Star Wars Disenchantment

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

7 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

What's R2-D2's screentime in Attack of the Clones (the only good Star Wars movie so far)?

 

Jay, I thought we agreed Drax wasn't allowed any more aliases.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

[Chen G. 3,948]

12 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Off the top of my head, I'd certainly say R2D2 has the most screen time in Star Wars '77 by far. Probably in the neighbourhood of 20 minutes.

 

Yep.

 

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/

[Bespin 8,480]

Ah HA!

 

You listen to me more, you live longer!

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Jay, I thought we agreed Drax wasn't allowed any more aliases.

 

He he he...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I used to have a HUGE crush on Natalie Portman in my high school youth. As in, I used to be about as infatuated with her as I am today with Bryce Dallas Howard. I haven't stopped thinking she's a beauty, my heart's merely moved on.

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

 

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yep.

 

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/

 

So this list tells me Rey was in TFA for 43 minutes, which beats Luke's longest screen time (37:30) in SW 77 by almost 6 minutes. And Jyn Erso's 33 minutes almost ties Luke's TESB/ROTJ screen time of approximately 34 minutes each.

 

Conclusion? It appears that @Mattris's feminist conspiracy was right after all.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Steve McQueen said:

It will never exist for passionate fans like yourself, perhaps, regardless of where they fall on the divide.  But, for more causal filmgoers, I feel things are different.  A Star Wars movie is supposed to be a rather rare event to them, not a central gospel in an overall scripture that must be drawn from daily. 

How much money is made overall is what is important, and the die-hard fans only contribute part of this. 

Overall, despite a couple of missteps, Kennedy has delivered return on investment, and this, more than other considerations, is what lead Iger to decide to keep here on. 

 

After 20 Marvel films in 10 years, does 'Marvel fatigue' exist? It does not. Why is that? The answer: Those movies are generally well received and fans eagerly await the next installment. A significant number of causal filmgoers see them, as well... and keep coming back. Who said 'Star Wars movies are supposed to be a rather rare'? One film a year isn't infrequent enough? The only thing happening "daily" with Star Wars are derogatory comments from Rian Johnson, Pablo Hidlago, and Chuck Wendig on Twitter.

 

"How much money is made overall is what is important... Kennedy has delivered return on investment"

 

Not even close. According to this article, Lucasfilm has only "earned back close to 40% of that purchase price, with collective profits just over $1.5 billion. The $417.5M profit on Last Jedi is -46% from Force Awakens $780.1M." Die-hard fans not seeing the movie multiple times - or skipping it entirely - contributed to most of the drop-off. That article was written before Solo, a Star Wars film that lost the company at least $80M. And toy sales are much lower than expected due to fans disappointment in the movies, (lack of) direction of the property, and disrespect for the fans.

 

"a couple of missteps"

 

- Rebooted Star Wars with a re-hash of the original film - with a far less relateable lead... without interaction between the original 'big three'.

- Fired/replaced multiple directors - some deep into the production of their films.

- The Last Jedi deeply divided the fandom

- Solo bombed badly

- Merchandise sales are down... considerably.

- Allowing prominent Lucasfilm employees to aggressively insult fans on Twitter

- Saying she "looks forward to fans' reactions" at the Solo premiere, but hasn't been seen or heard from since - not even after her contact was renewed.

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

More than delivered. Outside of Solo, every film did comfortably over a billion dollars. That's amazing.

 

I didn't for a moment think she would be let off. No one in their right mind would.

 

What amazing is that Star Wars is in tatters after just four films in 2.5 years. No one in their right mind would have kept her on - much less, extended her contract.

[Chen G. 3,948]

6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

So this list tells me Rey was in TFA for 43 minutes, which beats Luke's longest screen time (37:30) in SW 77 by almost 6 minutes. And Jyn Erso's 33 minutes almost ties Luke's TESB/ROTJ of 34 minutes.

 

<super-pedantic mode>You need to consider the length of the films: Star Wars films got longer and longer as time went by.</super-pedantic mode>

 

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 After 20 Marvel films in 10 years, does 'Marvel fatigue' exist? It does not.

 

It so does!

 

And they're not really comparable franchises, anyway.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Yeah, you have to calculate the screentimes in percentages.

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

🙄

[Chen G. 3,948]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, you have to calculate the screentimes in percentages.

 

Of course removing from your calculation the time taken up by the end-credits. These are considerably longer for the Disney entries than for the original sextet.

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

I took me 20 years, but now, I accept the prequels.

 

For a long time, I thought that it was the worst thing which can happen to Star Wars.

 

So we are in 2018... The prequels... they where not that bad after all!

 

I feel the opposite. The prequels suck compared to TFA and TLJ. I don't know if I'll ever watch them again. 

[Bespin 8,480]

3 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

I feel the opposite. The prequels sick compared to TFA and TLJ. I don't know if I'll ever watch them again. 

 

Oh, you answer me like if I spoke seriously.

 

So cute!!!

[Mattris 416]

Mattris said:

 After 20 Marvel films in 10 years, does 'Marvel fatigue' exist? It does not.

 

7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 It so does!

 

Any fatigue felt by some is not a problem for Disney/Marvel when the films are generally received well by the fans and continue to make healthy profits.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Superhero fatigue is real!

[Demodex 557]

Marvel also has how many actual series?  Iron Man, Captain America, The Avengers, Spider-Man, Ant Man. Plus stand alones like Black Panther and Dr Strange. 

 

Star Wars has a comparitively small cast of characters. You almost can't compare them.  

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

 

42 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

You need to consider the length of the films: Star Wars films got longer and longer as time went by.

 

39 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, you have to calculate the screentimes in percentages.

 

Have either of you two math whizzes considered that maybe Kennedy specifically made TFA/TLJ/Rogue One with longer running times BECAUSE she wanted the female leads to have more screen time and overshadow Luke? 

 

Connect the dots people. Mattris was right! Let loose the Kraken!

 

42 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

<super-pedantic mode>

 

Do you have any other?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Fans receive Marvel movies well. I, on the other hand, don't have a clue what's going on.

 

"Fans" don't receive Star Wars movies well. Everyone else loves the,.

 

What's the matter with us? Can we not look beyond a bunch of movies and live our lives without frivolous unending debate about these things. Surely we are capable of greater things, things that amount to much more than this crude matter. Mattris, I hope you are doing alright otherwise, because it seems you spend so much of your time dwelling on resentment from the past two and a half years in the SW franchise. Find something you love and love the heck out of it, film or score or whatever it may be. The biggest problem I have with you is not just that you focus on the negative, you are the negative. We only ever hear about your dislike for the past four SW films. Join some other conversations bud, strike up some interest elsewhere. As for the movie bashing, I know not what you try to accomplish.

 

Thank you for your consideration in the past weeks and a good evening to you all.

[Mattris 416]

4 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Marvel also has how many actual series?  Iron Man, Captain America, The Avengers, Spider-Man, Ant Man. Plus stand alones like Black Panther.  

 

Star Wars has a comparitively small cast of characters. You almost can't compare them.  

 

Marvel has a 'universe' of films (the MCU), and Lucasfilm has the Star Wars Galaxy. Don't try to complicate things in a sad attempt to disprove my point.

[Demodex 557]

What I said is still true. Marvel could release 10 movies with different casts.  Star Wars is all the same. 

 

Plus I've heard your point a million times. I still don't agree. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

4 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Fans receive Marvel movies well. I, on the other hand, don't have a clue what's going on.

 

"Fans" don't receive Star Wars movies well. Everyone else loves the,.

 

What's the matter with us? Can we not look beyond a bunch of movies and live our lives without frivolous unending debate about these things. Surely we are capable of greater things, things that amount to much more than this crude matter. Mattris, I hope you are doing alright otherwise, because it seems you spend so much of your time dwelling on resentment from the past two and a half years in the SW franchise. Find something you love and love the heck out of it, film or score or whatever it may be. The biggest problem I have with you is not just that you focus on the negative, you are the negative. We only ever hear about your dislike for the past four SW films. Join some other conversations bud, strike up some interest elsewhere. As for the movie bashing, I know not what you try to accomplish.

 

Thank you for your consideration in the past weeks and a good evening to you all.

 

No, good evening to YOU SIR!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

If that was a reference to something then-

 

Ha!

 

If that was you dismissing me from the conversation because you agree with Mattris-

 

Ha!

[Bespin 8,480]

Mattris, I loved these movies!

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

 

1 minute ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

If that was a reference to something then-

 

Ha!

 

If that was you dismissing me from the conversation because you agree with Mattris-

 

Ha!

 

Calm down my good man, it was a compliment.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

7 minutes ago, Demodex said:

What I said is still true. Marvel could release 10 movies with different casts.  Star Wars is all the same. 

 

Plus I've heard your point a million times. I still don't agree. 

 

Maybe he should repeat it again so you will?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Oh, I do try to be as respectable as possible, especially in my illustriousness.

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

42 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What amazing is that Star Wars is in tatters after just four films in 2.5 years. No one in their right mind would have kept her on - much less, extended her contract.

 

Mattris, if I may direct you to the wisdom of a countryman of mine...

 

"A fanatic is someone who won't change his mind and can't change the subject"

Winston Churchill

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I believe he just mobilized the English language...and sent it off to war.

[Mattris 416]

Hi, Jerry. I hope you are doing well, too. As I'm sure you noticed, I took a few weeks break from this topic*... and have been busy with my life outside of JWFan. What I am trying to accomplish here is to convince all of you that my opinions and factual observations are the most reasonable reaction to what is happening with Star Wars. Some of you may only want to see the positive aspects of these films... or to see only their silver linings. Some of you attempt to praise the films - but mostly end up attempting to defend the indefensible - and do not want to admit that they (TLJ in particular) are lazy, disrespectful, or just plain crap.

 

Star Wars is currently on the wrong path - both financially and from the fans' perspective. I concede that some of you will never admit these points, no matter what. But I can be sure that some points I am making have made some impact on all of you.

 

On a positive note, I very much enjoy John Williams' contributions. Although it had too many underdeveloped characters, I thought Rouge One was excellent overall - even more so after I read its novel adaptation and Catalyst. Join some other conversations on JWFan... an excellent idea!

 

* Thanks goes out the person who changed the topic name. Could you please also remove the "Absorb All the Hostility"? We at JWFan are not being hostile... that's Kathleen Kennedy's job!

[John 2,032]

[Mattris 416]

On 9/29/2018 at 5:11 PM, Nick1066 said:

 

Mattris, if I may direct you to the wisdom of a countryman of mine...

 

"A fanatic is someone who won't change his mind and can't change the subject"

Winston Churchill

 

And Nick, if I may direct you to the wisdom of a countryman of mine...

 

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

[SteveMc 2,674]

32 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Fans receive Marvel movies well. I, on the other hand, don't have a clue what's going on.

Same. Actually, I also take issue with how the Marvel movies are made.  We should all be quite fatigued of them by now.  We will be in, say, 10 years time. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,709]

3 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

And Nick, if I may direct you to the wisdom of a countryman of mine...

 

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous that sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

 

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous that sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

LOL. We're talking about Star Wars. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous that sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

And a great quote too, but you missed the mark on the context and relevance part.

[gkgyver 1,645]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

And Nick, if I may direct you to the wisdom of a countryman of mine...

 

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous that sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

... which you need a lot of if you feel the burning desire to watch any current SW or Marvel movie a second time.

Or sometimes one time.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, in steps the outspoken gkygyver, scoffing at the idea of rewatching a Star Wars film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I always love cultural elitism on a forum dedicated to a popular film composer

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Redacted.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Nothing in the world is more dangerous that sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Normally I let you off with your posts and enjoy hearing from you, but this is too much. I've never gone off on anyone in this forum...until now.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. was a marvellous, courageous man who laid his life on the line for equality of humankind. He said this in response to the countless brutalities, persecutions, and injustices he experienced and witnessed, ones that cost countless people their freedoms, and in more than many occasions, their lives. 

 

We're talking about a goddamn series that was originally designed to entertain young boys. Entertainment. Compelling and inspiring entertainment, yes--but entertainment. For you to attempt to use this quote for your pitiful rat's squeal of a debate to convince people they're wrong for liking a --again, godDAMN fantasy series, is offensive, vile, and an absolute slap in the face of men and women such as Dr. King who sacrificed so much to see their fellow humans have a good shot at something we call life.

 

You're saying liking new fucking Star Wars movies is dangerous, is willful ignorance and stupidity, tantamount to what Dr. King was referring to? I'd say you should see yourself in a mirror next time your brain spasms the impulse to utter such filth, but I don't think you'd see a reflection, you sub-human vampire leech.

 

Shut your punk ass mouth up about goddamn, FUCKING Star Wars. We'd all enjoy your presence a lot more that way.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

True. That aspect certainly holds it back from greatness.

 

But as a film its still a joy to watch. Its fun, while still having darker passages. It flows quite nicely (much better than The Last Jedi). The production design is excellent, and the way its photographed is unique and engaging but also doesn't call attention to itself (again unlike The Last Jedi).

 

I agree with all of this.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

More than delivered. Outside of Solo, every film did comfortably over a billion dollars. That's amazing.

 

Honestly, I don't think that's amazing at all. In fact, I would have been shocked if this hadn't happened. The franchise doesn't have to be good anymore to make that kind of money, just good enough.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

I used to have a HUGE crush on Natalie Portman in my high school youth. As in, I used to be about as infatuated with her as I am today with Bryce Dallas Howard. I haven't stopped thinking she's a beauty, my heart's merely moved on.

 

I concur. Back about 15/16 years ago, I'd look forward to whenever she'd do a new photoshoot and she looked beautiful as fuck in AotC. But you don't stay liking the same gals forever I suppose, and crushes wear off as your tastes in the opposite sex evolve. Natalie particularly irks me these days because of her politics, and her ultra skinny frame as seen in movies like Annihilation have prevented me from giving her even a courtesy wank in years.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What would you do for love?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden at JWfan...

[Arpy 4,145]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Some of you attempt to praise the films - but mostly end up attempting to defend the indefensible - and do not want to admit that they (TLJ in particular) are lazy, disrespectful, or just plain crap.

 

Star Wars is currently on the wrong path - both financially and from the fans' perspective. I concede that some of you will never admit these points, no matter what. But I can be sure that some points I am making have made some impact on all of you.

 

 

Isn't that the great thing about opinions, Mattris, that we can all have them and they don't have to be taken as gospel?

 

Just like your insistence Star Wars is going down the drain is your opinion, mine is that Star Wars isn't some golden calf, it's not untouchable. They're films that audiences are going to receive one way or the other that aren't infallible. 

 

What do the complaints of fan-forum dweller have on the millions of children across the world who have come to embrace Star Wars, not to mention the millions of fans spanning multiple generations who still love the franchise and the new films?

 

You're holding up personal complaints and box-office results as the be-all, end-all of the fate of the franchise, judging it based on your standards.

 

Quote

But I can be sure that some points I am making have made some impact on all of you.

Yes, only to piss me off, sometimes laugh, sometimes grit my teeth in exasperation...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

6 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Yes, only to piss me off

 

Was going to say something very similar. Also, his criticisms and dunderheadedness have made me realize I enjoy The Last Jedi even more than I thought, having seen how much I disagreed or didn't mind the complaints Mattris and his ilk have raised. So congratulations, Mattris, you did have an impact on me. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I'm baffled none of you have hit the ignore button on him.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

11 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

I'm baffled none of you have hit the ignore button on him.

 

I make it personal policy to never use it.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I follow a different policy, thank you.