Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Sweeping Strings said: Palpatine will turn out to be Capaldi's Doctor gone bad. It's the Star Wars/Who crossover we've all been waiting for! Palpatine will turn out to have always been Davros! Sweeping Strings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,433 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Every single Jedi that ever existed will come back to life just to fight Palpatine. It'll be 9,999,999,999,999 Jedi versus Palpatine... and it will take place on Mustafar! Yeah, but then Palpy brings back every single Sith that ever existed, and there you go: an extremely epic battle between the Light and the Dark. Williams will score it once again with Duel of the Fates, but this time 200% more epic! Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted October 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 1, 2019 They will need to bring in Balfe to maximize the epicness. The Illustrious Jerry, Edmilson, Manakin Skywalker and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 . Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, SteveMc said: Star Wars: Endgame to which the appropriate response is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Yeah, but then Palpy brings back every single Sith that ever existed, and there you go: an extremely epic battle between the Light and the Dark. Williams will score it once again with Duel of the Fates, but this time 200% more epic! A 1,000 piece choir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2,000! John needs to outdo Mahler once and for all! Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: The Mormon Tabernacle Choir! Fixed! Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 . Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,433 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Zimmer crowdsorced online audio recordings of voices all over the world singing Deshi Bashara for his Bane theme on TDKR, maybe Williams can do the same. I mean, he'll have to ask someone to explain to him how an online crowdsourcing system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 If they're going to bring in that big a choir might as well grace us with a fresh take on Yub Nub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,514 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said: Palpatine will turn out to be Capaldi's Doctor gone bad. It's the Star Wars/Who crossover we've all been waiting for! N. 51 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said: Palpatine will turn out to be Capaldi's Doctor gone bad. It's the Star Wars/Who crossover we've all been waiting for! N. 51 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said: Palpatine will turn out to be Capaldi's Doctor gone bad. It's the Star Wars/Who crossover we've all been waiting for! N. 52 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Palpatine will turn out to have always been Davros! ...and Jar Jar will pull off a mask revealing himself to be...Adric! Sweeping Strings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Nah, JW would refuse to score the film if Rey died. Nah, JW specifically said that he only agreed to score TLJ because it was confirmed to him that Daisy was in it. If my theory comes to pass, Daisy will continue in the film even if Rey dies. @Chen G. I'm curious to hear your answers to these specific questions of mine... that I already posed: - For Johnson not to have scrapped anything when writing TLJ, JJ would not have had treatments for VIII and IX. Is that what you think? - If so, it would follow that you think that JJ and L. Kasdan wrote all of those lines (that I quoted on the previous page) without an idea of their (originally intended) meaning. Is that what you think? - Do you believe Johnson when he says he didn't meet with JJ before he wrote TLJ? - Do you think that the low-high-mid ordered note groupings in the cadence of Rey's Theme (like Darth Vader's Theme) mean nothing specific - along with the abundance of minor thirds (The Emperor's Theme) in her theme and motif? mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Mattris said: For Johnson not to have scrapped anything when writing TLJ, JJ would not have had treatments for VIII and IX. Is that what you think? Yes. Exactly. 1 hour ago, Mattris said: If so, it would follow that you think that JJ and L. Kasdan wrote all of those lines (that I quoted on the previous page) without an idea of their (originally intended) meaning. Is that what you think? What bloody lines?! 1 hour ago, Mattris said: Do you believe Johnson when he says he didn't meet with JJ before he wrote TLJ I see no reason not to believe him. 1 hour ago, Mattris said: Do you think that the low-high-mid ordered note groupings in the cadence of Rey's Theme (like Darth Vader's Theme) mean nothing specific - along with the abundance of minor thirds (The Emperor's Theme) in her theme and motif? The Imperial March connection, I mean, Rey's theme is meant to be the antithesis of Kylo Ren's themes, and those are steeped in the vocabulary of the Imperial March, so it makes sense that a whiff of it will crop up in Rey's theme, too. There's a bit of the Imperial March under the Jedi Steps material (which relates to Luke) at the end of The Force Awakens, too. So? As for the Emperor's Theme, I may be mistaken by I seem to recall that the minor thirds are a trait of the Star Wars "sound" and are therefore present in a whole host of themes and moments across the various entries. You always need to be careful when you're making musical connections based on such basic musical building blocks. Its like taking generic phrases that just happen to be repeated within a script (e.g. a character shouts "watch out!") and treating their different appearances as though they were intentional callbacks. Music doesn't work like that any more than language does. Besides, if I had to characterize the Emperor's theme I think its most distinctive trait isn't the melody, its the timber: the menacing, churchy low male choir which became a calling-card for Sith music throughout the series. When we hear Rey's theme set in Basso Profundo, then we'll talk. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 This is the choir that will be contracted: https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/largest-gospel-choir?fb_comment_id=741438412610420_899102406844019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 14 hours ago, Mattris said: Some would say these film makers are simply incompetent, but I don't believe that for a second. Didn't you spend months trying to convince us how incompetent Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson are? I don't agree that Kylo will bring anyone back to life. Just my gut feeling. I also don't think John Williams was told anything about what happens in the trilogy when he scored TFA. I could be wrong. We'll know soon. I will admit though that I'm impressed you were able to predict Palpatine's return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Chen G. said: What bloody lines?! @Chen G. These bloody lines: "You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could." The TFA novelization adds "With your help." "You're afraid... that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!" "Forgive me. I feel it again... the pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again... the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started." "I'm being torn apart. I know what I have to do, but I don't know it I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?" From the second TFA trailer: "The Force is strong in my family... You have that power too." Do you think that JJ and Lawrence Kasdan wrote these lines without an intention or idea of their meaning? 15 hours ago, Chen G. said: I see no reason not to believe him. If Rian Johnson had no criteria when writing TLJ, except keep Rey and Kylo alive, then he had criteria. Do you seriously believe that he was allowed to have Rey go "straight to the dark", have Yoda semi-materialize, and kill off Luke and Snoke without oversight/advisement/instruction from KK, JJ, and/or the Story Group? He didn't even meet with JJ before writing his film. You really buy that? 15 hours ago, Chen G. said: The Imperial March connection... the Emperor's Theme... I may be mistaken... Before I respond to your musical analysis and (John Williams) scoring assumptions, please answer this: How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up (note-for-note) in TLJ? mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 It's well known by now that JW's a bit forgetful when it comes to themes at his old age. Let's just be glad he didn't use the Raiders March for Han Solo in TFA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 The ET aliens appeared in The Phantom Menace. So from that, I deduce that The Rise Of Skywalker will turn out to be set on Earth! Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Mattris said: How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up (note-for-note) in TLJ? It's because Snoke was using the Dark Side of the Force. It was used for Anakin's confession in AOTC and Palpatine had nothing to do with that scene either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Lorraine told me to tell you that she wants you to ask her to the Disenchantment Under the Sea dance. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Gay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 It's written all over your underwear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 5:47 AM, Demodex said: It's because Snoke was using the Dark Side of the Force. It was used for Anakin's confession in AOTC and Palpatine had nothing to do with that scene either. As revealed in an alternate version of an early scene in Revenge of the Sith, George Lucas' explanation of Shmi's kidnapping was attributed to Palpatine, who told Anakin that Count Dooku arranged for the Tusken Raiders to carry out the deed. In the film, this scene contains Palpatine's infamous order to Anakin to kill Dooku by decapitation: "Do it." Believing for a second that Dooku had Anakin's mother kidnapped (and tortured to near-death) on his own - without explicit direction and oversight from Palpatine - would be incredibly naive. Palpatine's plan all along was to turn Anakin to the Dark Side and become his new apprentice. He knew that the (crude, untimely) death of Anakin's mother would be a major step in his "journey towards the Dark Side". Oh, and the line at the end of the D23 Special Look ("Your journey nears its end.") is a clear reference to the only instance of "journey" being used in the films... by The Emperor to Luke in Return of the Jedi: "Strike me down with all your hatred and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete." And indeed, Ben Solo and Rey's journeys towards the Dark Side are nearing their end. Rey's path will end in darkness, as it began. Ben Solo has been sinking himself into the Dark in an effort to learn about the Sith and Darth Sidious, as well as the "unnatural" ability to bring back his father. Alongside past Jedi, Ben will have a major role in defeating Palpatine... once and for all. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Mattris, the formatting of pasted text intertwined with plain text is giving me the heebie jeebies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 32 minutes ago, Mattris said: As revealed in an alternate version of an early scene in Revenge of the Sith, George Lucas' explanation of Shmi's kidnapping was attributed to Palpatine, who told Anakin that Count Dooku arranged for the Tusken Raiders to carry out the deed. In the film, this scene contains Palpatine's infamous order to Anakin to kill Dooku by decapitation: "Do it." You're talking about a scene which George Lucas penned in 2003. Williams scored the scene of Anakin's confession in 2002. In The Last Jedi specifically, I believe the Emperor's Theme is used in a self-referential way, so as to say: "gee, this looks really familiar, doesn't it, boys and girls?" just before the scene turns on a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 How do you know that George Lucas penned that scene in 2003... or that he didn't tell John Williams to include The Emperor's Theme for that specific reason? I look forward to your answers to my other questions. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 George Lucas didn't write the three scripts in advance. He certainly all the major plot-points of the prequel trilogy in his mind from the beginning (by sheer virtue of the facts that they were prequels and therefore had a prefigured plot traejectory), but not actual scripts. Those were done individually, and I doubt some of the finer plot-points such as Shmi's death being orchestrated were in his mind from the get-go. As for Williams, I doubt he would have bothered to ask. When Lucas heard Duel of the Fates, he confided in Williams that he wants to use it for the third film (i.e. for the Anakin/Obi Wan duel). Williams, for his part, said: "I don't quite know what he means by that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I didn't say that George Lucas wrote all of the scripts in advance. But if you concede that he had all the major plot-points of the prequel trilogy in his mind from the beginning, then why is a stretch to believe that, during the spotting sessions, he instructed John Williams to include The Emperor's Theme ... for the specific reason that he later revealed? I'd say the reason behind how and why Anakin's mother was kidnapped and killed is a major plot point! mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Shmi's death being orchestrated by Dooku (and, by extension, Palpatine) is hardly a major plot-point. Evidentally, it didn't even survive the editing process. When I say George Lucas had the prequels figured out I mean that strictly in the broadest brushstrokes, which - while better than what was done in the other two trilogies - isn't to be overestimated. I doubt George Lucas thought of that particular plot point in advance. If he did, he probably would have set-up clues for it in Attack of the Clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Then, once again, you are not giving the writer and composer enough credit. These men are the masters of their craft. Mystery and ambiguity makes things interesting. Just ask JJ Abrams! Do you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to kill Snoke in VIII? How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up in TLJ during Rey's torture scene? mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I guess JW mistook it for the first ever love theme of the saga. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You think George Lucas is a master of the craft of screenwriting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 No, a master of story crafting. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 To which the obvious rebuttal would be “Leia is my sister!” mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I'm out. Bye Star Wars Disenchantment Thread. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Are you an angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: To which the obvious rebuttal would be “Leia is my sister!” Do you not think that George Lucas is/was a master of story crafting? Why does it matter that he thought of some story elements later in his story-writing process? Can you prove which ones weren't planned early on... or from the very beginning? As Executive Producer of the Sequel Trilogy, do you not think that JJ Abrams intended to be mysterious and ambiguous... to makes things interesting through to the conclusion of the Saga? Do you think he did not have meaning behind those (above) lines in TFA? Do you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to have Snoke killed in TLJ? How do you think The Emperor's Theme wound up in TLJ during Rey's torture scene? Please @Chen G., answer these questions. 1 hour ago, Arpy said: I'm out. Bye Star Wars Disenchantment Thread. @Arpy Glad to have your support in regards to my theories. Please put in a word for me on the outside! mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 It's ironic that your username is Mattris, because this thread is making me want to lie the fuck down and go to sleep. Mattris and Edmilson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You have a big day tomorrow. Sleep well, Ani. Fabulin and Mattris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,514 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 For fuck's sake @Jay, kill this thread, now! Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Richard said: For fuck's sake @Jay, kill this thread, now! Have you ever considered simply not opening threads you don't want to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,514 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Half the fun of JWfan, is getting pissed at threads that annoy you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Maybe for some people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Richard said: For fuck's sake @Jay, kill this thread, now! The questions and theories I'm posing are as substantive and educated as anything in the other Star Wars threads. Why are you getting so frustrated that you feel the desire to squash my speech? I'm curious, what have I said that annoys you? 5 hours ago, Chen G. said: In The Last Jedi specifically, I believe the Emperor's Theme is used in a self-referential way, so as to say: "gee, this looks really familiar, doesn't it, boys and girls?" just before the scene turns on a dime. @Chen G. I see you chose to amend an earlier post to appear that you weren't avoiding answering this question of mine. Moving forward, please respond in new posts only. It will make the conversation easier to keep track of. I'll continue waiting for your assessment of those particular lines from TFA (above), particularly, if you think Abrams and Kasdan meant something by including them... and if you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to kill Snoke in VIII. Your musical analysis is highly flawed, as you are clearly unaware of John Williams' film composing technique, especially as it relates to prequels and sequels. Countless past examples of his use of leitmotif indicate that John Williams would have included The Emperor's Theme - whilst Rey's was being tortured - quite deliberately, for a specific character- and/or story-based reason. It was not 'to sound familiar'. Nor did Williams compose Rey's Theme to include hints of Darth Vader's Theme and The Emperor Theme accidentally, coincidentally, for no reason at all, or can simply be attributed it to 'the Star Wars sound'. I'm sorry, but this an an incredibly naive and ignorant perspective. Mark my words, you will be proven wrong. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mattris said: if you think JJ is bringing back Palpatine in IX because Rian Johnson just happened to kill Snoke in VIII. I think that made it inevitable. There had to be a big bad, and it wasn’t going to be Kylo, the guy our heroine already beat in TFA. I think Abrams’ primary concern in TFA was nailing the look-and-feel beat by beat, with minimal interest in the consequences on the larger story or fictional universe. That’s how his TV shows worked — thrilling and intriguing setup for some grand reveal which never came. Rian Johnson always claimed he was handed a blank slate. You claim that’s impossibly unprofessional, but, that’s only because you view Star Wars as a tight-knit, magnificent saga, rather than a serial which has always just made it up as it went along. That said, Lucas/Kasdan/Kurtz, back during production of ESB, did come up with a vague 9-episode outline, and I do feel Abrams might have mined it for ideas. Vader dies in Ep.6, but Palpatine final defeat is not till Ep.9 Luke fails in some way (this is of course seeded in ESB) the last hope is actually his sister - not Leia, but a new character who would mysteriously “appear” Based on this (and based on TFA’s many references to the moment at which Luke lost his hand and lightsaber on Bespin), I’d prefer to believe that Rey has been cloned from Luke’s hand, and is not a clone of Palpatine. But, I really believe that Abrams could go any of a number of different directions, and it’s not really possible to predict by “decoding” the last two movies. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: That said, Lucas/Kasdan/Kurtz, back during production of ESB, did come up with a vague 9-episode outline, and I do feel Abrams might have mined it for ideas. Vader dies in Ep.6, but Palpatine final defeat is not till Ep.9 Luke fails in some way (this is of course seeded in ESB) the last hope is actually his sister - not Leia, but a new character who would mysteriously “appear” The nine-page outline was only for the original film, although at that point that film was very different to the film we ended up getting, and some elements of that would-be films appeared in later films in the series. Lucas did have a concept for a nine film story, not really a written treatment as far as I’m aware. The idea that the Emperor was to be confronted and defeated in Episode IX was a natural part of the storytelling rather than some great piece of forethought. I don’t think he had the concept of Vader dying in Episode VI. The sister is actually named in early drafts of the script to Empire Strikes Back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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