Star Wars Disenchantment

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Grinding the story to a halt - or having a character exist - to make a social statement will only remove the audience from the mentality of escapism and dramatic events in the film.

 

In my experience watching the movie, this did not happen. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

This

 

Quote

having a character exist [merely] to make a social statement

 

didn't happen.

 

This

 

Quote

Grinding the story to a halt.

 

did.

[Demodex 557]

If you say so. 

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Holko 9,499]

what

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Enjoy the read.

[Arpy 4,145]

Quote

The movie beings 

I love it!

[Fabulin 3,510]

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[Score 770]

42 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

So as to make this thread fresh like TLJ's Critic Rotten Tomatoes score, I have prepared a read for you:

 

 

This thread gets better and better every day. Thank you for this one 

[Holko 9,499]

Today it finally reached so-bad-it's-good levels!

[Guest]

I just noticed while looking at some of the reviews on the Rotten Tomatoes page, that if you go to almost any of the profiles of people who gave a negative review, the pages don't even exist.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

The Last Jedi, as the penultimate movie in the Skywalker Saga, is very, very good.

As a movie in the Star Wars Saga it is very, very good.

As a movie in general, it is still quite good.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

As a lesbian porno, it's pretty disappointing. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It subverted me.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

[Mattris 416]

Ah, yes... the "Woo! I like this!" line from Rey. Just a hour prior, Rey narrowly escaped Kylo after confirming what she had always known: her parents were "nobody". Before that, she had stolen the ancient Jedi texts after abandoning Luke Skywalker, who was a shadow of what she expected and refused to leave the island. WHY DID SHE "LIKE" DESTROYING THE TIE FIGHTERS AND KILLING THE THE PILOTS? And with a big smile? This behavior is inconsistent with what little character development she experienced in the film.

 

8 hours ago, mstrox said:

I just realized something.......this thread sucks ass!

 

Maybe one day you'll realize something else..... that The Last Jedi sucks ass!

[Chen G. 3,943]

26 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

 

Hey, that's in The Last Jedi!

 

That shot of water spewing from the hole (whatever that was) on the island and than past Rey? That's an old Rian Johnson trick (he does it in Brick with a trash bag) where they clearly poured water on Daisy Ridley and played it in reverse.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Demodex 557]

8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This behavior is inconsistent with what little character development she experienced in the film.

 

Oh come on!  Who doesn't like shooting down TIE fighters?  It's no different from "Now this is podracing!" considering what Anakin's been through. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Or Luke's "I got him! I GOT HIM!" after losing Ben and his aunt and uncle.

[Mattris 416]

Her line is not analogous to those two examples. Anakin was a kid and capable pilot, with no reason not to be excited.

 

After the death of his aunt and uncle, Ben assured him that "there's nothing you could have done". Luke decided in that moment to become a Jedi like his father... and put their deaths behind him. After Ben was killed, we got to see Luke mourn his loss, with Leia comforting him similarly, "There wasn't anything you could have done".

 

The previous scene with Rey saw her in tears regarding her parents... before fighting for life to Force-pull the lightsaber from Kylo. After her stint as Falcon gunner, Rey saved her friends... and realized that her hope to 'save' Ben has come to an end as she closes the door on him, metaphorically and literally.

 

Destroying TIE fighters is one thing, but smiling while saying she 'likes' it is just... wrong. Rian Johnson was clearly trying to lighten the mood and tell the audience how to feel with Daisy Ridley's smiling face. But that line was inconsistent with her character development. Plain and simple.

[Holko 9,499]

Because getting an adrenaline rush from killing bad guys in a legendary ship and putting your troubles aside for a minute is totally unrealistic.

[Mattris 416]

"Killing bad guys" to narrowly save one's friends from being killed is not exactly "putting your troubles aside". Her exclamation ("whoo!") and smile would have been bad enough. Bluntly adding "I like this" is a completely unnatural and unrealistic reaction for her character.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Honestly I was more jarred when she gets savage in the throne room, where she kills dudes for the first time with a certain aggressive edge, and Williams plays some of it as a heroic moment.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

... and Williams plays some of it as a heroic moment.

Oh yeah! A New Alliance is actually one of my favorite tracks. Those brass hits and Prequel-esque drum riffs! The heroic Rey's theme and fanfare!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Oh yeah! A New Alliance is actually one of my favorite tracks

 

Agreed, but that one moment, besides how cutesy the fanfare is (and damn did Williams stuff this score full of cutesy triads), it struck me as wayyy out of character. The statement is Rey's theme there is one of my favorite variations out of the new scores.

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

"Killing bad guys" to narrowly save one's friends from being killed is not exactly "putting your troubles aside". Her exclamation ("whoo!") and smile would have been bad enough. Bluntly adding "I like this" is a completely unnatural and unrealistic reaction for her character.

 

I don't think adding that line changes anything.  You are so uptight about the dumbest things.

Ok, uptight isn't exactly the right word I'm looking for, but you know what I mean.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

"Killing bad guys" to narrowly save one's friends from being killed is not exactly "putting your troubles aside". Her exclamation ("whoo!") and smile would have been bad enough. Bluntly adding "I like this" is a completely unnatural and unrealistic reaction for her character.

They are TIE pilots. They're nobodies. She shoots them, just like Han used to. I believe he exclaimed "Woo!"a couple of times too.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Her line is not analogous to those two examples. Anakin was a kid and capable pilot, with no reason not to be excited.

 

After the death of his aunt and uncle, Ben assured him that "there's nothing you could have done". Luke decided in that moment to become a Jedi like his father... and put their deaths behind him. After Ben was killed, we got to see Luke mourn his loss, with Leia comforting him similarly, "There wasn't anything you could have done".

 

Could you imagine being able to instantly cure someone's grief by telling them there was nothing they could do about it??

[Demodex 557]

Hey, I'm sure those 5 seconds of mourning helped too!

 

He sure seemed excited about shooting a TIE fighter!  But you're right, there's a vast difference between him and Rey having the same reaction.  

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Luke's kept his chin up after a trail of deaths left behind him. But Rey having a good time shooting tie fighters after having her parents' alcoholism revealed to her... unacceptable!

[Demodex 557]

LOL

[Mattris 416]

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

I don't think adding that line changes anything.  You are so uptight about the dumbest things.

Ok, uptight isn't exactly the right word I'm looking for, but you know what I mean.

 

You have me there: TLJ was dumb. I will continue to explain why this movie failed as a sequel to TFA, as a Star Wars movie, and film, in general.

 

The movie has so many issues that its clear Rian Johnson either did not know what he was doing... or he was intentionally screwing with the fans. 'Subverting expectations' only works if the story and characters benefit from the unexpected. Just 'doing something you didn't see coming' may not be appropriate... or desired by your audience. When Rian Johnson was writing the film, I don't think he cared about the fans ("Your Snoke Theory Sucks")... and he still doesn't. He is a clearly a selfish, petty man. That's the problem the fans have with him.

 

That line actually does change everything. After all that she'd been through that day, she literally exclaimed that she liked destroying TIEs with the Falcon's gun... in a effort to prevent the Resistance speeders from being shot. Don't you think it would have been more appropriate to show her concentrating or looking more serious in that particular moment?

 

7 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

They are TIE pilots. They're nobodies. She shoots them, just like Han used to. I believe he exclaimed "Woo!"a couple of times too.

 

Han's reaction in ANH was "Ha, ha!" - not "I like this". And Rey is not Han.

 

5 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Could you imagine being able to instantly cure someone's grief by telling them there was nothing they could do about it??

 

After his traumatic events in ANH, Luke was shown grieving or 'having a moment'. But Rey goes from confronting Snoke and Kylo to playing a video game called Millennium Falcon Gunner. "Woo! I like this!" Absolutely ridiculous.

[Demodex 557]

47 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Absolutely ridiculous

 

That's what I think after reading your posts. 

So what if Luke is shown mourning for 5 seconds?  His excitement and Rey's are no different. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Mattris said:

My goal here is simply to explain why this movie failed as a sequel to TFA and as a Star Wars movie

 

And you keep failing at that. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

1 hour ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Luke's kept his chin up after a trail of deaths left behind him. But Rey having a good time shooting tie fighters after having her parents' alcoholism revealed to her... unacceptable!

But she's a Rey of hope!

[Arpy 4,145]

So Mattris, you have a problem with a young woman flying a spaceship through a crystal planet to help her friends from being obliterated, a moment of joy and relief and happiness after a nightmare ordeal with an eight foot tall wizard who looked like he was going to mind rape her, confronting Kylo, and all the sexual tension between them and then escaping that nightmare?

 

Yeah, it's real strange for someone to go through several emotions when flying a ship and shooting down bad guys...

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

That's what I think after reading your posts. 

So what if Luke is shown mourning for 5 seconds?  His excitement and Rey's are no different. 

And you keep failing at that. 

 

At least I put some effort into my posts. You mostly seem to just contradict my opinions. But you cannot contradict my facts.

 

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

So Mattris, you have a problem with a young woman flying a spaceship through a crystal planet to help her friends from being obliterated, a moment of joy and relief and happiness after a nightmare ordeal with an eight foot tall wizard who looked like he was going to mind rape her, confronting Kylo, and all the sexual tension between them and then escaping that nightmare?

 

Yeah, it's real strange for someone to go through several emotions when flying a ship and shooting down bad guys...

 

Killing three people in a war should NEVER be "a moment of joy [...] and happiness". I have no issue with "someone to go[ing] through several emotions" within a short period of time, including 'relief'. I do have a problem with a Jedi-hopeful literally saying, "Whoo! I LIKE THIS" with a big smile immediately after destroying three TIEs with a single shot. Oh, and this was the first time we saw Rey use the Falcon's gun. What a natural! No surprise from me.

 

In only a week or so, Rey's life had been tossed and turned in every way imaginable. But her reaction to firing that weapon was as if she was playing video game at a party with friends.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Killing three people in a war should NEVER be "a moment of joy [...] and happiness".

 

And yet it has often been a moment of levity whenever bad guys are killed in a SW flick. But you've probably never complained about it until Rey did it.

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't know how many war films/shows I've seen where the pilot was joyous in a moment of victory against the enemy. Rey does it = outrage.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Women aren't supposed to be happy unless they're in the presence of their male love interest!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm all for compelling arguments that SW is moving in a direction that repels many fans who champion the status quo. This is Hollyweird afterall, where there's a wide cultural disconnect with Middle America (I have no idea where Mattris is from, but I'm just making a generalisation).

 

But this level of nitpicking and tenuously fitting it into some creepy weirdo social engineering agenda? Dude, come on!

[Holko 9,499]

You know you've said some dumb shit when even Drax can't continue his satirising-7.5-billion-people-in-one-person show and just flat-out calls you out.

[Mattris 416]

On 10/6/2018 at 12:39 AM, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

And yet it has often been a moment of levity whenever bad guys are killed in a SW flick. But you've probably never complained about it until Rey did it.

 

On 10/6/2018 at 1:18 AM, Arpy said:

I don't know how many war films/shows I've seen where the pilot was joyous in a moment of victory against the enemy. Rey does it = outrage.

 

It's reasonable for someone - Rey included - to 'expressed relief' when helping to save people you care about. But that's not the extent of what was shown in this shot. Rey killed three enemy combatants with the Falcon's laser turret and then literally said she LIKED what she had done while smiling. Her use of the word "like" is what I take issue with.

 

After stealing the Jedi texts, one can assume that she was adamant to study/train to become a Jedi. Rey had never previously been shown expressing pleasure that she had killed someone. In TFA, she shot a stormtrooper and appeared shocked at what she had done. When defeating the Praetorian Guardmen, she was enraged.

 

Saying "like" is not 'acting relieved'.

 

On 10/6/2018 at 1:31 AM, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

I'm all for compelling arguments that SW is moving in a direction that repels many fans who champion the status quo. This is Hollyweird afterall, where there's a wide cultural disconnect with Middle America (I have no idea where Mattris is from, but I'm just making a generalisation).

 

But this level of nitpicking and tenuously fitting it into some creepy weirdo social engineering agenda? Dude, come on!

 

I never said I was a fan "who champion the status quo." I would have welcomed a somewhat different or unexpected Star Wars story had it been told well. But overall, TLJ is a travesty.

 

In general, I think The Last Jedi looks and sounds impressive, contains some good acting, and features a superb score by John Williams. But from a story and character development standpoint (and as Star Wars film and sequel), it's utter garbage... and filled with social engineering agenda. The fact that you can't recognize their agenda is disturbing. Please tell me, why were Holdo, Rose, and (the events of) Canto Bight included so prominently... or in the film at all? Why were all the men so inept?

 

I've provided dozens of specific examples of why I think the film is a disaster on almost every level... and after my research and online 'vibe' of the fans, can say with confidence that countless thousands (possibly millions) of people agree with me.

 

You can like the film. But word of its many issues - as well as the film-makers' rude/insulting reactions to the fans' displeasure/concern - is spreading quickly. Fans - and the general public - are learning/realizing that this film was designed to upset - or flat out anger - a significantly portion of the fans. I think by the time Episode 9 rolls around, Star Wars fans that are supporters of TLJ will be in the minority... if it hasn't already happened.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Come on, @Mattris, there's plenty to criticise (and yes, plenty to like, too) about The Last Jedi. No need to scrape the bottom of the barrel.