Star Wars Disenchantment

[A24 4,331]

That too! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Matriss hasnt actually "proven" his claims to the extent that he seems to believe, IMO. He's just stated them over and over.

 

JJ is a marketing genius, he will ensure Ep 9 will be a huge succes. Mark my words!

[publicist 4,643]

It's all rubbish, anyway. The world at large has more challenging problems than a silly movie series, as do people's lives (one hopes). It's only in the sad, empty world of deluded fans where there's this ridiculous, inflated significance of toy sales, corporate conspiracies and evil artists denying them their pleasure. If the unspeakable happens: SW Episode XYZ doesn't make a billion bucks....What does it prove, what does it matter? Exactly...nothing.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It proves that the Communists are out to destroy what we God-fearing Americans hold dear!

[crumbs 14,306]

Frankly, this is the only thing I have left to add:

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

13 minutes ago, Norma's Corpse said:

It proves that the Communists are out to destroy what we God-fearing Americans hold dear!

 

Ssssshhh...your life now might be in grave danger! #chemtrails

[Chen G. 3,949]

I don't know what's the more hilarious of the two claims. This:

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I stand by my prediction that the film won't reach $1B worldwide.

 

or this:

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I deny that IX will "be a box-office juggernaut". Unless [...]a public apology is issued to the fans from Disney/Lucasfilm.

 

Come on, Mattris, you make some good arguments: these aren't two of them.

[John 2,032]

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

Facts and logic like that nonsense CNBC article you linked? Once Bob Iger realizes that Kathleen Kennedy is incapable of running Lucasfilm, he’ll let her go and she’ll be out of our hair forever. 

 

 

So what's your assessment of the state of Lucasfilm and Star Wars? How are they "doing a fine job"? What do you make of the backlash and utter failure of Solo?

 

The prequel films were well-intentioned and made by the creator of Star Wars. They may have been disappointing to many fans - but did not 'ruin the franchise'. And George Lucas did not allow his employees to publicly insult people.

 

We have a over a year until Episode IX is released. I concede that many events can transpire between now and then. (Disney has yet to crank up the marketing machine for IX.) But I can tell you that A LOT of fans are majorly upset at what is happening to Star Wars. And that doesn't bode well for a franchise that should be printing money.

 

Do you have friends?

[crumbs 14,306]

It's scientifically proven that masturbation makes angry people feel relaxed and lowers blood pressure.

 

Maybe Mattris just needs to masturbate more regularly!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, crumbs said:

It's scientifically proven that masturbation makes angry people feel relaxed and lowers blood pressure.

 

Maybe Mattris just needs to masturbate more regularly!

 

Just like The Shape of Water lady!

[crumbs 14,306]

Wait... ladies masturbate?! Discussing that is inappropriate!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

TFA's cool factor soon wore-off. After TLJ, TFA is now meaningless to many.

TFA cannot be meaningless. It's the beginning of the story. It's essential to the trilogy.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

The fact that Episode IX will be a 'third entry' does not concern me. I, like many fans, simply don't have confidence in the film-makers. Why should we?

It's also the last entry of the saga, the last one even just the common person might see. Everything else after IX is for people like me.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I stand by my prediction that the film won't reach $1B worldwide. And if it matches TLJ's gross, I'll eat my hat.

Looks like you should be asking for a new hat next Christmas.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Those who noticed TFA was a re-hash of ANH were quick to defend the film and speak only about the positive things? You are simply incorrect about that. After the un-original story, the rather pitiful death of Han Solo, and lack of explanation regarding Rey ("when J.J was the director"), fans had reason to be wary with the series moving forward. Their worst fears were realized with TLJ. For many, hope is gone. The result is that Disney is missing out on billions in potential revenue. New blood is needed in leadership positions... ASAP.

I don't remember anyone defending TFA really. People just liked it. 

 

The fact that Star Wars is this pivotal to you is really shocking to me. Even I, who I would think to be the fanatic, do not even invest this much in it. I really do question where your priorities in life lie and what your reason is for being on the forum. Is it the most suitable board for your rhetoric? I must say it has been certainly interesting, albeit ludicrous, to read your posts. They are a source of humour occasionally. However, they are a sullen reminder of just how damn messed up the world is right now. Are we really talking about this right now? Are we really doing this? I can grasp that you don't want to see any more movies, I cannot stand with your reasons, and I do not see how your actions are in any way making a difference. The "fans" may be a voice but at the end of the day Lucasfilm makes the decisions. I feel like the TLJ bashers are actually a minority in the fan-base. The only thing is that you're bombastic and the masses are not as verbally present in the way that you folks are. If people who liked TLJ were up in arms right now with as loud a voice as you, the Internet would explode. You need to face the facts that the haters are pretentious and only appear to be of greater number and outweigh in dislike the love of others. That's not true. I do not know a single soul personally who has seen TLJ and dislikes it. Some will say it's not their favourite, it's not the best, etc. But I don't know anyone that plain and simple has strong and visible resentment for it. So maybe the reason why you aren't seeing any changes in the franchise is because that's not what majority of fans want. I cannot say for sure, but it does seem like the only category where you outrank the fans who liked TLJ is voice, which is unfortunately annoying for all of us.

 

So Mattris, I ask you to make some popcorn and watch SW '77 this afternoon. May you find peace with that.

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

It's the beginning of the story. It's essential to the trilogy.

 

Tell that to The Phantom Menace.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

Tell that to The Phantom Menace.

Comparing Prequels to Sequels are we? 

 

It's still the first movie of the trilogy, it's still part of the story, it's still a thing. My point was that @Mattris's use of the word meaningless was a hyperbole. TFA is not meaningless.

 

Now TPM is not meaningless, it just isn't good. TFA is pretty good, it's just that it's like something we've kind of seen before. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Now TPM is not meaningless,

 

It is. You can start watching the series with Attack of the Clones and not miss a beat.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It is. You can start watching the series with Attack of the Clones and not miss a beat.

Chen, you can start off with SW '77 and skip the Prequels and not miss a beat. Some people have started with TFA and haven't missed a beat.

 

I think unnecessary is the proper word, rather than meaningless. Meaningless seems a little blown out of proportion. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Just now, The Illustrious Jerry said:

you can start off with SW '77 and skip the Prequels and not miss a beat.

 

That's different. But, to speak to your original point, you can't watch The Last Jedi without The Force Awakens - it opens mere minutes after it. So yes, The Force Awakens is necessary, and its a good film (the best Disney produced thus far, I would say).

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Thank you for your resolution. I don't like starting off my day in a bout with you!  You have strong points and you speak well.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

23 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Wait... ladies masturbate?! Discussing that is inappropriate!

 

I remember on the TF.N Jedi Council forums almost 20 years ago, even the word "masturbate" was a taboo you could be banned for using in any context. Instead, you had to substitute it with "masticate", and you'd be fine.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

36 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Wait... ladies masturbate?! Discussing that is inappropriate!

Why? Bonnie Bedelia did it in PRESUMED INNOCENT.

I'd say it's a perfectly natural thing for a woman to do.

[crumbs 14,306]

Blasphemy!

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go visit PornHub.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Is there a Shape of Water themed video there...?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

You can start off with A Nightmare on Elm Street, watch all of them except Dream Master and Freddy’s Dead, and not miss a beat! 

[Bespin 8,480]

Just now, kaseykockroach said:

You can start off with A Nightmare on Elm Street, watch all of them except Dream Master and Freddy’s Dead, and not miss a beat! 

 

Just watch I, III and Wes Craven's New Nightmare, the Nancy Trilogy.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Dream Child is awesome, and Freddy’s Revenge is compellingly weird.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I watch all of them. I'm a big Freddy fan.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

1 minute ago, Norma's Corpse said:

I watch all of them. I'm a big Freddy fan.

Hey, two bad movies out of seven ain’t a half-bad track record!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

34 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

Dream Child is awesome, and Freddy’s Revenge is compellingly weird.

Kasey, I think you mean A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 5: THE DREAM CHILD.

DREAM CHILD is a completely different film.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

[Demodex 557]

Damn, I missed a lot today it seems. 

 

I love that maybe 1 person here agrees with Mattris but he still believes he must be right. 

 

@Mattris, I hope your hat is edible because I want to see a video of you eating it. 

 

 

14 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Even Birth by Sleep?

 

What???

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Aqua is queen. ❤️ 

[Mattris 416]

On 11/3/2018 at 7:22 AM, Stefancos said:

Proof it!

 

I'd just be directing you to YouTube channels in which their videos' comments sections would be filled with disappointed Star Wars fans. Are they all Russian bots? Who knows.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 7:33 AM, Stefancos said:

The fact that star Wars is still discussed so much is proof of the opposite, I wager.

 

No. We're stunned that Star Wars has taken such a bad turn... and are confirming our observations... and attempting to spread the word and open peoples' eyes.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 7:36 AM, Stefancos said:

Matriss hasnt actually "proven" his claims to the extent that he seems to believe, IMO. He's just stated them over and over.

 

JJ is a marketing genius, he will ensure Ep 9 will be a huge succes. Mark my words!

 

What haven't I proven?

 

Don't think for a second that Ep 9 will have the buzz around it that Ep 7 did. Far too much damage has been done between the films for me to think that Ep 9 being a huge success is assured. TFA ushered in the feeling "that Star Wars is back!" Ep 9 has such a mountain to climb, and I don't think it will make the summit... and will simply fall down... unless things significantly change between now and then.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 7:48 AM, publicist said:

It's all rubbish, anyway. The world at large has more challenging problems than a silly movie series, as do people's lives (one hopes). It's only in the sad, empty world of deluded fans where there's this ridiculous, inflated significance of toy sales, corporate conspiracies and evil artists denying them their pleasure. If the unspeakable happens: SW Episode XYZ doesn't make a billion bucks....What does it prove, what does it matter? Exactly...nothing.

 

"Denying them their pleasure" would mean making no Star Wars films. But Disney is pumping out films - and other 'content' - at an astronomical rate. That's not necessarily an issue, except that the content is lacking in gravitas. At this point, it just seems like Disney's film and marketing divisions are part of an entertainment machine, not really caring about how the content makes people feel... and why the customer would want to come back for more after being misled or disappointed.

 

If SW Episode XYZ doesn't make a billion bucks, it proves that Disney failed. Does it matter? Only to the Disney shareholders... and hundreds of millions of people who expected so much more from the biggest entertainment franchise in the world. Fans got emotional and excited in hopes of seeing Luke, Han, and Leia together on screen one more time... only to be let down... and then insulted.

 

Shrugging off 'the Star Wars issue' as 'nothing really matters' is getting a bit philosophical, isn't it?

 

On 11/3/2018 at 9:27 AM, John said:

Do you have friends?

 

Do you have answers to any of the questions I asked you over the last few pages... regarding that sad CNBC article? Attempting to bring my personal life into the conversation only makes you look more pathetic.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 9:45 AM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

TFA cannot be meaningless. It's the beginning of the story. It's essential to the trilogy.

 

It's also the last entry of the saga, the last one even just the common person might see. Everything else after IX is for people like me.

 

Looks like you should be asking for a new hat next Christmas.

 

I don't remember anyone defending TFA really. People just liked it. 

 

The fact that Star Wars is this pivotal to you is really shocking to me. Even I, who I would think to be the fanatic, do not even invest this much in it. I really do question where your priorities in life lie and what your reason is for being on the forum. Is it the most suitable board for your rhetoric? I must say it has been certainly interesting, albeit ludicrous, to read your posts. They are a source of humour occasionally. However, they are a sullen reminder of just how damn messed up the world is right now. Are we really talking about this right now? Are we really doing this? I can grasp that you don't want to see any more movies, I cannot stand with your reasons, and I do not see how your actions are in any way making a difference. The "fans" may be a voice but at the end of the day Lucasfilm makes the decisions. I feel like the TLJ bashers are actually a minority in the fan-base. The only thing is that you're bombastic and the masses are not as verbally present in the way that you folks are. If people who liked TLJ were up in arms right now with as loud a voice as you, the Internet would explode. You need to face the facts that the haters are pretentious and only appear to be of greater number and outweigh in dislike the love of others. That's not true. I do not know a single soul personally who has seen TLJ and dislikes it. Some will say it's not their favourite, it's not the best, etc. But I don't know anyone that plain and simple has strong and visible resentment for it. So maybe the reason why you aren't seeing any changes in the franchise is because that's not what majority of fans want. I cannot say for sure, but it does seem like the only category where you outrank the fans who liked TLJ is voice, which is unfortunately annoying for all of us.

 

So Mattris, I ask you to make some popcorn and watch SW '77 this afternoon. May you find peace with that.

Why is TFA "essential" to the story of the sequel trilogy?

 

Ep 9 will be the last entry of the saga. But "just the common" people won't make the film a financial success. Disney needs the vast majority of fans onboard. If "everything else after IX is for people like" you and the fans, what a Disney's LFL will be in serious trouble and will likely have to scale back production on many fronts.

 

I'll see what I need to add to my Christmas list. The bare minimum for now: an absolutely superb Ep 9.

 

People were extremely excited for TFA and enjoyed the film initially. But people soon realized that it was unoriginal with thinly-written characters and too many unanswered questions... and its luster wore off. The next installment in the saga didn't help. 

 

Star Wars is not "pivotal" to me. But it goes without saying that I am beyond disappointed that Disney would think what they're doing would be enough to garner a new wave of fans and make the franchise healthy and profitable into the future. But they underestimated the passion and intelligence of the old/traditional fan-base... who have largely abandoned Disney Star Wars. And that's the problem... I'm not investing in it. Contributing to a message board and watching Youtube videos makes no money for Disney/LFL. Since TLJ, I haven't bought any Star Wars or Disney products.

 

No need to question my "priorities in life". This is the Star Wars Disenchantment forum. What are you doing here? What's "ludicrous" is your dismissal of the lack of quality and continuity in the Disney Star Wars films which "are a sullen reminder of just how damn messed up the world is right now." What a predicament in which Disney/LFL currently finds themselves... due only to their own misguided agenda and poor story-telling strategy. Blaming the fans will get them nowhere but backwards.

 

I agree, it's shocking that the fans are split and arguing. You may not agree with my "reasons" but my "actions are ... making a difference" because dozens of people have read my posts and are communicating with me.

 

While Disney owns Lucasfilm, I suppose you can say "Lucasfilm makes the decisions". But at the end of the day, the fans are a voice and can choose whether or not to pay for the product that is offered. The fans' choices next year will determine the future of Lucasfilm.

 

That's just it, the "people who liked TLJ" aren't "up in arms right now with as loud a voice as" the disenchanted because the film contains little to celebrate or love. The Internet has exploded in disappointment. You need to face the facts that the "haters" have good reason to hate and can make a difference. They have already proven their resolve (Solo's massive financial failure). Where you do "fans who liked TLJ" outrank those you didn't? Sorry, we are "annoying" you, but we're just calling it as we see it... and you don't have to read about our issues or converse with us.

 

You not knowing anyone "personally who has seen TLJ and dislikes it" is irrelevant to the bigger picture. "Changes in the franchise" will happen when "majority of fans" stand together and skip Disney Star Wars until they - and the franchise - start being respected.

[John 2,032]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Do you have answers to any of the questions I asked you over the last few pages...

 

I do, actually. It's you who has long been purposely avoiding providing concrete answers to any of our questions by resorting to regurgitating the same old "Lucasfilm will pay!" and "TLJ haters are objectively a majority" crap.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Attempting to bring my personal life into the conversation only makes you look more pathetic.

 

Ironic that the one who is calling me pathetic is the same person who has bitched and moaned over the supposed betrayal of entitled fanboys for over five months now.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I feel like I'm the only one who isn't a fan of the third one. I didn't like that Nancy and her father died and all the gross wrist injuries.

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, John said:

I do, actually. It's you who has long been purposely avoiding providing concrete answers to any of our questions by resorting to regurgitating the same old "Lucasfilm will pay!" and "TLJ haters are objectively a majority" crap.

 

Ironic that the one who is calling me pathetic is the same person who has bitched and moaned over the supposed betrayal of SW fanboys for over five months now.

 

So... Where are your answers?

 

I don't know what you want me to "prove". I never said "TLJ haters are objectively a majority." But I do know that Star Wars is in desperate need of a course correction. Perhaps Lucasfilm has admitted just that.

 

FACT: TLJ broke the Star Wars fandom.

FACT: Solo lost ~$200 million.

FACT: Lucasfilm employees publicly insult people regarding their disapproval of the films... without apologies from the management.

FACT: Disney/LFL are producing films and other content in a free-market capitalistic society.

FACT: People can choose whether or not to buy their products.

 

I think it's obvious that an increasing number of people are choosing the later option. That's the worst news possible from Disney/Lucasfilm's perspective.

 

"Who's more foolish... the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Could it also be that Disney/LFL are mass producing so much junk merchandise that people are thinking twice about hoarding them all? People are more conscious of the available space in their homes these days.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

15 hours ago, publicist said:

It's all rubbish, anyway. The world at large has more challenging problems than a silly movie series, as do people's lives (one hopes). It's only in the sad, empty world of deluded fans where there's this ridiculous, inflated significance of toy sales, corporate conspiracies and evil artists denying them their pleasure. If the unspeakable happens: SW Episode XYZ doesn't make a billion bucks....What does it prove, what does it matter? Exactly...nothing.

 

 

Except it does matter because for a lot of people it will pay their bills, put food in their families mouths and otherwise ensure people's livelihoods. There is much more to its only a movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Movies just enable the overpopulation and the unfair distribution of wealth. They aren't a solution to our problems.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They must be stopped.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

28 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 FACT: TLJ broke the Star Wars fandom.

 

Proof this, because I see no evidence of it.

[justaguy 68]

20 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Proof this, because I see no evidence of it.

I didn't watch Solo and am not going to watch any more Star Wars movies because of TLJ, unless some talented screenwriters take charge and I get recommendations from friends and other sources I value. Not sure if I was "the fandom" in the past, but I sure am not right now.

 

Consider me a very small, living proof. Unless you mean something else by "breaking the fandom".

 

P.S. Can't wait for new Williams soundtrack and enjoyed Powell's work on Solo very much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

See, that's not what proof is at all.

[Mattris 416]

42 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Proof this, because I see no evidence of it.

 

You see no evidence? You can't be serious.

 

Since a world-wide 'Star Wars Satisfaction' poll doesn't exist, you'll never have absolute "proof". The majority of comments under countless Star Wars articles of every mainstream website - as well as thousands of Youtube videos/channels - are written by seriously displeased Star Wars fans. Can you find any articles from mainstream websites with the majority comments from pleased Star Wars fans?

 

Oh, and let's not forget that Solo grossed less than 40% of what Rogue One managed... and bottom-line, lost a ton of money. If this isn't proof enough, I can't help you.

 

Will Ep. 9 making less than a billion dollars be enough proof for you?

 

I challenge you to present evidence that proves that the Star Wars fandom is united.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

A lot of fans didn't like the latest 007 movie. Does that make the fandom "broken"?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It doesn't.

 

And the box office numbers of Bond and Star Wars aren't solely dictated by "fans".

 

Ep 9 will make loads of money, because "regular" movie goers will flock to see it.

[publicist 4,643]

2 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

Except it does matter because for a lot of people it will pay their bills, put food in their families mouths and otherwise ensure people's livelihoods. There is much more to its only a movie.

 

What has that got to do with an out-of-control fandom shy of death threats?

[Demodex 557]

The anticipation for Episode 9 is way different from that for Solo. Saying Episode 9 will fail because Solo didn't pull in fantastic numbers is being naive. 

 

People hated the prequels and they still made a ton of money (I assume, I don't follow box office numbers).  Episode 9 will be successful. I know quite a few people that didn't go see Solo but will see Episode 9 for multiple reasons I've expressed already in this thread. 

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

 

You see no evidence? You can't be serious.

 

Since a world-wide 'Star Wars Satisfaction' poll doesn't exist, you'll never have absolute "proof". The majority of comments under countless Star Wars articles of every mainstream website - as well as thousands of Youtube videos/channels - are written by seriously displeased Star Wars fans. Can you find any articles from mainstream websites with the majority comments from pleased Star Wars fans?

 

You're making the claim, and you just refuted yourself!

[Mattris 416]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

And the box office numbers of Bond and Star Wars aren't solely dictated by "fans".

 

Ep 9 will make loads of money, because "regular" movie goers will flock to see it.

 

Please define "make loads of money". Keep in mind the total gross isn't broken down by "regular" movie goers and "fans".

 

Do you still see no evidence that TLJ broke the Star Wars fandom? Be honest.

 

I just told you that the majority of comments under countless Star Wars articles of every mainstream website - as well as thousands of Youtube videos/channels - are written by seriously displeased Star Wars fans. Go see for yourself. Can you find any articles from mainstream websites with the majority comments come from pleased Star Wars fans?

 

Once again, I challenge you to present any evidence proving that the Star Wars fandom is largely united.

 

4 hours ago, publicist said:

What has that got to do with an out-of-control fandom shy of death threats?

 

You can't convict someone because you think they thought about threatening someone. And why are you calling the Star Wars fans "out-of-control". No matter how much they might want to, Disney/LFL can't control us. They have serious work to do to right their Star Wars ship... that crashed into an iceberg of their own making.

 

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

The anticipation for Episode 9 is way different from that for Solo. Saying Episode 9 will fail because Solo didn't pull in fantastic numbers is being naive. 

 

People hated the prequels and they still made a ton of money (I assume, I don't follow box office numbers).  Episode 9 will be successful. I know quite a few people that didn't go see Solo but will see Episode 9 for multiple reasons I've expressed already in this thread. 

 

I didn't compare Solo's box office tally to the saga films. It grossed less than 40% of the other spin-off film. Did only 40% of fans and general public turn out? Perhaps only the fans saw it... or only the general public? Who can say? But this pitiful showing is indicative of a serious problem with the Star Wars movie-going public. Brushing off this fact and assuming people will turn out in droves for IX "is being naive".

 

For every reason you've expressed people will support Episode 9, I've expressed a dozen to the contrary.

 

3 hours ago, Arpy said:

You're making the claim, and you just refuted yourself!

 

The proof that TLJ broke the fandom can be found in reality (Solo) and across the internet. Would posting thousands of links (showing comments from disenchanted fans) prove the situation?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Solo's failure has other roots than TJL i think. The fact that it cost too much, no one was waiting for it, the month of release.

 

The "fans" didn't turn TFA into a huge hit. You don't pull 2 billion just from its "fans". The regular public ate it up. 

 

Matriss doesn't use logic very well. Perhaps his anger blinds him.