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Star Wars Disenchantment


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5 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

That's a legit attitude many people seem to have. The "Disney's just making good movies and none of you are allowed to dislike them" attitude. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm entitled to my opinion. God forbid I voice it though, then it's just fanboy bitching.

 

This!

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At least it was kind of fun to speculate after TFA. Things like; who are Rey's parents? How did the First Order come to power? Who is Snoke? Where has Luke been? Etc. But TLJ destroyed any hope of speculation and payoff by having zero plan at all and just winging it, making any further speculation about Ep9 as being utterly pointless because after TLJ you realise they have no idea what they're doing and there is no logical or consistent path that they could take the story that would make it feel whole. 

 

In the future, it will be looked back on as three very separate and messed up films that had no direction and no cohesion. Whereas the OT and Prequels both work as solid trilogies that have a central story. OT;  Luke's journey. Prequels; Vader's journey. And overall they work as one, with all six being about Vader and the Skywalker's as a whole. The new trilogy isn't about the Skywalkers, however much Disney wants you to think it is. It is about Rey, who we know nothing about (her past, her personality, her motivations, her reason for even being in the story). It's all just pointless.

ehrhffgg.gif

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59 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

At least it was kind of fun to speculate after TFA. Things like; who are Rey's parents? How did the First Order come to power? Who is Snoke? Where has Luke been? Etc. But TLJ destroyed any hope of speculation and payoff by having zero plan at all and just winging it, making any further speculation about Ep9 as being utterly pointless because after TLJ you realise they have no idea what they're doing and there is no logical or consistent path that they could take the story that would make it feel whole. 

 

In the future, it will be looked back on as three very separate and messed up films that had no direction and no cohesion. Whereas the OT and Prequels both work as solid trilogies that have a central story. OT;  Luke's journey. Prequels; Vader's journey. And overall they work as one, with all six being about Vader and the Skywalker's as a whole. The new trilogy isn't about the Skywalkers, however much Disney wants you to think it is. It is about Rey, who we know nothing about (her past, her personality, her motivations, her reason for even being in the story). It's all just pointless.

ehrhffgg.gif

 

It's like Chris Carter is secretly in charge!

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@leeallen01 Well, we still don't know the full extent of Snoke's character or his plans. We're still unsure on Rey's parentage, which I think was intentionally left open for the last film to answer. 

 

If IX goes with the Knights of Ren shenanigans, I think that might be a good opportunity to strengthen and flesh out Snoke's involvement as much as Kylo's. 

 

 

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I imagine that many of those burning questions will feature in the thousands of spin-off novels, comics, games and television series that are being released. Hopefully they’ll soften the blow of the leanly told films to the more hardened fans. 

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9 hours ago, Mattris said:

It's at the end of the cue. You can't miss it.

 

Uh, I must not understand what you're talking about because all I hear is Anakin's theme. There's nothing there that I would associate with Vader. 

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

 

Uh, I must not understand what you're talking about because all I hear is Anakin's theme. There's nothing there that I would associate with Vader. 

 

I think he means the end of the theme in that track, at 0:59. This one is actually correct (but also well known to be intentional).

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Williams famously based Anakin's Theme on the structure of The Emperial March. As a nice foreshadowing hint This isnt new information.  That doesnt mean that similarities in structure, chords etc in other themes are meant to be foreshadowing anything.

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Musically I always loved how he put that into Anakin’s theme, with a slight sense of foreboding, but it doesn’t really reflect the character as we see him on screen. A bit like how the headstrong and stubborn Leia gets a sweeping romantic melody more akin to a love theme. I think that’s why I like Rey’s theme so much, it doesn’t try to say anything about the character that Daisy Ridley’s charismatic performance doesn’t already. It’s a remarkably modern approach for someone with Williams’ history.

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Just listened to that and I hear it now.  I don't know how I never noticed that before.  I just thought that was just part of Anakin's theme since all the other uses of the Imperial March are anything but subtle. 

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Williams famously based Anakin's Theme on the structure of The Emperial March. As a nice foreshadowing hint This isnt new information.  That doesnt mean that similarities in structure, chords etc in other themes are meant to be foreshadowing anything.

 

Indeed, also because, in Anakin's case, it's literally the same character in two different stages of his life, and audiences in 1999 already knew his future evolution. More than a hint, it was a sort of "reminder" of what people already knew would happen. 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Score said:

 

Indeed, also because, in Anakin's case, it's literally the same character in two different stages of his life, and audiences in 1999 already knew his future evolution. More than a hint, it was a sort of "reminder" of what people already knew would happen. 

 

 

 

 

 

And Vader's breathing apparatus added in the film version just to hammer it in further.

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8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

They want her to be Luke's secret daughter or Chewie's niece.

 

I blame it all on Return of the Jedi.

 

With that stupid (yes, stupid) twist that Leia was Luke's sister, it conditioned people into this state of mind in which everyone is related.

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Do people still think her parents are some important character in the story? Not Luke (he probably would have said something to her), not Han & Leia (this ain't Game of Thrones, and we all know Kylo & Rey gonna get it on), not Lando because he uses protection, not Obi-Wan because obvious reasons.

 

Basically that just leaves Palpatine to be Rey's daddy. Mattris, you genius. 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

With that stupid (yes, stupid) twist that Leia was Luke's sister, it conditioned people into this state of mind in which everyone is related.

It wasn't at all a stupid twist.  You can always see that little connection that you feel when watching the first film.  In my opinion the twist was destined to happen and ultimately planned to happen.  

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8 minutes ago, Ii2 said:

 

 

 

It wasn't at all a stupid twist.  Yoy can always that little connection that you feel when watching the first film.  In my opinion the twist was destined to happen and ultimately planned to happen.  

*cough* Empire kiss scene *cough*

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Just now, SteveMc said:

*cough* Empire kiss scene *cough*

There was hesitation!

 

They knew it was wrong!

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58 minutes ago, Ii2 said:

 

 

 

It wasn't at all a stupid twist.  You can always see that little connection that you feel when watching the first film.  In my opinion the twist was destined to happen and ultimately planned to happen.  

 

You drank the George Lucas Diet Coke, dude!

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I blame it all on Return of the Jedi.

 

With that stupid (yes, stupid) twist that Leia was Luke's sister, it conditioned people into this state of mind in which everyone is related.

 

At least she wasn't his brother!

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3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Doesn't Leia kiss Luke a good three times over the course of the movie?

 

And that's just what they show onscreen ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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On 4/11/2019 at 10:27 AM, Chen G. said:

Why are people unwilling to take Kylo's words at face value? He only asks Rey to admit that which she already knows, but denies.

 

Its but a vessel for the filmmaker to communicate his intent. There's no point in making Reys parents people of any significance: it'll just take away from her growth, and it won't change her character one bit.

 

How could Kylo know who Rey's parents were? He and Snoke acted as though they did not know who she was. So the logical conclusion is one of two options:

 

1. Kylo read Rey's mind and knew that she thought her parents were "nobody" an has the "They were filthy junk traders" line ready.

2. Kylo hoped that Rey would come to the conclusion that her parents were "nobody" and had a confirmation ready.

 

I don't think either knew the truth of her parents, but they were both seeking closure on the matter. In the heat of the moment, Rey finally admitted that her parents were dead (and not 'coming back')... and, without her parental connection, Kylo tempted her to join him.

 

Having an explanation for Rey's origin will change her character because she will finally understand her identity and purpose. But it will not "take away from her growth". Once Rey understands why the Force awakened in her, the audience will be provided a reason for her to exist in the first place.

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Of the two choices, its definitely the former.

 

Kylo only gets Rey to say that which she always knew, but was in denial about. It could not be clearer.

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It certainly fits Johnson's ideas to subvert how we receive characters like Rey who we expect to have some powerful connection - even JW joked about wondering who Rey's parents were. In a series of films that have had these strong familial connections, it isn't absurd to wonder if Rey is connected to some of the older characters. 

 

I don't really mind one way or another, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if she isn't connected to the OT characters or not - I think she's Luke's daughter who he abandoned on Jakku as he was conflicted with how to raise her. 

 

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