Star Wars Disenchantment

[Score 770]

46 minutes ago, Mattris said:

With only a solo flute playing, The Scavenger is the easiest example to understand. The last 4 notes @ 3:26 -- descending D, B, G, and finally that same B after a elongated space, where a D would have completed the Vader Motif exactly. This passage, along with the others I noted, was composed intently. Anyone who refutes this is musically inept and grossly underestimates John Williams.

 

Ok, listen. I already told you what real notes are being played there. That was my polite, fact-based reaction. I will now try to be clearer: if you keep saying that you hear the sequence D, B, G, B, or whatever else than the notes that I wrote, that's enough for me to conclude that either 1) you are trolling, or 2) you suffer from some kind of auditory hallucinations, or 3) you don't know... notes, or intervals. I cannot find other explanations, and I am starting to believe that no. 3 is the most likely (the cure would be to get some music lessons). To anyone who knows music theory, your posts read as if you were saying that 2 + 2 = 5. You are even declaring wrong notes, come on!

 

 

17 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Weeeellll, in fairness to Mattris, I think he meant more that the intervals of his theme (G Eb Bb in its first Imperial March statement) spell out a major triad. I'm trying to go on a limb for him here.

 

 Yeah, sure!!

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

12 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Honestly mate, tell me how I am not credible... more than just saying that others think I'm a 'fool'. Please describe how my observations regarding John Williams' compositions are 'nothing to see here'.

 

 

The whys and the wherefores aren't really here nor there to me, I'm a late comer to the thread who is just noticing your beleaguered deaf-eared style of debate. Fine in of itself in a quaint sort of way, but I've also picked up on a Josh500ish streak of flat out refusal to even consider any arguments other than your own inflexible theories, which is probably a bit of a blight on any respect you may have garnered with the rest of the bunch. 

 

Me though, I'm just here for the shits and giggles

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah I’m much happier since I decided to disengage and just watch. I’m starting to really appreciate the genius of the trolling.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,521]

"Ha, ha!", il  rit, "Je suis Docteur Qui". *

 

 

 

 

*with apologies for the bloody awful French.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else reckon The Arena in Episode II was Godzilla inspired?

[Mattris 416]

On 08/04/2019 at 4:55 PM, Score said:

Ok, listen. I already told you what real notes are being played there. That was my polite, fact-based reaction. I will now try to be clearer: if you keep saying that you hear the sequence D, B, G, B, or whatever else than the notes that I wrote, that's enough for me to conclude that either 1) you are trolling, or 2) you suffer from some kind of auditory hallucinations, or 3) you don't know... notes, or intervals. I cannot find other explanations, and I am starting to believe that no. 3 is the most likely (the cure would be to get some music lessons). To anyone who knows music theory, your posts read as if you were saying that 2 + 2 = 5. You are even declaring wrong notes, come on!

 

... or I simply made an honest mistake. No need to be condescending.

 

Without mistakes this time... Starting @ 3:26, the last four notes of The Scavenger are: (descending) D, B, E, B (identical to the second note)

 

At the first B, a Rallentando takes effect, so the E seems extended. To be the major triad (original) version of the Vader Motif, I understand that the lowest note (E) would have to be the higher G.

 

However, an eighth note D (same as the first note of the 4) before the last note (B) would have completed an exceedingly obvious variation of the Vader Motif, so Williams intentionally omitted the D.

 

My confidence is entirely unshaken since this passage was composed intently, as are the others I noted. John Williams hid numerous Vader Motif variations throughout the TFA score. Anyone insinuating that 'they do not exist' or that 'they are all unintentional' would be living in an alternate reality.

 

It's clear to me that Williams is trying to tell us something about Rey. Just as her origins and destiny are not in focus, so are the Vader/Emperor references within her music - but they are present, nonetheless. Mark my words, this all will be confirmed in December.

 

On 08/04/2019 at 5:05 PM, Quintus said:

The whys and the wherefores aren't really here nor there to me, I'm a late comer to the thread who is just noticing your beleaguered deaf-eared style of debate. Fine in of itself in a quaint sort of way, but I've also picked up on a Josh500ish streak of flat out refusal to even consider any arguments other than your own inflexible theories, which is probably a bit of a blight on any respect you may have garnered with the rest of the bunch. 

 

Me though, I'm just here for the shits and giggles

 

I have been corrected and admitted my mistakes - not "Clinically Thick". You '100% agreed' that I am a "troll". But if you are only here "for the shits and giggles", say little-to-nothing of substance, and direct antagonizing comments my way, YOU ARE THE TROLL.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The monster that was developed originally didn't work, so I had to jettison that monster. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

My oldest daughter was sick all night. I got no sleep whatsoever.

[SteveMc 2,674]

45 minutes ago, Mattris said:

YOU ARE THE TROLL.

 

[Score 770]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

... or I simply made an honest mistake. No need to be condescending.

 

Without mistakes this time... Starting @ 3:26, the last four notes of The Scavenger are: (descending) D, B, E, B (identical to the second note)

 

At the first B, a Rallentando takes effect, so the E seems extended. To be the major triad (original) version of the Vader Motif, I understand that the lowest note (E) would have to be the higher G.

 

However, an eighth note D (same as the first note of the 4) before the last note (B) would have completed an exceedingly obvious variation of the Vader Motif, so Williams intentionally omitted the D.

 

My confidence is entirely unshaken since this passage was composed intently, as are the others I noted. John Williams hid numerous Vader Motif variations throughout the TFA score. To insinuate that 'they do not exist' or that 'they are all unintentional' would be living in an alternate reality.

 

It's clear to me that Williams is trying to tell us something about Rey. Just as her origins and destiny are not in focus, so are the Vader/Emperor references within her music - but they are present, nonetheless. Mark my words, this all will be confirmed in December.

 

 

Instead of this reiterated nonsense (which makes even less sense than your original mistake, and does not warrant a reply), have you noticed how the rhythm (not the pitches) of the ending of that theme resembles... the rhythm of the Han & Leia's theme?? What is JW trying to tell us?? Is Rey their daughter??

[Mattris 416]

@Score By calling my more explanatory response "reiterated nonsense", you have shown yourself to be demeaning and not worth my time. Unless you apologize, you will be ignored.

[Score 770]

Ok, I'll disengage as well, and enjoy the show 

[Chen G. 3,949]

@Mattris mark my words: In IX, Rey will not be connected to Palpatine in any way whatsoever.

 

That is all.

[Fargo 297]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

@Mattris mark my words: In IX, Rey will not be connected to Palpatine in any way whatsoever.

 

That is all.

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Romão 2,274]

I used the to think that the Prequels would show that Obi-Wan was in fact Leia's father and the fact that Padme cheated Anakin with his master was the reason they fought and Anakin turned to the dark side. My evidence was that Leia's theme is heard when Obi-Wan dies.

 

Youth

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm still disappointed we never got to learn why his name was Ben.

[John 2,032]

Because he had already ben there, done that. 

[Mattris 416]

7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

@Mattris mark my words: In IX, Rey will not be connected to Palpatine in any way whatsoever.

 

That is all.

 

Palpatine personally arranged part of his Contingency plan on Rey's home planet of Jakku. Even before IX is in the books, that's an in-canon fact.

 

@Chen G. Do you think that Palpatine will remain unmentioned in this trilogy - that "Palpatine", "Sith Lord", "The Emperor", or "Darth Sidious" will not even be referenced in IX?

 

Do you have any ideas of where this is all headed? Will there be a major reveal or twist... a sacrifice, perhaps? Considering the events of TFA and TLJ, what story will be significant enough to warrant a ~2.5 hour movie... one that will conclude the Saga in a "satisfying" way? I'm curious to hear your answer.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I have no idea as to what the story would be.

 

But its often easier to tell what it won't be: that Palpatine theory is a great example. JJ isn't a stupid screenwriter.

[Fargo 297]

Sidious was already mentioned in TLJ, right? Mattris, how did you not remember that

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I have no idea as to what the story would be.

 

But its often easier to tell what it won't be: that Palpatine theory is a great example. JJ isn't a stupid screenwriter.

 

Indeed, he's a very calculated film maker.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

4 hours ago, Romão said:

I used the to think that the Prequels would show that Obi-Wan was in fact Leia's father and the fact that Padme cheated Anakin with his master was the reason they fought and Anakin turned to the dark side. My evidence was that Leia's theme is heard when Obi-Wan dies.

 

Youth

 

According to the official books prior to the release of Episode One, Uncle Owen was Ben's brother. I actually prefer it the way it was in the movies. I theorized that Obi-Wan was some sort of designation and Ben was his real name. Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon...

[Chen G. 3,949]

Err, @Mattris do have a read of this, would you please:

 

Quote

To have no script and[...]you’re saying (to yourself), you’ve got two years from the decision to do it to release, and you have literally nothing . . . . You don’t have the story[...]here were things that will be worked on for the version that preceded ours, but this was starting over.”

 

It was a completely unknown scenario. I had some gut instincts about where the story would have gone, but[...]episode eight, that was a story that Rian wrote and was telling.[...Co-writer Chris Terrio and myself] also had to respond to Episode VIII. So our movie was not just following what we had started, it was following what we had started and then had been advanced by someone else.[...the writing process is one of] forcing ourselves to question and answer some fundamental things that at the beginning, I absolutely had no clue how we would begin to address.[...one has to take into account] the lack of absolute inevitability, the lack of a complete structure for this thing, given the way it was being run.

-JJ Abrams

 

There you have it: we now have both Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams on record for saying that there is no real overriding plan for these films.

 

On a side-note, I wouldn't read too much into JJ's notes about bringing a conclusion to all nine films. I'm sure he'll focus primarily on bringing a resolution to this trilogy. His film will be all the better for it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It can't be much worse than ROTJ being the conclusion of the saga.

[Quintus 5,399]

44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Err, @Mattris have a read of this, would you please:

 

 

There you have it: we now have both Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams on record for saying that there is no real overriding plan for these films.

 

On a side-note, I wouldn't read too much into JJ's notes about bringing a conclusion to all nine films. I'm sure he'll focus primarily on bringing a resolution to this trilogy. His film will be all the better for it.

 

Lol, wait for the attempted outmanoeuvre. Should be good for a laugh! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Quintus 5,399]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

 

That is excellent. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I was walking home from work yesterday and found a visual metaphor for this thread:

 

 

[Mattris 416]

Jake Lloyd was horribly miscast. Many fans held the opinion that a young Anakin Skywalker should have been older: about 12, not 9. The poor kid simply wasn't talented enough for a role of that immensity. Some criticized the actor and/or the screenplay, but this vast majority of fans - and general public - recognized that Jake Lloyd was simply out of his league. But his parents put him up for the role and allowed him to take it, knowing that their son's career rested on the public's acceptance of his performance.

 

Ahmed Best was not at fault for the character, Jar Jar Binks. Mr. Best did his job admirably. This attempt at comic relief within the Prequel films was met with an overwhelmingly negative reception from both critics, Star Wars fans, and general audiences. It is unfortunate that Mr. Best contemplated suicide, but the actor agreed to take the role, did his job as instructed (across three films and multiple animated shows), and was paid. If one is intent on blaming someone, George Lucas invented the character, wrote the screenplay, and directed the actor.

 

John Boyega "endured" a boycott? Give me a break. The Force Awakens made over $2 billion dollars at the box office. Clone army troopers were not black, which led some people to question why a black stormtrooper would even exist. The logical conclusion is that the vast majority of these people were just ignorant of the fact that stormtroopers were not clones. Or they were being disingenuous just to troll the film-makers. A relative few people said they were not going to see the movie because it featured a black stormtrooper... but they probably did, anyway. On top of all that, John Boyega said to a critical fan on Twitter regarding Episode IX: "Good luck on your boycott, mate. (shrug emogi)"

 

Kelly Marie Tran did not say that she deleted her Instagram account due to harassment. In truth, she gave no reason at all. In a published New York Times piece, she blamed her personal problems on a stereotyping Hollywood culture, the media, and an identity crisis. She said nothing of harassment by (Star Wars) fans or the general public.

 

Daisy Ridley did not say that she deleted her Instagram account due to harassment. She stated that she had decided to take a break from social media to focus on more important things.

 

George Lucas wasn't having fun making films anymore? That's on him. It was his decision to sell his company. Nobody - including the fans - made him do that.

 

Kylo Ren is aggressive in his agenda, selfish, and wants "to let old things die". Kylo Ren is Kathleen Kennedy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, Mattris said:

John Boyega "endured"? Give me a break. Clone army troopers were not black, which led some people to question why a black stormtrooper would even exist. The logical conclusion is that the vast majority of these people were just ignorant of the fact that stormtroopers were not clones. Or they were being disingenuous just to troll the film-makers. A relative few people said they were not going to see the movie because it featured a black stormtrooper... but they probably did, anyway. One top of all that, John Boeyga said to a critical fan on Twitter: "Good luck on your boycott, mate. (shrug emogi)"

 

Kelly Marie Tran did not say she deleted her Instagram account due to harassment. In truth, she gave no reason at all. In a published New York Times piece, she blamed her personal problems on a stereotyping Hollywood culture, the media, and an identity crisis. She said nothing of harassment by (Star Wars) fans or the general public.

 

Daisy Ridley did not say she deleted her Instagram account due to harassment. She stated that she had decided to take a break from social media to focus on more important things.

 

George Lucas wasn't having fun making films anymore? That's on him. It's also his decision to sell his company. Nobody - including the fans - made him do that.

 

Kylo Ren is selfish, aggressive in his agenda, and wants "to let old things die". Kylo Ren is Kathleen Kennedy.

 

Thank you for this.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

We have clones, and droids, and flying termites, and rockets taking off, flying gunships, ground troops, 200 Jedi. It's much, much more complex than anything we've attempted before.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

It can't be much worse than ROTJ being the conclusion of the saga.

 

It depends.

 

Return of the Jedi isn't a terribly good movie, especially as what's supposed to be a grand resolution, be it to three films, five, six, two - whatever floats your boat.

 

However, it does an adequate job of closing the book on the story of Star Wars. Vader is redeemed, The Emperor slain, Luke is now a Jedi Knight, Han and Leia reunited, even Jabba - about whom the characters ramble on during the previous two films - is dealt with. Its insinuated that the Jedi order is re-established. The special edition goes on to show that the Empire was defeated, etcetra. There isn't really any plot thread from any of the six films that's left dangling at the end.  So while it may not be as satisfying in its sweep as one would want, it does gets the job done.

 

As a result, the story was perfectly complete before The Force Awakens materialized, and so far both that film and The Last Jedi failed to illustrate how the previous films were incomplete without the addition of another trilogy. For IX to be the resolution of the saga, it first needs to do that. But I don't really think it will.

[Mattris 416]

58 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

... the story was perfectly complete before The Force Awakens materialized, and so far both that film and The Last Jedi failed to illustrate how the previous films were incomplete without the addition of another trilogy. For IX to be the resolution of the saga, it first needs to do that. But I don't really think it will.

 

In Revenge of the Sith, Emperor Palpatine spoke of creating life, being afraid to loose power, and "the ability to cheat death". Add that to the numerous mentions of Palpatine, his Contingency plan, and Jakku within the new canon, and a possible conclusion to this trilogy - and saga - becomes quite clear.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Why are you guys all harping on the next Star Wars movie?

Frozen 2 is where it's at!

Hans and Elsa are going to be an item, haven't you heard?

No official confirmation yet, but if they don't, I will boycott the thing!

All the facts are there!  On social media, in obscure actor interviews!  In Bobby Lopez's score for the Broadway adaptation, with a theme inspired by Luke Skywalker!

Hans's name means redemption, for crying out loud!

Even some official artwork all but proves it! 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

That again? Just, let it it go. 

[SteveMc 2,674]

Troll!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I came up with the idea of adding a little schematic of the Death Star because the Geonosians build robots and build things. They're sort of the construction workers. They'd be the ones that'd probably be contracted to build the Death Star. And they were the ones that Jay and Silent Bob worried that they got killed on the Death Star, but they are, after all, just a bunch of...large termites.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

6 minutes ago, Ghostbusters II said:

I came up with the idea of adding a little schematic of the Death Star because the Geonosians build robots and build things. They're sort of the construction workers. They'd be the ones that'd probably be contracted to build the Death Star. And they were the ones that Jay and Silent Bob worried that they got killed on the Death Star, but they are, after all, just a bunch of...large termites.

 

Do you have the whole audio commentary memorized? 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

43 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

In Revenge of the Sith, Emperor Palpatine spoke of creating life, being afraid to loose power, and "the ability to cheat death". Add that to the numerous mentions of Palpatine, his Contingency plan, and Jakku within the new canon, and a possible conclusion to this trilogy - and saga - becomes quite clear.

 

Look buddy, IX may not be as bad as VIII, but there's no way in hell your Palpatine and Rey theory will pan out. You're literally just setting yourself up to be disappointed again.

 

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

But its often easier to tell what it won't be: that Palpatine theory is a great example. JJ isn't a stupid screenwriter.

 

Of course JJ's a stupid screenwriter. He's just not that stupid of a screenwriter.

[John 2,032]

You’d think he’d learned from VIII, that he should learn to keep his expectations in check, but no...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Star Wars fans must have one of the largest concentrations of scum to be found in any fandom.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I dunno. Doesn't that cartoon in some way validate what Mattris claims, that the studio has been antagonistic towards the fanbase, even if it's via stealth?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I think if you actively identify with Kylo Ren then you have bigger problems than feeling victimised by Disney.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

DQ, that's an mischaracterisation of my interpretation of this cartoon. I'm just not sure about this cartoon's message. Firstly it suggests that all these people who have worked on Star Wars have been brutally victimised by the fanbase, so as an act of retaliation the new studio created a villainous character as an unflattering reflection of their past (and future unknown) behaviour, because... I don't know why. Because the studio knew it inherited a hostile customer base and wanted to wag its finger at them? I just think its premise is flimsy.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I think it was actually a joke?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Eh a joke has to make sense to be funny.

[SteveMc 2,674]

The person behind it meant it as a joke that criticizes the fanbase. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I dunno, as an analogy, I just don't see Ronald McDonald getting angry at customers for complaining about his food and victimising staff.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah I mean it was clearly tongue-in-cheek but there is a nugget of truth in the portrayal of toxic fandom.