Star Wars Disenchantment

[Chen G. 3,941]

But the continuity within the Star Wars episodes has already been immensly wonky. The "I Am your father!" reveal being entirely unearned by the original Star Wars; the "Leia's my sister" reveal being not only incongorous with the first two films, but even with the prequels which came after that idea was comitted to film, R2's flying capabilities in the prequels, C3PO being familiar to the Lars family and R2 to Obi Wan beforehand, the lack of bodies disappearing in the prequels, the fighting choreography in the original Star Wars being so different to that in the other films, the lightsaber in The Force Awakens, and on and on.

 

Not to mention the structural aspects of the narrative as it unfolds from episode to episode.

[Holko 9,491]

But when someone thinks up a logical explanation in two seconds you shoo them away with ITS NOT IN THE FILM and call them stupid. Mmhmm.

[mstrox 6,637]

On Star Wars Rebels, a Twi’Lek and a human had a fucked up child together 

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jacen_Syndulla?file=Jacen_Syndulla.jpeg

 

what species would you want to mate with Yoda, logistically how do you think it would work, and what do you think their babies would look like.

 

 

[Holko 9,491]

With an Amani for sure, best species ever.

[leeallen01 2,133]

If Yoda didn't use Force lightening or hit luke on the head. That would solve the plot hole. And if Holdo's attack would have just damaged Snoke's flagship enough to disable it, then that would solve the plot hole. 

 

The problem is that Rian needed the majority of the first order's force to be taken out at that time in the story. So he just wrote a new thing that would solve his narrative. "I need Holdo out of the story and the first order's fleet destroyed. Erm. Mmmmm. I know, Holdo's hyperspeeds into them and their entire fleet is crippled. That will do."

 

Inventing things. Like Deus ex Machina, that just solve your narrative problem is bad writing. 

[Holko 9,491]

So you only want something new and creative if the movie takes half an hour to retroactively explain why it couldn't have worked in every event in galactic history.

[Chen G. 3,941]

1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

The problem is that Rian needed the majority of the first order's force to be taken out at that time in the story. So he just wrote a new thing that would solve his narrative. "I need Holdo out of the story and the first order's fleet destroyed. Erm. Mmmmm. I know, Holdo's hyperspeeds into them and their entire fleet is crippled. That will do."

 

Welcome to screenwriting!

 

That's how its done. What's wrong with that?

[mstrox 6,637]

Would the child be a regular sized Yoda with strangely proportioned arms, a smaller Amanin, or a 50/50 combination of the two?

[leeallen01 2,133]

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But the continuity within the Star Wars episodes has already been immensly wonky. The "I Am your father!" reveal being entirely unearned by the original Star Wars; the "Leia's my sister" reveal being not only incongorous with the first two films, but even with the prequels which came after that idea was comitted to film, R2's flying capabilities in the prequels, C3PO being familiar to the Lars family and R2 to Obi Wan beforehand, the lack of bodies disappearing in the prequels, the lightsaber in The Force Awakens, and on and on.

 

Vader being Luke's dad and Leia being Lukes sister doesn't contradict any previous events. Lucas sloppily explained 3PO's 'amnesia' but it was explained. 

[Holko 9,491]

The size would be midway between the two, that thing with Yoda ears basically.

[leeallen01 2,133]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

So you only want something new and creative if the movie takes half an hour to retroactively explain why it couldn't have worked in every event in galactic history.

 

You just don't understand. I have explained it countless times. I refuse to continue to just reword my same sentences because you cannot get it.

[Holko 9,491]

FInally! Goal reached!  

[leeallen01 2,133]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Welcome to screenwriting!

 

That's how its done. What's wrong with that?

 

Nope that isn't how it's done. That is how bad writing is done. A good writer wouldn't write themselves into a corner that needs deus ex machina to escape from. 

[mstrox 6,637]

Has there ever been evidence of characters in Star Wars having sex for pleasure, or is it all procreation?  We don’t have to limit our conversation to the new canon

[Chen G. 3,941]

10 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Leia being Lukes sister doesn't contradict any previous events. 

 

Um...

 

 

HAN SOLO

You think a princess and a guy like me?

 

LUKE

No.

 

 

 

 

 

John Williams: "George, I even wrote, if you remember, a quite heeded love theme [Leia's theme...] thinking that Luke and Leia were lovers."

 

10 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Lucas sloppily explained 3PO's 'amnesia' but it was explained. 

 

Yeah, he explained why C3PO didn't remember anyone. He didn't explain why the Lars family, who had C3PO in their house, didn't recognise him. What, because of the lack of a paint job?

[leeallen01 2,133]

Here's another question I expect many invented excuses for from TLJ apologists.

 

Why did Kylo just forget he could use the force in the throne room?

 

He was about to die being held by the guards, and instead of using the force to just save himself, he decided to stand there and wait until he was saved by Rey throwing him the lightsaber. If Rey wouldn't have done that, Kylo would have died just forgetting he could use the force. 

 

In TFA he used the force immediately in defense when Poe shot at him, freezing the bolt in midair. 

Just now, Chen G. said:

 

 

HAN SOLO

You think a princess and a guy like me?

 

LUKE

No.

 

 

 

 

 

John Williams: "George, I even wrote, if you remember, a quite heeded love theme [Leia's theme...] thinking that Luke and Leia were lovers."

 

 

Yeah, he explained why C3PO didn't remember anyone. He didn't explain why the Lars family, who had C3PO in their house, didn't recognise him. What, because of the lack of a paint job?

 

 

How does any of that narratively contradict them being related? 

 

Also there are millions of protocol droids in the galaxy.

[Chen G. 3,941]

All this getting technical only serves you up a point when it comes to assessing films. As an artform, it just isn't one that dwells on such technicalities. The drama and the overall flow of the picture is what matters.

 

You make choices to further your narrative and to make things look cool. Look at one of the victims in Carpenter's The Thing: his throat is slit and his blood frooze as it was coming out. Does it really work like that, even within the internal logic of the film? No. Does it look cool? Sure does. Does Batman falling with Racehl from a skyscraper unto a car in The Dark Knight and suriving really make sense? No. Does anyone really care? Not really.

 

13 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

How does any of that narratively contradict them being related? 

 

 

You see all of these nitpicks, but you really don't see how setting-up a love triangle between Leia, Luke and Han in a children's-film series is incongorous with a reveal that Leia is Luke's sister? Plus its incongorous even with the prequels, as Leia seem to have recollections of Natalie Portman.

 

Face it: Star Wars was never big on continuity.

[leeallen01 2,133]

No. It may be weird, but it DOESN'T contradict the narrative. It isn't a plot hole. It's just weird. But it doesn't change anything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You don't think Leia remembering her mother is a plot hole? It became one in 2005.

[Holko 9,491]

14 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Here's another question I expect many invented excuses for from TLJ apologists.

 

No, you think about it and come up with something so we can answer STOP WRITING THE MOVIE FOR THEM.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Also "Some people don't care, so it doesn't matter." Isn't an argument.

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

You don't think Leia remembering her mother is a plot hole? It became one in 2005.

Never said it wasn't a plot hole.

1 minute ago, Holko said:

No, you think about it and come up with something so we can answer STOP WRITING THE MOVIE FOR THEM.

 

Nope it's just bad writing if it needs explained by someone other than the filmmaker themselves in their own film.

[Holko 9,491]

Again, you expect every moment to be spelled out or can you think for yourself for two seconds?

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You don't think Leia remembering her mother is a plot hole? It became one in 2005.

 

It seems that if the force is strong with you, then you've also got a very good memory.

[leeallen01 2,133]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It seems that if the force is strong with you, then you've also got a very good memory.

 

Did Leia say Padme? Luke asked do you remember you mother? She thinks her mother is Bail Organa's wife does she not? Can't remember if Leia knew she was adopted. 

2 minutes ago, Holko said:

Again, you expect every moment to be spelled out or can you think for yourself for two seconds?

 

Nope, never said that. Good writing doesn't need explaining. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

He specifically asks about her real mother.

 

Whos' writing for the filmmakers now?

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

I don't know, and frankly, I don't care.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Who's Frank?

[leeallen01 2,133]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

He specifically asks about her real mother.

 

Whos' writing for the filmmakers now?

 

Where did I write for the filmmakers? I said I couldn't remember if she knew she was adopted. But nice try

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

1 minute ago, dougie said:

Who's Frank?

 

The cousin of Shirley.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Don't call him that.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Leia remembering her mother is a contradiction to events. But it doesn't change the narrative in any way. How does her remembering her mother change anything? It's an inconsistency, but not as major as weaponised lightspeed or force ghosts being able to destroy physical objects with lightning.

[Chen G. 3,941]

You're right, its much, much worse than those instances.

 

3 minutes ago, dougie said:

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The cousin of Shirley.

 

Don't call him that.

 

He's not the master of this tow...oops, wrong franchise again!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

No, I was just offering him a young lady. 

[leeallen01 2,133]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

You're right, its much, much worse

 

 

Please enlighten me as to how.

 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

[Chen G. 3,941]

The instances you speak of are ones which require some extrapolation on the part of the audience, most of which will be perfectly happy to just let the film wash over them and not think about such technicalities too much. Indeed, I never thought of this issue until you brought it up.

 

The Leia one, conversly, is readily appearant to everyone.

[leeallen01 2,133]

It doesn't matter if some people don't notice. If it's there, it's there. Your ability to care doesn't change somethings existence.

[mstrox 6,637]

One major plot hole is that Luke is extremely horny in the original trilogy, but in TLJ he isn’t horny at all with no evidence that he’s ever gotten laid*

 

*not a plot hole if Rey is his daughter 

[Chen G. 3,941]

3 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

It doesn't matter if some people don't notice. If it's there, it's there. Your ability to care doesn't change somethings existence.

 

Its not really there. It what I call between the scenes rather than within them. In the case of Holdo's suicide run, you don't know that no-one ever tried it anymore than you know that they did. Either way, its basically straying into the realm of fan-fiction.

 

You're not supposed to overthink plot-points. Movies are meant to wash over you, not to deliberate upon each plot point and every contrivance. The plot is but a vehicle for the drama and the themes of the work.

[Holko 9,491]

You assuming someone must've already thought of hyperspace ramming is just as much making shit up for your own goals as us trying to come up with actual rational explanations.

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

One major plot hole is that Luke is extremely horny in the original trilogy, but in TLJ he isn’t horny at all with no evidence that he’s ever gotten laid*

 

*not a plot hole if Rey is his daughter 

 

We didn’t see everything that happened between Luke and Rey on that island 

[Chen G. 3,941]

2 minutes ago, Holko said:

You assuming someone must've already thought of hyperspace ramming is just as much making shit up for your own goals as us trying to come up with actual rational explanations.

 

Exactly. Both are extrapolating from what's actually in the film/s into what isn't.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

One major plot hole is that Luke is extremely horny in the original trilogy, but in TLJ he isn’t horny at all with no evidence that he’s ever gotten laid*

 

*not a plot hole if Rey is his daughter 

 

That happens to a lot of people when they get old. That's why they're grumpy.

Just now, Bilbo said:

 

We didn’t see everything that happened between Luke and Rey on that island 

 

Are you implying that Luke revealed his true force?

[leeallen01 2,133]

There comes a point in a conversation where one realises they have been talking to people with low intelligence and an inability to understand basic logic, and they realise they have wasted their time. Unfortunately, for me, that was a long time ago.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

...in a galaxy far, far away.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Just now, leeallen01 said:

There comes a point in a conversation where one realises they have been talking to people with low intelligence and an inability to understand basic logic, and they realise they have wasted their time. Unfortunately, for me, that was a long time ago.

 

Yup. We all realized that about you a loooooooong time ago. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

There comes a point in a conversation where one realises they have been talking to people with low intelligence and an inability to understand basic logic

 

You see, this is much worse than any obtuse and languid piece Mattris has ever written.

 

You can make and argue your absurd claims all you want, but when the discussion goes ad hominem, I go away.

[leeallen01 2,133]

2 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 

Yup. We all realized that about you a loooooooong time ago. 

 

Ohhhhhhh snap

[mstrox 6,637]

 

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That happens to a lot of people when they get old. That's why they're grumpy.

It you’re suggesting old people can’t be horny, I recommend that you add a little 2018 documentary called Book Club to your Star Wars watchlist

[leeallen01 2,133]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

 

You see, this is much worse than any obtuse and languid piece Mattris has ever written.

 

You can make and argue your absurd claims all you want, but when the discussion goes ad hominem, I go away.

 

 

My patience can only spread so thin before it is torn to pieces by people's lack of understanding. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

It you’re suggesting old people can’t be horny, I recommend that you add a little 2018 documentary called Book Club to your Star Wars watchlist

 

I clearly didn't say all. I didn't mean to offend you Mike!

 

I haven't heard of Star Wars: Book Club. Is it any good?