Star Wars Disenchantment

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

You know you've said some dumb shit when even Drax can't continue his satirising-7.5-billion-people-in-one-person show and just flat-out calls you out.

 

What "dumb shit" have I said?

 

13 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Come on, @Mattris, there's plenty to criticise (and yes, plenty to like, too) about The Last Jedi. No need to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

 

You say, having a character exist merely to make a social statement "didn't happen". How then do you legitimize the inclusion of Holdo and Rose in precisely the way they were portrayed? Please address how they affected the other characters and overall story.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Holdo is there to facilitate Poe's growth into a responsible leader, as well as to (of course) subvert expectations. Usually its the plucky, hands-on guy who's right and the stiff, distant authority figure that's wrong, but Rian Johnson - being Rian Johnson - said "psyche!" In this case, I would say her being a woman is more incidental than anything else. I still find the way he upstaged this trope to be mechanical and overwrought (given that he does it over and over and over again) but my issue isn't that Holdo's a woman.

 

I feel like Rose's monologues in Canto Bight (which I don't care for in the slightest) are there more to provide her with a sympathetic backstory than to act as social commentary outright. To be fair, the social commentary is certainly there but honestly, I'm more critical of the inclusion of an off-the-wall commentary of animal cruelty and arms trades.

 

Really, as long as its not a 50/50 cast (which it isn't), and as long as there aren't overt "leave me alone, I'm a strong independent woman, y'know!" (which there aren't), then the presence of female characters is fine by me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Could the child slavery stuff be included to give it the resolution it didn't get in the prequels?

[Chen G. 3,944]

Could be. Johnson had some overt prequel influences, both in the design (especially of Canto Bight and Snoke's Throne-Room), shot composition (Kylo Ren and the Stormtroopers marching into the Rebel Base), in his temp-track choices and in referencing Sidius. In fact, Johnson even tries to be apologetic about the prequels' treatment of the Jedi Order, attempting to recontextualize it, as if George Lucas was providing commentary on their stiffness and vanity (which is bollocks but never mind).

 

Curiously, he also let in some of the prequel trilogy's weaknesses such as some passages of inane dialogue (I'm thinking about Rose in particular), the stronger reliance on sci-fi elements, and some bad effects shots - mostly in Canto Bight and Crait - and of course their balooning running times.

 

Whatever it was, it still has nothing to do with the core themes of the film, and as a result it just doesn't do the film any favours. Of course,  there are also those who will begrudge this throwback to the prequels for that very reason: that they are throwbacks to the prequels.

[Score 770]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

after my research and online 'vibe' of the fans, can say with confidence that countless thousands (possibly millions) of people agree with me.

 

Please don't fall into this trap, Mattris... you cannot really make a statement like this, unless you can prove it! And to prove it, please show us countless thousands (possibly millions) of posts that support your thesis, and prove that they come from countless thousands (possibly millions) of different people (and not, for example, from 100 angry people, each one writing 10000 posts)!

 

Come on, the discussion had been so reasonable and constructive up to that moment!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else miss the credit "Produced by Rick McCallum"? He would have kept Rian Johnson in check.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

10 hours ago, Mattris said:

Han's reaction in ANH was "Ha, ha!" - not "I like this". And Rey is not Han.

Rey can be anyone she wants to be. Han's reaction is different from Rey's because then you'd be slashing TLJ for being too much like the original, with all your basis focused on that one line. Also, Han does go Yahoo! after blowing up a TIE Fighter and returning so Luke can blow this thing and go home.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Uh-oh new book coming out...

 

 

[John 2,032]

Mattris:

 

 

 

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

 

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, John said:

Mattris:

 

 

 

 

I would say this is an even appropriate example, given this particular user's fear of matriarchy:

 

[Demodex 557]

11 hours ago, Score said:

Come on, the discussion had been so reasonable and constructive up to that moment!

 

It has?

[crumbs 14,304]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:08 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

He pulls "leaks" out of his own ass

 

He should probably see a doctor about that.

[Mattris 416]

20 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Holdo is there to facilitate Poe's growth into a responsible leader, as well as to (of course) subvert expectations. Usually its the plucky, hands-on guy who's right and the stiff, distant authority figure that's wrong, but Rian Johnson - being Rian Johnson - said "psyche!" In this case, I would say her being a woman is more incidental than anything else. I still find the way he upstaged this trope to be mechanical and overwrought (given that he does it over and over and over again) but my issue isn't that Holdo's a woman.

 

I feel like Rose's monologues in Canto Bight (which I don't care for in the slightest) are there more to provide her with a sympathetic backstory than to act as social commentary outright. To be fair, the social commentary is certainly there but honestly, I'm more critical of the inclusion of an off-the-wall commentary of animal cruelty and arms trades.

 

Really, as long as its not a 50/50 cast (which it isn't), and as long as there aren't overt "leave me alone, I'm a strong independent woman, y'know!" (which there aren't), then the presence of female characters is fine by me.

 

Vice Admiral Holdo gave Captain/Lieutenant Poe absolutely no reason why she refused to tell him her plan to survive the dire situation they found themselves in. Did she even have a plan? We aren't told until deep into the film. The plan turned out to be Leia's... and was as follows: Travel at maximum (regular-engine) speed in hopes of reaching a planet millions of miles away - that contained an old Rebel base - before the Resistance fleet is completely wiped-out.

 

During this 'chase', Resistance ships were picked-off by enemy ships... ships with all remaining Resistance soldiers on-board. Leia and most of the senior leadership were blown-up and sucked into space... but the chase continued. The audience was told that the ships had enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump. All ships could have jumped at different trajectories in hopes of evading the the First Order... but the slow chase continued. Rose and Finn hyper-spaced away in a small ship... but the slow chase continued. Inexplicably, Holdo decided to stay with 'her' ship - the last remaining. When the landing transports exited the ship, they were promptly taken out one-by-one by enemy fire. Before all transport were destroyed, Holdo made the decision to hyperspace her large cruiser into the First Order capitol ship, sacrificing herself to cripple its fleet.

 

When the Resistance made it to the planet Crait, we learn that the last step of Leia's plan was to use the old equipment to call people/groups sympathetic to the Resistance cause and wait for them to respond, with hopes that they would immediately come to their aid to engage the First Order. No response. The surviving soldiers are dejected, having realized that they would likely all be killed... because the base didn't have a back door, sufficient weaponry, or ships with which to use to escape before the First Order arrives.

 

So after all this, I conclude that what was shown in the film would not 'facilitate growth into a responsible leader' because this 'plan' could not have been more foolish or insane. But I don't fault Holdo or Leia. I put the blame squarely where it belongs: on Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy.

 

Rose 'establishing a sympathetic backstory' is one thing. But she just expressed disgust at the apathetic, affluent, inhabitants of Canto Bight... before stealing race horses and riding them through the casino and city, in a deliberate effort to destroy private property. Some of the animals were surely injured or killed... and later rounded-up. With no place else to run, Finn says, "It was worth it... you know, to make them hurt". Rose: "No... (removes saddle) ... Now it's worth it." This scene - and most of Canto Bight, in general - practically broke the fourth wall.

 

No characters existing in TLJ for a social agenda? You have to be joking. Rose and Holdo needn't exist in TLJ - much less be featured - at the detriment of getting to know more about the already-established characters of Finn and Poe, who play second-fiddle to two strong female characters, who were 'beautifully written'... or so Kathleen Kennedy would like you to believe.

 

20 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Could the child slavery stuff be included to give it the resolution it didn't get in the prequels?

 

What was shown was factually not child slavery. They were 'child workers' for an animal racing stable.

 

16 hours ago, Score said:

Please don't fall into this trap, Mattris... you cannot really make a statement like this, unless you can prove it! And to prove it, please show us countless thousands (possibly millions) of posts that support your thesis, and prove that they come from countless thousands (possibly millions) of different people (and not, for example, from 100 angry people, each one writing 10000 posts)!

 

Come on, the discussion had been so reasonable and constructive up to that moment!

 

Obviously, I can't show you "thousands/millions of posts" complaining about fans' anger and frustration, but you can easily find them on Youtube and other sites. For now, my proof is Solo: a Star Wars film with the highest budget of any Star Wars project... and the first Star Wars film to be an utter financial failure... so much so, that even with home video sales, will likely will not make a profit for decades.

 

15 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Rey can be anyone she wants to be. Han's reaction is different from Rey's because then you'd be slashing TLJ for being too much like the original, with all your basis focused on that one line. Also, Han does go Yahoo! after blowing up a TIE Fighter and returning so Luke can blow this thing and go home.

 

Wrong. Rey is limited to what we are shown and written to be by the film-makers.

 

Once again, Rey is not Han. In ANH, Han had already shot and killed a bounty hunter literally 'under the table' when he destroyed TIE fighters. While Rey, in TFA, was shocked at killing a stormtrooper. And in TLJ, enraged while killing the guardsmen. Literally saying "I like this!" after killing enemy pilots to save her friends is not consistent with her character in the slightest. I can't believe you can't admit this.

[Demodex 557]

Do you nitpick every movie you see like this?  Or just this one?  Just curious.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

9 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What was shown was factually not child slavery stuff. They were 'child workers' for animal racing stable.

 

Ah okay, it was a holiday resort? Summer camp thing?

[Demodex 557]

Wait a minute.  How the hell can you tell they weren't slaves?  I didn't see them getting paid.  Basically we can't know whether they are or not.

[Mattris 416]

4 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Do you nitpick every movie you see this bad?  Or just this one?  Just curious.

 

No, just ones that contain a clear a social agenda... that disrespect the most popular film franchise in the world... the film-makers of which insult, accuse, and marginalize the fans without shame... and who companies' presidents get contracts extended for breaking a fandom and loosing money on a feature film.

[Demodex 557]

Oh.  Alright then.

 

So how did you know those kids weren't slaves?  They seemed pretty analogous to Anakin in TPM.

[John 2,032]

On 5/31/2018 at 3:15 AM, TGP said:

I want to see Indygirl beat Mattress to a pulp. 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

She'd just use her whip.

[Mattris 416]

5 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Oh.  Alright then.

 

So how did you know those kids weren't slaves?  They seemed pretty analogous to Anakin in TPM.

 

Official source:

https://www.starwars.com/databank/arashell-sar

"abandoned children working in the Canto Casino’s fathier stables"

 

Fan source:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canto_Bight

"Rose convinced the child worker Temiri Blagg to help them escape in return for giving him her Resistance ring."

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

38 minutes ago, Mattris said:

"Rose convinced the child worker Temiri Blagg to help them escape in return for giving him her Resistance cockring."

 

Wow maybe Mattris is right, this movie really did have an anti male agenda.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I don't fault Holdo or Leia. I put the blame squarely where it belongs: on Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy.

 

Kathleen Kennedy is the producer. She had nothing to with choices regarding character - that's entirely on Rian Johnson as the writer and director of this film. I think its quite clear from the content and style of the film that he was indeed given free reign.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Rose and Holdo needn't exist in TLJ - much less be featured - at the detriment of getting to know more about the already-established characters of Finn and Poe.

 

I don't know that too much thinking in the way of a social agenda went into the introduction of Rose and Holdo. Essentially, with every sequel you can't just keep following up on the same characters - you also have to introduce new ones. Even in something like The Two Towers, which is more of a "part two" than a traditional sequel, there was a point being made of introducing new characters.

 

And yes, there is a case to be made that the film is a failure by that standard, because - of the new characters, one had died and the other is really not that interesting.

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

 

Official source:

https://www.starwars.com/databank/arashell-sar

"abandoned children working in the Canto Casino’s fathier stables"

 

Fan source:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canto_Bight

"Rose convinced the child worker Temiri Blagg to help them escape in return for giving him her Resistance ring."

So, indentured servitude AKA slavery...

 

'Abandoned' and 'slave' aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Why else would children be working in the stables and then antagonized by what's clearly their slave master?

 

For fun?

 

Are they sado-masochists?

[Mattris 416]

I don't know... and don't care, to be honest. All I know is that Rose bribed the children so they would let out the animals... so she could use them to demolish the city, laughing all the way. SJW, anyone?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Why else would children be working in the stables and then antagonized by what's clearly their slave master?

 

 

The kids got threatened with a whip at the end. I work at an elementary school. This happens _all_ the time, the kids really appreciate the discipline and character-building this dynamic offers. 

 

Do please try to keep up with your opinions that are factually wrong, @Arpy.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Me: I liked TLJ.

 

Mattress: This is factually wrong.

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Kathleen Kennedy is the producer. She had nothing to with choices regarding character - that's entirely on Rian Johnson as the writer and director of this film. I think its quite clear from the content and style of the film that he was indeed given free reign.

 

I don't know that too much thinking in the way of a social agenda went into the introduction of Rose and Holdo. Essentially, with every sequel you can't just keep following up on the same characters - you also have to introduce new ones. Even in something like The Two Towers, which is more of a "part two" than a traditional sequel, there was a point being made of introducing new characters.

 

And yes, there is a case to be made that the film is a failure by that standard, because - of the new characters, one had died and the other is really not that interesting.

 

You're being naive if you think Kathleen Kennedy didn't approve of Johnson's story and script before the film went into production. No doubt she asked him to included strong women and have Luke Skywalker die.

 

But one could make the case that the film does not portray strong, 'beautifully-written' women. Quite the opposite:

 

- Rey seemed out of character and confused for most of the film.

- Leia's plan for the Resistance to escape the First Order was awful.

- Holdo seemed unreasonable with Poe.

- Rose tazed Finn, lectured him, and selfishly prevented him from making the ultimate sacrifice... which most likely could have bought Rey enough time to rescue the survivors... and kept Luke Skywalker from having to make the ultimate sacrifice.

- Captain Phasma came and went... again. (And in a deleted scene, killed four stormtroopers after they heard Finn's testimony regarding her deactivating the shields of Starkiller Base.)

 

I think someone already posted this video, made by a popular Star Wars Youtube channel. I believe its like/dislike ratio indicates, with relative accuracy, the divide of the fandom:

 

 

13 minutes ago, Norma's Corpse said:

Me: I liked TLJ.

 

Mattress: This is factually wrong.

 

Me: TLJ is a deliberately divisive film and objectively deficient in almost every major way (definitely not the score!). Lucasfilm employees are constantly insulting the fans, many of which will not support Lucasfilm at all until its leadership/writing personnel has changed and the film/show content has improved. But you can still like the film.

 

You: Maybe if we continue arguing with Mattris (while making fun of him), we'll eventually get him on something... which will make us feel better since he's made us realize what a crap film TLJ is.

[Score 770]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Obviously, I can't show you "thousands/millions of posts" complaining about fans' anger and frustration, but you can easily find them on Youtube and other sites.

 

No, I definitely cannot. And, as you just said, you cannot either. That's the point.

 

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

For now, my proof is Solo: a Star Wars film with the highest budget of any Star Wars project... and the first Star Wars film to be an utter financial failure... so much so, that even with home video sales, will likely will not make a profit for decades.

 

What does Solo have to do with TLJ? I liked TLJ more than many other entries in the franchise, while I could not stand a single scene in Solo. By the way, I am neither angry nor frustrated at all by this, and I am a bit worried that some people seem to be (or they think they are, which is almost the same thing). If I were you, I would check again the meaning of the word "proof". The words "proof" and "likely" do not go well together.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Matriss keeps demanding proof and evidence, but provides none himself. At best his interpretation of some numbers that may or may not have been reported.

 

Troll!

[Holko 9,499]

35 minutes ago, Mattris said:

- Rey seemed out of character and confused for most of the film.

 

I guess you mean that one line you're so hung up on for "out of charater". How is confused a flaw with the film? That's her plotline in the movie! She's looking for her place in the universe and, looking for guidence, puts her trust in people who fail her in different ways.

 

35 minutes ago, Mattris said:

- Leia's plan for the Resistance to escape the First Order was awful.

 

No it wasn't, it would've worked flawlessly if DJ hadn't overheard the (partial) plan on the comm.

 

35 minutes ago, Mattris said:

- Holdo seemed unreasonable with Poe.

 

You mean the guy who just got demoted fro his recklessness a few hours earlier?

I do admit Holdo's not written particularly great, and there would've been a very simple fix for that: make her suspect there's a traitor on board instead of beforehand unknown tracking technologies - Finn, a stormtrooper, seems a prime suspect, especially since he's nowhere to be found on the ship, and Poe's good mates with him. Great reason to be cautious and not tell him the plan, but she would've only told commanders, so we wouldn't have seen it in any scene. Leia could have expalined it on the transport, which would've been too big of an exposition dump.

 

35 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I believe its like/dislike ratio indicates, with relative accuracy, the divide of the fandom:

 

Let me emphasise the key thing here: I believe.

You have absolutely no proof that any random comment section is representative of a fandom. Hell, even on this video, only 12% of the people who watched it were negative enough to comment.

 

34 minutes ago, Mattris said:

which will make us feel better since he's made us realize what a crap film TLJ is.

[Arpy 4,145]

@Nick Parker At least I can be consistent in being wrong.

[Chen G. 3,944]

28 minutes ago, Holko said:

make her suspect there's a traitor on board

 

That's an excellent idea!

 

Plus it would have made the whole Canto Bight subplot unecessary!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But Canto Bight is the most original part of the film!

 

The first new concept they came up with for these new films.

[Holko 9,499]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Plus it would have made the whole Canto Bight subplot unecessary!

How? Only the highest circle would know the suspicion, Poe would still send Finn away which would add to it.

[Chen G. 3,944]

No. Have this happen and have Finn stay on the ship and see how he takes the accusation. Having joined the Resistance only to immediately be suspect of treachery? How will he deal with that? Will he prove it, as it were, by joining Poe's mutiny?

 

That's a much more interesting internal conflict than the one we got for Finn. Wait, did we get an internal conflict for him?

[Holko 9,499]

That could have ben beneficial for Finn, but if Canto Bight is lost, the whole message of inspiring hope in the little people instead of stupidly confronting the undefeatable war machine gets lost with it.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Its a stupid massage, anyway.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

These are issues the film needed to discuss.

[crumbs 14,304]

I think the message about the new generation of Force-users will have significance in the future, so it's hard to just rip that entire subplot out of the movie bleeding.

 

Holdo is actually proven correct by not telling Poe their real escape plan for most of the movie. As soon as Poe finds out he blabs it to Finn and Rose in earshot of a highly dodgy weirdo who, lo and behold, sells them out and spills the beans.

 

So arguably Poe's dumb plan started the chain reaction that ultimately killed most of the Resistance before they could reach Crait. If Finn and Rose never go on their mission, they never bring back DJ. With no DJ in the picture, Holdo's escape plan remains safely under wraps.

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

6 minutes ago, Holko said:

the whole massage of inspiring hope

 

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its a stupid massage, anyway.

 

You guys should try Thai! (or Swedish)

[Arpy 4,145]

I didn't like the way they handled the force-sensitive child or the nonsense on Canto Bight. Wasn't terrible, but it wasn't the focus of the film or story either.

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I think the message about the new generation of Force-users will have significance in the future, so it's hard to just rip that entire subplot out of the movie bleeding.

 

[Holko 9,499]

I think it's a crucial part of the movie, especially the end, transitioning to the now hopeful new generation from the otherwise almost pointlessly nonsensical "How do we rebuild the Rebellion from THIS?" "We have everything we need".

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, which is why I said I didn't like the way it was handled, not that it should be removed.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

I think it's a crucial part of the movie, especially the end, transitioning to the now hopeful new generation

 

But that's where the choice to make a film so thematically and stylistically distinct out of the middle chapter of a trilogy becomes so odd. I just can't see IX paying this thread off.

 

Johnson's concept for this film would have worked better as either the first or last episode in this trilogy - not as the middle chapter.

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, Score said:

No, I definitely cannot. And, as you just said, you cannot either. That's the point.

 

What does Solo have to do with TLJ? I liked TLJ more than many other entries in the franchise, while I could not stand a single scene in Solo. By the way, I am neither angry nor frustrated at all by this, and I am a bit worried that some people seem to be (or they think they are, which is almost the same thing). If I were you, I would check again the meaning of the word "proof". The words "proof" and "likely" do not go well together.

 

True, but saying it's "likely that Solo won't make $200M in home video sales for decades" is not a far-fetched statment.

 

Solo's failure at the box office is a direct result of TLJ (as a film) and the behavior of Lucasfilm towards the fans who were critical of it.

 

As far as a group of fans that are disenchanted/concerned with the Disney's Star Wars, I'll point you to Thor Skywalker's channel, in my mind, the most thoughtful and fair-minded Star Wars discussion channel on Youtube. If you want confirmation of many 'people like me' and want to know why I feel the way I do, watch these videos:

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Matriss keeps demanding proof and evidence, but provides none himself. At best his interpretation of some numbers that may or may not have been reported.

 

Troll!

 

What proof and evidence am I "demanding"? What proof do you want? I don't have access to Disney's bank statements. But I am aware that film studios receive approximately 60% of the box office revenue for their films. Tally up the totals for new SW films, multiply by 0.6 and subtract the production and (approx.) marketing budgets (at least $125M each). Then subtract $4.05B. The net of the films: approx. negative $2.85B. Home video disc sales total approximately $358M (not including Solo or pay-per-view sales). Toy deals (Hasbro) and Disney park sales? Unknown. But I'm sure the in production Galaxy's Edge park isn't cheap. Bottom line? Lucasfilm still has about $2B to go before they make a profit on their investment.

 

Stefancos, I can't be a troll in the topic that was created for me. Continuing to name-call only tells me that you're immature and don't deserve my respect, much less my time. Can we keep things civil, please?

 

2 hours ago, Holko said:

Let me emphasise the key thing here: I believe.

You have absolutely no proof that any random comment section is representative of a fandom.

 

You made some good points regarding the women in TLJ. I was merely posing as those who feel the women in the film weren't represented in a positive way.

You are right. But revenue and profit speak volumes. Are 'people like me' just a vocal minority? Russian bots? Alt-right trolls? Who knows? Does it matter? Not until Episode 9 rolls around, the box office tally of which will be the determining factor of the state of modern Star Wars and its leadership.

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

But Canto Bight is the most original part of the film!

The first new concept they came up with for these new films.

 

Did you forget about hyperspace tracking, hyperspace ramming as a weapon, a Jedi Master refusing to use the Force, Force communication across a great distance (with bonus feature: physical interaction!), and Force projection?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Solo's failure at the box office is a direct result of TLJ (as a film) and the behavior of Lucasfilm towards the fans who were critical of it.

 

Proof it!

[Arpy 4,145]

What does a film's box-office results say about one's enjoyment of the film? Mattris, you keep bringing up these numbers, but they don't mean anything, or at the very least they shouldn't inform one's opinion about the content of the film. Solo didn't do well financially, but that was down to a number of factors - poor marketing, production woes/bad press, and the fact it was released in a busy year against other films more likely to dominate the box-office.

 

Disney took a massive financial hit in 2015 with Tomorrowland which bombed so hard that they have almost tried to purge its existence from history (losses of $150m). That's a spectacular failure, Solo, on the other hand can afford to bomb. No one is losing sleep over this bullshit. 

[Chen G. 3,944]

16 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Solo, on the other hand can afford to bomb. No one is losing sleep over this bullshit. 

 

I don't know that I'd dismiss the significance of Solo's box office failure too lightly, though.