Joruuuuus and Luuuuke.  I mean, it’s better then the Kevin J Anderson books, but it’s never going to be as meaningful in 2018 as it was in the mid 1990s with an absence of ongoing Star Wars content.

I liked the idea of Palpatine trying to return in the body of Luke. Just not the idea of Palpatine having created tonnes of clones of himself to keep himself alive!

 

I wonder if the sequel trilogy had a Force Ghost Palpatine instead of Snoke - he could've been goading Kylo Ren into becoming a new 'host' for his Sith Spirit...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You must join me, Kylo Ren... and together... we can revive the Sith!

[Pellaeon 593]

[Chen G. 3,944]

20 hours ago, Arpy said:

and, of course, John Williams' scores - which I believe are more engaging than the sequel trilogy scores thus far.

 

Brother! 

[John 2,032]

Eh, TPM is the only prequel score I would rank above TFA and TLJ.

 

AOTC and ROTS, while good scores, are overly bombastic and fit very poorly with what is actually happening on screen, with ROTS being the worst offender of this.

[Arpy 4,145]

[Chen G. 3,944]

35 minutes ago, John said:

AOTC and ROTS, while good scores, are overly bombastic

 

Better overly bombastic than bearly audible.

 

Not to mention the inherent advantage in Williams having at least some grasp on where the story is going, so he could adds a prescient, melancholy shade to, say, Across the Stars, only for it (well, its B-theme) to be transformed into the lament theme in III - very effective!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

AOTC and ROTS are fantastic scores.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

well, its B-theme) to be transformed into the lament theme in III - very effective!

 

Timestamped tracks, please?

 

On a similar note, I find it surprising that no one mentions Anakin's Theme in "Anakin's Betrayal". Unfortunately I can't provide links at the moment, but it sounds pretty clear and unintentional to me. (And remember, I'm the guy who thinks there's no deliberate connection to Imperial March in The Spark!) Williams did something very very similar with the Jewish Theme in the "Immolation Scene", so there's a precedent for it, too.

[John 2,032]

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Immolation was likely the temp track for Lament.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

9 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

AOTC and ROTS are fantastic scores.

 

They're alright.

[Chen G. 3,944]

7 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Timestamped tracks, please?

 

Just listen to the lament theme - it’s the dominant material in “Anakin’s Betrayal” and “Immolation scene”. It’s clearly an offspring of Across the Stars.

 

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

They're alright.

 

Revenge of the Sith more than Attack of the Clones, I’d say. The latter has no other strong theme to leverage against Across the Stars, so the entire film ends up being an ad nauseam flogging of that theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

ROTS really doesn't have very strong themes

[Chen G. 3,944]

granted, no one is going to hum the lament coming out of the theater, but emotionally - its one of the most affecting pieces of writing in Williams' career, and that says a lot to the caliber of that score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It feels undercooked and remote. Like the destruction of the Jedi does.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's just a schlocky space movie. What were people expecting?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The end of an era?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Every ending has a new beginning.

[A24 4,326]

1 hour ago, Margo Channing said:

What were people expecting?

 

A fun movie to lighten the burdens of life.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

With the lead character killing a load of children.

[Arpy 4,145]

How could you look at Hayden Christensen and think that he's not going to murder someone at some point?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He seems like such a nice guy, it's a wonder why Padme never said to him "I have a boyfriend".

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On 6/29/2018 at 7:11 AM, Margo Channing said:

Why do people here hate the prequels so much?

Because they deserve to be hated.

[Chen G. 3,944]

2 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

Because they deserve to be hated.

 

Few and far between are the films that deserve outright hate, I would say.

 

I, having watched the Star Wars films for the first time only a couple of years ago and having no prior knowledge as to which entries were derided and which were lauded, found the prequels - especially the second one - sorely lacking, but not outright terrible.

 

I also don't like the terminology "THE prequels" and especialy the "ORIGINAL trilogy". One, because to paint the three installments of either trilogy with a single brush is downright impossible: they're very different films. Return of the Jedi is probably closer to The Phantom Menace in terms of filmmaking than it is to Empire Strikes Back, what with its overwrought, multi-storyline-id finale, overuse of rear projection, unfocused narrative, etcetra.

 

Second, because to insinuate that the the original trilogy is just that - original, where the prequels aren't - is...not very accurate. Outside of certain recycled elements (in which Return of the Jedi, from the so-called "original" trilogy, is by far the worst offender pre-Force-Awakens), no other film in the series is less or more "original" than the other.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Idiocy! These terms are absolutely correct. Especially the Prequels.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

ESB is such a dark and disturbing film, you can tell from those low piano rumbles in the final duel, which were so sinister sounding, they were cut from the film, because Lucas and Kirshner found them just that frickin' frightening.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Phantom Menace is such a dramatic film. You can tell from the choir when Darth Krull's battling Obi-Fun Stromboli. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,502]

2 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

ESB is such a dark and disturbing film, you can tell from those low piano rumbles in the final duel, which were so sinister sounding, they were cut from the film, because Lucas and Kirshner found them just that frickin' frightening.

 

Jerry, where is that, on the OST?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

The rumbles are coming from inside the house!

[John 2,032]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I, having watched the Star Wars films for the first time only a couple of years ago and having no prior knowledge as to which entries were derided and which were lauded, found the prequels - especially the second one - sorely lacking, but not outright terrible.

 

No, TPM and AOTC are both truly terrible films, and the truth is, many are still stinging from them. Terribly written, terribly acted, terribly paced, terribly shot, and terribly edited. Their overall plots might be good in theory, but they're executed very poorly.

[mstrox 6,647]

Many people who were young when they saw the prequels love the prequels.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Of course. They're popcorn space movies intended for a young audience. They did their job well. I guarantee that.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

With the rise of social media, we've entered a weird age of nostalgia, where people can easily form communities with people all over the world who loved the same crap they did as a kid, reinforcing the opinions and connections they had towards these things originally. I see this so often with my peers, I tend to feel pretty alienated because of it...I really don't feel the need to talk about some dumb Nickelodeon show I thought was funny at the age of six years old.

[John 2,032]

14 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Of course. They're popcorn space movies intended for a young audience. They did their job well. I guarantee that.

 

When I was a kid playing with my Star Wars action figures and toys, I would imagine scenes like the Jakku junkyard chase from The Force Awakens, or the Darth Vader hallway scene from Rogue One. I certainly didn't imagine a mentally-impaired fish person stepping in animal feces, senate trade negotiations, or awkward romantic scenes.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Dresses like a spider

He looks like a bug

We should all just give him

One big hug

Look out

Hooooooo

Here comes the Spider-Man!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 minutes ago, John said:

 

When I was a kid playing with my Star Wars action figures and toys, I would imagine scenes like the Jakku junkyard chase from The Force Awakens, or the Darth Vader hallway scene from Rogue One. I certainly didn't imagine a mentally-impaired fish person stepping in animal feces, senate trade negotiations, or awkward romantic scenes.

 

When I was a kid, playing with my friend and plastic lightsabers, we would be Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu going on all kinds of adventures. The movies gave us enough of a starting point for us to imagine our own adventures far way from Senate meetings and A-camera/B-camera conversation scenes.